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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Serdarot 01-10-2011 06:06 PM

what Vangelovski wrote about the people in Ohrid - Struga region i guess is corect.

i dont know many people who think they are bulgarians, but i know many who are simply addoring the "divine serbs"

unfortunately, even few members of my family can be counted between them. (actualy they are from my wife´s family, but we are family now... so it is my family...)

60 years of brainwashing have their results :(

Pelister 01-10-2011 09:09 PM

We are all doing something to defend our history, defend our rights and challenge the colonial propaganda of our neighbors and the ruthless suppression of our cultural identity. I'm not surprised that Macedonians could lose courage and heart. Because this Greek citizen (Gruevski) doesn't have a problem putting our political existence into real time play, exposing everything countless Macedonians have died for and suffered for over the last century, to a whim, or the stroke of a pen.

Pelister 01-10-2011 09:19 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;85620][B]Quite simply, a strong Macedonia would ensure this very real scenario by Vangelovski never happens. [/B]Conversely, a weak Macedonia will ensure the wishy washy misery of Macedonian "questionism" will continue indefinitely. My fear is that there won't be enough time to get strong before the name is sold by some pigs.

Let it be said, the bizarre relationship with Serbia via Yugoslavia is something that is foreign to Egejci and the single biggest divide between the 2 largest groups of Macedonians.[/QUOTE]

That is what I want to see more than anything. I want to see a strong State which means strong centralized control, and a government developing Christian Macedonian villages in the region, so that they hold onto their territory.

Over the last decade they have brought about the opposite of that. They have been decentralizing power, devolving control and jurisdiction to create an 'open society', but the phrase 'open society' is just a euphamism of sorts for Federalization along ethnic lines. The government is only creating enormous trouble down the road with the Albanians by giving them so much autonomy. I havn't seen them do anything to remove the cause of the problem - Albanian separatism.

Prolet 01-10-2011 10:20 PM

Ljubanec, Dont be so sure about that, look at the date it was just before the break up of SFRJ. If Macedonia was so pro Serbian then nobody would be chanting that sort of stuff, im not suggesting there arnt Srbomani in Stari Kraj because there are, but they are mainly in the Kumanovo region and some are around Skopje and other cities within Macedonia. The Komiti-Chkembari fighting is just about rivalry you get that in every country in the world from Europe,Asia,Africa,South America even Australia, this was totally different it was at a period where tensions were brewing and nobody knew what was going to happen.

Who do you think Johan Tarculovski is and where does he come from? Who do you think fought in the 2001 conflict in Ljubanci and Ljuboten? In Tetovo there was mainly Vojvodi from the Macedonian side.

Makedonetz 01-13-2011 09:48 PM

No progress in name talks despite frequent meetings between Papandreou and Gruevski -
 
Athens, 13 January 2011 (MIA) - No substantial progress has been made in the Greece-Macedonia name talks in spite of frequent meetings held between countries' premiers - George Papandreou and Nikola Gruevski, Greek daily "Kathimerini" reports Thursday.

Furthermore, "Eleftherotypia" newspaper reports that the National Council on Foreign Policy at a session on Tuesday had reached a conclusion that Greece would not allow its northern neighbour to join EU and NATO if a mutually acceptable name solution was not found.

Greek media report that the new round of name talks scheduled by mediator Matthew Nimetz with countries' name representatives on Feb. 9 in New York comes after a long period of complete stagnation of the UN-brokered process. Mediator's upcoming meeting with the negotiators has been postponed twice, since it was originally scheduled on Jan. 10 and then on Jan. 27, it has been reported. ba/fd/13:09


When will the ride stop of lies and BS

Soldier of Macedon 01-13-2011 09:54 PM

What a waste of time and money. And this Nimitz character has the best job in the world - doing absolutely nothing - and getting paid handsomely for it.

Makedonetz 01-13-2011 10:09 PM

oh it gets better SOM :thumbdown:

[i]Government continues harmonising Macedonian laws with EU's[/i]

The Government in 2011 plans to prepare 62 EU-related laws and over 400 by-laws. In 2010, the Government developed 106 laws - which in most part have been enacted by the Parliament - and adopted approximately 250 by-laws. 2010 is one of the most successful years with respect to harmonising Macedonian legislation with EU's and the same dynamics will be maintained, said Vice Premier in charge of European affairs, Vasko Naumovski, on Wednesday.

It appears these people are slowly driving our country into the brick wall of the EU head first!.

Bill77 01-15-2011 05:00 AM

Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist
 
[B][SIZE="4"]Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist[/SIZE][/B]

Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.

- Andreas Papandreou with the Interim Agreement and all steps taken during the Karamanlis and even the present Government, in reality are steps to buy time. Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.

"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.

Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras!

Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions..

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated.

Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!!

The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.

- The Balkans have a tendency that one is good, and that's usually us, the others are bad and the rest are boring. In our case, the ugly can be Nimetz, the mediator in this dispute - says Elina Makri, a coordinator of Athens CafeBabel.

The debate was organized by CafeBabel in Athens, with the hope to educate Europe's youth about the dispute with Macedonia. The debate will be translated into numerous languages and sent to all Cafebabel members.

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/[/url]



Well there is so much to dissect and comment on this. Anyone wants to take the floor first?

Soldier of Macedon 01-15-2011 05:11 AM

A clear admission of their intent. All we want is recognition as Macedonians, while they want us to be non-existent as Macedonians. Even an idiot can see (aside from Nimitz being the 'ugly') - who is the good, and who is the bad.

Bill77 01-15-2011 06:06 AM

A clear admission indeed SOM.
" Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist" according to Greek experts. We've known this all along. The world has known this all along. But they (world) have been playing stupid. How much longer are they going to play dumb now.


I just want to High-lite some parts of the entire article that i find interesting and gradually give an opinion.

[QUOTE] Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist.......
Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.[/QUOTE] Bloody Natzis.
I might sound hypocritical, but the Balkans would be a better place if these Maggots cease to exist instead.


[QUOTE] Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.......

now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance (Agree to a complicated name) other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it [/QUOTE]If the current Macedonian government are ready to concede, why do Greece think the opposite compared to the majority of the members here? Would it be wise by Greece to shut up and not stir the pot if Macedonia was close to giving up on the name?

[QUOTE] Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras! [/QUOTE] Gligorov should not be breathing now.

Re Samaras, talk about mixed emotions. I don't know if he should be thanked or spat on. Well in this case, Thank you Mr Samaras.....excuse me while i step outside and vomit now.

[QUOTE] Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions.....

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.....

- I only want to say we are wrong...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated. [/QUOTE] Are the public starting to realize and accept the inevitable?




And my favorite part,
[QUOTE] - All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!! [/QUOTE]Well said by this brave Macedonian. :clap:
I would have loved to hear there response.


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