Mastika, it seems that we just pick money off the evergrowing and fruitful money tree. Many dont understand the concept of hard work, my parents generation would work 2 jobs to provide for their families, not to amass wealth,but to provide for them as they had the opportunity to do so. They had a strong work ethic, and many killed themselves from working themselves so hard with physical conditions like heart attacks etc from not resting
Sometimes I wonder whether the unemplyment rate may have a large margin of citizens that have no work ethic , nor pride in themselves. I know it sounds harsh, but many expect handouts while they have their designer goods, the younger generation mentality should be changed

[QUOTE=Mastika;63609]We are our own worst enemy,[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=bill77;63609]And you can talk :whistling:[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Mastika;63614]I would never vote for a name change.[/QUOTE]

Who's talking about a name change? There are other ways of stabbing Macedonians in the back or being our worst enemy and you know perfectly well what i meant.

[QUOTE=Bill77;63622]Who's talking about a name change? There are other ways of stabbing Macedonians in the back or being our worst enemy and you know perfectly well what i meant.[/QUOTE]

Bill, I know very well what you are talking about, and frankly I'm not going to play along with these pointless mind games.

Hopefully our kids can remember what our past generations did for Macedonian identity. The next generation is important as they are the future, and hopefully the politics listens to the people crying for not a change to our culture and history.

:macedonia

even tho the outcome of te referendum is a worry,the referendum itself is the suicide. A referendum means people are happy to vote for a name change,to vote even tho it's their human right.means people are asked to vote on who they are.they don't need to do that,they know who they are.this is a neverending game that we must pull out off.people should go out and take the gov down,establish a new,peoples gov,one that will have the balls tostop all this bullshit.this is a great time to do that,greecd is sinking in debt,the eu finally saw through them.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;63547]It is extremely common for Diaspora groups to register discord with citizens of the mother country on matters pertaining to their homeland. The unfortunate aspect is that Macedonians in the Diaspora have to do it on fundamental matters such as the name of the country. If 25% or 49% of Macedonia's population are potentially convinced a new name could be ok, then Julie is closer to correct than many Macedonians care to admit.

We in the Diaspora should be arguing about how much foreign investment should be let in, or what kind of architecture should be employed in Tetovo. Not the name and identity of our people.[/QUOTE]

Risto, sometimes there is a common feeling that as a result of the incapability of the Macedonians who are now in the Diaspora to deal with the problems their country was/is facing chosed to leave and to put the blame on those who stayed.

Or to be more precizely, they've escaped from the responsibility to decide and still try to 'sell brain' to those who stayed.

It would be fair enough if the Diaspora was interested in coming back to Macedonia, willingly loosing some better life standard in order to improve the one in their country.

Let's not forget that those who left Macedonia did it because they couldn't handle the difficult conditions in Macedonia in the last 100 years, 2 Balkan wars-1&2WW- political exterminations- international pressures and sanctions - war in it's neighborhood - a civil war and the on going miserably economical conditions.

Therefore calling those who went through all of that as the 'MOST STUPID' people is another arrogant stupidance producing separation of the Macedonian people and senseless efforts to shift the blame for the guilt we All participate.

We could easily say that the previous generations that have shifted their identity or religion for other personal benefits in their time were also extremally 'stupid', but maybe there was no posibilities to develop some inteligence to lead the masses through the difficultes that time as it's same even today.

Wrong people, manipulative in their interests, deceptive, self oriented and many other foreign influences have produced such 'leadind inteligency'.

The best thing we could do is to show we care with EDUCATING the people, but to do that we need to learn the pedagogical ethics if we want to be accepted, by understanding management ethics first.

With calling anyone 'stupid' you will not contribute to him to LEARN but you will for sure make him despise you and reject you.

I don't believe that Julie or yourself would like to make such impact, for that reason I ask you to rethink your approach before you make permament damage because you care less.

Julie was simply frustrated i dont believe she meant anything bad by her comment, its happened to all of us before.

Those who came to Australia earlier from say the mid to late 60s till about the early 90s managed a better life for themselves aswell as their families where as now its next to impossible to buy a quality home not only in Sydney and Melbourne but cities like Canberra and Perth aswell.

In the next 5 to 10 years life in Australia is going to be extremely difficult, the prices and living expenses are going through the roof yet the wages are only slightly higher and cant cope with the demands anymore. As the great Australian dream was to always own your own home, its next to impossible to do so now unless you have somebody to help you somehow whether its a parent,relative or a close friend either way if the average wage in Australia is $50,000 per year lets say even $70,000 there is no way you can buy an average house in a suburb thats within 15km of the CBD which the prices have risen to around $600,000 for the average 3 bedroom home. If a family is spending up to 30% of their wages on their mortgage and in this instance its probably even higher then that, the levels of stress do tend to rise alot more and thats not a good thing.

In the early to mid 80s, people in Australia with hard work would pay off their houses in short periods like 5 to 10 years max, now its alot harder thats for sure.

The thing is that these eastern European countries lived in communism and were closed countries, alot of the people never traveled around so they didnt know what it was like abroad and this was easy to mislead them and tell them all sorts of stories which they bought but in the last 10 years the people inside Macedonia are educated alot especially the children that have now grown up and have traveled around Europe for starters can now see for themselves what life is really like in the West.

They just have to say something to look like they are working and get their pay. If they were delusional of a solution involving a change to the name they are fast seeing their delusions evaporate bar the last one the ultimate suicide shot. They can see that it is not a choice of which variation will Macedonia choose there is none. Then it becomes the only choice relent or pick a version they think they can sell and forcibly hammer it home. How to do this is the waiting game and positioning of resources.

[QUOTE=Bratot;63668]Risto, sometimes there is a common feeling that as a result of the incapability of the Macedonians who are now in the Diaspora to deal with the problems their country was/is facing chosed to leave and to put the blame on those who stayed.

Or to be more precizely, they've escaped from the responsibility to decide and still try to 'sell brain' to those who stayed.

It would be fair enough if the Diaspora was interested in coming back to Macedonia, willingly loosing some better life standard in order to improve the one in their country.

Let's not forget that those who left Macedonia did it because they couldn't handle the difficult conditions in Macedonia in the last 100 years, 2 Balkan wars-1&2WW- political exterminations- international pressures and sanctions - war in it's neighborhood - a civil war and the on going miserably economical conditions.

Therefore calling those who went through all of that as the 'MOST STUPID' people is another arrogant stupidance producing separation of the Macedonian people and senseless efforts to shift the blame for the guilt we All participate.

We could easily say that the previous generations that have shifted their identity or religion for other personal benefits in their time were also extremally 'stupid', but maybe there was no posibilities to develop some inteligence to lead the masses through the difficultes that time as it's same even today.

Wrong people, manipulative in their interests, deceptive, self oriented and many other foreign influences have produced such 'leadind inteligency'.

The best thing we could do is to show we care with EDUCATING the people, but to do that we need to learn the pedagogical ethics if we want to be accepted, by understanding management ethics first.

With calling anyone 'stupid' you will not contribute to him to LEARN but you will for sure make him despise you and reject you.

I don't believe that Julie or yourself would like to make such impact, for that reason I ask you to rethink your approach before you make permament damage because you care less.[/QUOTE]

Bratot, permanent damage occurs when the name is changed. It would be stupid to allow that to happen. I cannot make that any clearer.

Did you leave Macedonia because you could not handle it? In fact many Macedonians from the Republic are already feeling nostalgic about the Yugo times particularly in relation to the economic prosperity they enjoyed. An alternative way to look at it is the people who stayed behind did not have the fortitude to embrace new cultures and work practices in new countries. So it could be argued that the ones who stayed behind were the least entrepreneurial. Either way, it is a pointless argument which does not favour anybody.

Anybody who is reading this forum [I]from [/I]Macedonia clearly has an interest [I]in [/I]Macedonia. I would bet none of them would be in favour of a name change. They are clearly not stupid.

The ones who [I]advocate [/I]a name change will be very hard to convince as they have no allegiance to their nation and identity. They might feel extremely intelligent because they exist on a level where such matters are beneath them as they are "citizens of the world" etc etc. They will never be useful to the Macedonian Cause. Others are pro name change because they are anti-Macedonians, they are also against the Macedonian Cause. The ones who don't advocate a name change BUT are not disgusted by it are merely apathetic and will most likely never raise their level of awareness to a level where they can be useful to the Cause. I suspect they represent a small proportion of the total "pro-negotiation" people.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;63727]Bratot, permanent damage occurs when the name is changed. It would be stupid to allow that to happen. I cannot make that any clearer.

Did you leave Macedonia because you could not handle it? In fact many Macedonians from the Republic are already feeling nostalgic about the Yugo times particularly in relation to the economic prosperity they enjoyed. An alternative way to look at it is the people who stayed behind did not have the fortitude to embrace new cultures and work practices in new countries. So it could be argued that the ones who stayed behind were the least entrepreneurial. Either way, it is a pointless argument which does not favour anybody.
Anybody who is reading this forum [I]from [/I]Macedonia clearly has an interest [I]in [/I]Macedonia. I would bet none of them would be in favour of a name change. They are clearly not stupid.

[/QUOTE]

I said there is such common feeling in the same maner you see them stupid.

It's not pointless when it's causing damage whether you admit or not, I don't know how you expect someone who is reading this forum from Macedonia to feel and he is interested in Macedonian cause to have you or Julie generalize about how 'stupid the Macedonians in the republic are'.



[QUOTE]The ones who [I]advocate [/I]a name change will be very hard to convince as they have no allegiance to their nation and identity. They might feel extremely intelligent because they exist on a level where such matters are beneath them as they are "citizens of the world" etc etc. They will never be useful to the Macedonian Cause. Others are pro name change because they are anti-Macedonians, they are also against the Macedonian Cause. The ones who don't advocate a name change BUT are not disgusted by it are merely apathetic and will most likely never raise their level of awareness to a level where they can be useful to the Cause. I suspect they represent a small proportion of the total "pro-negotiation" people. [/QUOTE]

I can identify all these cathegories among Macedonians wherever they live.
We have been dealing this anti-Macedonian portion recently, one of them is selfproclaimed UMD from USA and other individuals like the pseudo-journalist Ivo Petkovski from London.

But I would not run with such general statement of how 'stupid' is our Diaspora.

I will always be in favour of unitary voice and cause concordance which have to appear. You alone or myself alone can't do much and in order to change something within the Republic there has to be synchronized efforts based on common trust, respect and resistant zeal.