Unless its propaganda from these news articles, it seems like the reffrendum will pass and the name (and everything else) will be changed.

[QUOTE=Big Bad Sven;176229]Unless its propaganda from these news articles, it seems like the reffrendum will pass and the name (and everything else) will be changed.[/QUOTE]

According to that Guardian article I posted, “Western diplomats” are saying that even if the referendum doesn’t reach the required 50% quota for it to be valid, a positive outcome for a “yes” vote gives the government a mandate to implement the agreement.

Unless there is some kind of uprising, this agreement will be implemented. The Plebiscite is irrelevant, the only opportunity it provides is for the people to make a statement, and with that, hopefully inspire them to make a stand.

We are still talking about this?

This is settled, its happening, that has been apparent since about a month or so after the announcement.

Any one who still gives a shit should focus their energy on what next. Through LOMA we have tried toiled over and tried various approaches to try and organize some kind of resistance tot his, and the end result is the same it always is with Macedonians, a complete waste of time and energy.

You guys wouldn't believe the level of idiocy expressed in some of the private conversations we have had with big players involved in the "resistance".

I will tell you all right here right now, there is no conspiracy here, no shocking developments, just plain old naivety, lack of organization, lack of intellectual capacity, and stubbornness. We are a useless people, and that has never been more clear to me than in these past few months while trying to get something done.

This is what happens when too many people subscribe to this post Trump anti reality movement. You can't come up with real life solutions if you live in an alternate reality.

Macedonians firmly live in their own reality, where all norms and common sense have no bearing.

As always most Macedonians who are publicly involved are more concerned with maintaining their own little pocket of influence, and being able to claim credit for even losing initiatives, rather than actually accomplishing anything.

Macedonians are willing to listen to and do anything other than the truth and the right thing. Our lack of morality, and intellectual seriousness has finally led to our demise.

Our self inflicted demise should serve as a stark warning and example to all those alternative fact lovers in the USA and Europe who find comfort in creating their own realities. Macedonia was ahead of the curve in this regard, for decades peddling anything but the truth, until eventually we lost our ability to identify the truth even when we desired it. This is exactly what happens when you peddle bullshit for too long, you eventually start to believe your own bullshit.

I'm certain that today, and even 20,30,50 years from now, the same bullshit will be circulated. The stories of grand conspiracy that forced our little nation into submission. At least I will be able to say, I was there, I saw it unfold with my own eyes behind the scenes, and it was 100% our own fault.

Nuclear weapons will be a thing of the past. In the information age, information warfare will be the order of the day. Think, the holy wars + twitter. You could always get people to believe anything, but it took effort and a lot of force, now you just tweet shit twice a day for a while, and you eventually harness an army of brain dead zombies.

Never underestimate the destructive potential when you combine Arrogance with Ignorance.

[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;176236]According to that Guardian article I posted, “Western diplomats” are saying that even if the referendum doesn’t reach the required 50% quota for it to be valid, a positive outcome for a “yes” vote gives the government a mandate to implement the agreement.

Unless there is some kind of uprising, this agreement will be implemented. The Plebiscite is irrelevant, the only opportunity it provides is for the people to make a statement, and with that, hopefully inspire them to make a stand.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much this.

Its an even bigger reason for all macedonians to come out and vote no to the name change.

I have gotten into arguments with geniuses who on social media who think boycotting the reffrendum will help us. As the article suggests even if less than 50% of the population doesnt vote they will still use the results of the reffrendum as ammo. It seems like the boycot 'strategy' is popular in macedonia.

It seems like history is repeating itself, the macedonian cause failing because of people not caring or people ignorant on what is happening.

I agree with Gocka, the name change will happen.

Sadly...... there are many citizens who would give away their identity for a free pen and cigarette lighter.

So this initiative by Zaev and co is a stroke of genius.

[img]https://vgy.me/DSvSpk.jpg[/img]

I should add that although it will likely be implemented in Macedonia (unless an uprising occurs), I don’t think the Greeks are finished with the agreement yet... I have a feeling there will be more demands to come... possibly from multiple parties

It still needs to be signed by the President, regardless if Zaev and Co try to present a failed referendum as a victory and mandate to continue.

It wont be signed and the deadline in the agreement will lapse.

[QUOTE=Rogi;176249]It still needs to be signed by the President, regardless if Zaev and Co try to present a failed referendum as a victory and mandate to continue.

It wont be signed and the deadline in the agreement will lapse.[/QUOTE]

I hope you're right Rogi...

What if Zaev and Co get it over the line by hook or by crook...then Ivanov would be forced to follow the will of the people.

The only way to avoid the hook or by crook scenario would be to boycott en masse...I think the push to encourage a large voter turn out is to legitimise the first stage of the referendum process and then the manipulation of the final 'result' can be easily achieved.

Keep dreaming if you think that they would go through all this trouble to let the signature of Ivanov be the deciding factor. His own party may end up helping oust him if needed.

[QUOTE=Rogi;176249]It still needs to be signed by the President, regardless if Zaev and Co try to present a failed referendum as a victory and mandate to continue.

It wont be signed and the deadline in the agreement will lapse.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't need to be signed by the President

PS:

It seems that VMRO-DPMNE will (finally) announce their position on the referendum tonight. According to sources, calling for a boycott is not being considered and discussed.
[url]https://fokus.mk/vmro-dpmne-vecherva-ke-go-kazhe-stavot-za-referendumot/[/url]