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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Giorikas 06-24-2009 01:02 PM

Republic or not is irrelevant for me. Maybe I like the Republic of Macedonia better then plain Macedonia, but that's details. In the end your or my opinion on that have zero impact. We're both nothing when it concerns this process.

Being brainwashed and all (even though I never went through the Greek educational system) it's the Macedonia part that bothers me more. But realistically, the new name will definately have Macedonia in it. Since you ask my opinion.. It's not even the fact that Macedonia will be included, it's more the blabla la Gruevski that gets on my Greek nerves. If that part could be somehow muted, and properly explained, then I think it would take the angle out for a large part.

I refer to a recent TV interview on A2 TV station with ex-Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski who made some very accurate statements. But ok, we can't discuss about that here. That would be illegal. Never mind that this is only your ex-PM and founder of VMRO-DPNME. Let me guess, the normal reaction here should be that he is a 'sell out'. Some things are very predictable.

Risto the Great 06-24-2009 06:22 PM

Jankovska, I am not sure it was described as a war in 2001.
Macedonia has had successive Governments that despise its Diaspora. "Nationalist fools" is a term I think they like to use for us. Meanwhile, they were at the time very much unable to shake of their communist upbringing. They felt like victims and wanted to go and cry to mother Jugoslavia for some comfort. They did not want our help, I can vouch for this.

During this time our local community raised money and donated funds directly to Macedonians in the troubled region. Only after verifying the effected people were not ethnic Albanians who pretended to be Macedonians. (And quite a few were)

So, I resent the suggestion that the Diaspora did nothing. In fact, the opposite was true but the Government was pushing us away very clearly. They gave the impression that they knew what they were doing. Instead they sold the country ... which was most likely what they hoped to achieve for personal gain.

This is why I get extremely annoyed at the UMD playing into the hands of the Government of Macedonia by giving them unearned respect. The Macedonian Diaspora (not UMD) clearly thinks the Government needs to be held accountable for anything which undermines the Macedonian identity. If the Government cannot be clear on its stance, the Macedonian Diaspora along with the people of Macedonia should bleed it out of them.

If the Macedonians in the Republic in 2001 were not so damn apathetic and of such a victim mentality, Macedonia would be years ahead of where it is now. Is that the Diaspora's fault?

Don't forget the Diaspora is full of people like me ... Egejci. What has the Republic done for me to welcome me? I have no knowledge of Serbian oppression whatsoever, I have a family history of Greek oppression. I should be excited about going to Macedonia so I can celebrate my Macedonian identity. What are the successive Governments doing about the Macedonian identity? I accept that an identity can change and evolve over time, however, it appears that poor baby Macedonia has been left to be raised by dogs like that poor little Russian girl.

Is the Republic too smart to listen to advice from its Diaspora ... apparently so. If I changed my name to Chris Miller and pretended to be a USA diplomat, they would drop their pants immediately.

Victims who need to grow balls .... it will be the name for Macedonia that I will lobby for if they ever sellout my identity. "VWN2GB"

Soldier of Macedon 06-25-2009 04:09 AM

He is a sellout, and a lying, manipulative fool. You share these characteristics. His comments were nowhere near accurate except for a baboon racist like yourselves, in which case it is music to the ears.
[QUOTE]We don't differentiate nazi style into 1st class ethnic Greeks and second class non ethnic Greek.[/QUOTE]
That is because in Greece the racists use census results based on religion yet paint these people as 'ethnic' Greeks to the rest of the world. Who are you trying to kid, you people are the biggest xenophobic idiots in the Balkans and probably the world, your census is testament to that, 99% Greek, 98% Greek, 97% Greek, whatever, you people are falisifying liars and the brainchild of Nazi ancestors and their mindset. Your racist state doesn't even allow its ethnic minorities to declare themselves openly, news for you moron, there ARE Macedonians and not "Greek Slavs", there ARE Turks and not "Greek Muslims", you can never win this argument, and the more you try, the more of an idiot racist you appear to be. True to form.
[QUOTE]But we're not distinguishing according to 'ethnic' lines. Now how is that racist ? It's the opposite. I guess you prefer the Nazi way. And indeed I noticed the support from ... a nazi.[/QUOTE]
Hang on a second - You will not allow the people of Greece to freely express their identity in full recognition and YOU FORCE them to have only one identity, while I on the other hand am advocating the freedom of expression of identity for the minorities of Greece - Who is the NAZI YOU RACIST XENOPHOBE?

I am not the internet warrior who slithers his way into a Macedonian forum and pretends to be 'objective' while at the same time unable to keep his racist filth on ice. Now answer my previous question you racist little prick,
[QUOTE]Your people didn't identify themselves as Greeks or Hellenes before their state was created by foreigners in the 19th century, Serbs are as 'Greek' as you, they too are from the 'Greek Church'. But that term means nothing to them in the real world. Just as the Macedonian term means nothing to modern Greeks in the real world. However, let's say, for arguments sake, that the Serbs chose to behave like idiots and deny the modern Greeks their name as it was a name used to refer to all Orthodox people.

Would you accept somebody else denying your people the right to identify as they choose? It doesn't matter what your reasons and responses are, nobody has the right to supress the identity of another people. What Greece is doing is racist, and what you are doing makes you a racist piece of scum, or a blind and stupid sheep. [/QUOTE]

[B]Would you accept somebody else denying your people the right to identify as they choose?[/B]

Giorikas 06-28-2009 12:31 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;18968]He is a sellout, and a lying, manipulative fool. You share these characteristics. His comments were nowhere near accurate except for a baboon racist like yourselves, in which case it is music to the ears.

That is because in Greece the racists use census results based on religion yet paint these people as 'ethnic' Greeks to the rest of the world. Who are you trying to kid, you people are the biggest xenophobic idiots in the Balkans and probably the world, your census is testament to that, 99% Greek, 98% Greek, 97% Greek, whatever, you people are falisifying liars and the brainchild of Nazi ancestors and their mindset. Your racist state doesn't even allow its ethnic minorities to declare themselves openly, news for you moron, there ARE Macedonians and not "Greek Slavs", there ARE Turks and not "Greek Muslims", you can never win this argument, and the more you try, the more of an idiot racist you appear to be. True to form.

Hang on a second - You will not allow the people of Greece to freely express their identity in full recognition and YOU FORCE them to have only one identity, while I on the other hand am advocating the freedom of expression of identity for the minorities of Greece - Who is the NAZI YOU RACIST XENOPHOBE?

I am not the internet warrior who slithers his way into a Macedonian forum and pretends to be 'objective' while at the same time unable to keep his racist filth on ice. Now answer my previous question you racist little prick,


[B]Would you accept somebody else denying your people the right to identify as they choose?[/B][/QUOTE]

He is someone who actually has the Macedonian nationality, actually lived there, and has achieved something politically. Unlike you in all cases. Who should I believe, you or him. By default everybody who does not agree with your views is a racist, a sell out, or paid off. The same old record over and over again. That's a very simplistic view.

Now answering your kindly asked question since I'm in a good mood. My identity is something that comes from within. I know what I am, and I don't really care what someone else might think of that. If I would be Greek holding an Albanian passport for example, then I really wouldn't care how the Albanian state considers me. After all there are always choices,I can leave and live somewhere else (like Greece) and give up my Albanian nationality. Now you seem to have difficulties to grasp the idea that Greece does not distinguish along ethnic lines, but that that doesn't matter. It's irrelevant anyway and it will not become an agenda point. Haven't you realized that by now? The only relevant question is what the future name is going to be of ROM. (with maybe a few stipulations added that some of those crazy kids on the other side of he border can not make any implicit or explicit territorial claims anymore).

Now answer my question Mr. Internet warrior. What did you achieve all these years, making all these silly demands as if you actually have any power to make demands. The opposite has happened, all seems to point towards a name compromise, which you will probably consider a defeat.

Risto the Great 06-28-2009 01:00 AM

Giorikas, all of Greece's actions have galvanised Macedonia. Don't you realise that Greece is Macedonia's best friend simply because its demands have been so utterly unreasonable that Macedonia has had no choice but to stand up and fight. You believe what you want, but Macedonia has never been more sure about this issue and Greece simply does not have a chance. What people like SoM (including myself) have done is express the will of Macedonians from around the world. this will is measured .... often. And it augurs well.

Whilst people like you even believe even believe the motley crew of ethnicities that (80 years ago) were shipped in from Turkey can be called Macedonians. The real Macedonians know who they are and don't need people with hidden agendas denying their identity.

Giorikas 06-29-2009 10:01 AM

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Risto the Great;19044]Giorikas, all of Greece's actions have galvanised Macedonia. Don't you realise that Greece is Macedonia's best friend simply because its demands have been so utterly unreasonable that Macedonia has had no choice but to stand up and fight. You believe what you want, but Macedonia has never been more sure about this issue and Greece simply does not have a chance. What people like SoM (including myself) have done is express the will of Macedonians from around the world. this will is measured .... often. And it augurs well.[/QUOTE]

I believe that giving a country an enemy has the effect you describe. So I agree with that part. I also believe that it doesn't matter whether that unified goal is valid or not.

[QUOTE]Whilst people like you even believe even believe the motley crew of ethnicities that (80 years ago) were shipped in from Turkey can be called Macedonians. The real Macedonians know who they are and don't need people with hidden agendas denying their identity.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Blablabla. Broken record Risto the Great style. These people are and were Greeks. Check with your good friends the Turks if you must, but it doesn't really matter what you think. Try reading a book called 'Istanbul' by Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk and you'll learn a thing or two about all that. Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

Now tell me Risto the Great. What have you concretely achieved all these years. Please enlighten me. Expressing your opnion is a means to a achieve a goal. It's not the goal in itself. Lol. 'Express the will of Macedonians around the world'..'measured' ... You really need a reality check my friend. You started believing in your own greatness.

makedonin 06-29-2009 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=Giorikas;19079] but it doesn't really matter what you think.
[/QUOTE]
Same goes for you, and still you are playing as if you have something to say, like in your comment here:

[QUOTE=Giorikas;19079]
Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.
[/QUOTE]

By default you say. I say your default is not mine or the worlds default. The very act that you perceive them shows that they are not what you perceive them to be, i.e. Macedonians.

In contrary to that, we didn't had the need to show off that we are Macedonians, but we simply were and are being Macedonians,
and if there weren't you and your wonnabe Turks, we wouldn't had any need to prove it or show it to the world, we'd just be what we are, Macedonians.

This Turk wonnabe "Macedonians" can't even come close to my Macedonian balls.

You know that and I know that, and they certainly know it, that is why they are so engaged in proving the opposite.

Giorikas 06-29-2009 11:19 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;19044]Giorikas, all of Greece's actions have galvanised Macedonia. Don't you realise that Greece is Macedonia's best friend simply because its demands have been so utterly unreasonable that Macedonia has had no choice but to stand up and fight. You believe what you want, but Macedonia has never been more sure about this issue and Greece simply does not have a chance. What people like SoM (including myself) have done is express the will of Macedonians from around the world. this will is measured .... often. And it augurs well.

Whilst people like you even believe even believe the motley crew of ethnicities that (80 years ago) were shipped in from Turkey can be called Macedonians. The real Macedonians know who they are and don't need people with hidden agendas denying their identity.[/QUOTE]

Ah, but then again, can't there be any truth in the observation that the Macedonian name issue is a political tool as this Macedonian politician states:

[url]http://www.makfax.com.mk/en-Us/Details.aspx?itemID=6198[/url]

Auch, political marketing even...:6:

Risto the Great 06-29-2009 08:16 PM

[QUOTE=Giorikas;19079]Blablabla. Broken record Risto the Great style. These people are and were Greeks. Check with your good friends the Turks if you must, but it doesn't really matter what you think. Try reading a book called 'Istanbul' by Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk and you'll learn a thing or two about all that. Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

Now tell me Risto the Great. What have you concretely achieved all these years. Please enlighten me. Expressing your opnion is a means to a achieve a goal. It's not the goal in itself. Lol. 'Express the will of Macedonians around the world'..'measured' ... You really need a reality check my friend. You started believing in your own greatness.[/QUOTE]
No worries Giorikas.
Read the following link:
[url]http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1529[/url]
Your people spoke Turkish when they arrived in Macedonia 80 years ago. They went to the Patriarchal church though if that helps you get through the night.

What have I concretely achieved? I guarantee that I have brought cockroaches like you out of the woodwork who genuinely believes that his points are reasonable. We have hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum and realise that the little game you are playing is filled with deceit and hidden agendas. Reasonable people will understand that Macedonians are not the problem. It is the people who call themselves Greek nowadays who are.

Again, you are not from (occupied) Macedonia, you were not educated there. I urge you to read the link above to discuss the purity of Greekness you crave for the region. I simply kept seeing Macedonian, Turks, Vlachs and Albanians. I know where we Macedonians were an overwhelming majority. I am sure they are Greeks now if that helps you sleep better.

What have you achieved for Greece lately?
[QUOTE]
Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you. [/QUOTE]
Good on you, you felt the need to use that rather unnatural descriptor "(Greek)" next to what everyone else understands by Macedonian. You have solved the name dispute my friend. Please tell mother Ellada.

For you a goat herding Turk from Anatolia is indeed more Macedonian than me. But you need to step forward 2000 years and smell the baklava.

Risto the Great 06-29-2009 08:37 PM

[QUOTE=Giorikas;19081]Ah, but then again, can't there be any truth in the observation that the Macedonian name issue is a political tool as this Macedonian politician states:

[url]http://www.makfax.com.mk/en-Us/Details.aspx?itemID=6198[/url]

Auch, political marketing even...:6:[/QUOTE]
Wow, an Albanian in Macedonia making a statement to undermine the ruling party politicians. This is unheard of in Greece .... mostly because the Albanians are Greek now.


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