[QUOTE=Bill77;86115][B][SIZE="4"]Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE]Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that won't happen...we have and will always exist..
but I could assure you that your nation will fall apart very shortly..especially when Europe has a gut full of you racists

[QUOTE]"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.[/QUOTE]

Softer approach..? ahhh Maybe you used up or your lies and Macedonians have exposed the truth...
Greece have hit the self-destruct button and all their dirty little secrets are out.


[QUOTE]"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me... [/QUOTE]

Your dam right you will lose and will be forced to except us...


[QUOTE]Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!![/QUOTE]

Do you think this meeting was recorded..? would love to see it...

[QUOTE]The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.
[/QUOTE]
I could only see Athens being the BAD, and the Ugly...

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/[/url]



[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I would love to see on the news the riots in Greece the inevitable day the un recognises Macedonia.

Its slowly dawning on them that it started with only a few countries recognising Macedonia while the Greek shouted to Macedonia nobody in the world believes your stinking lies…change your name and identity or die.

With Zimbabwe we are upto 130 countries out of the 193 recognised in the un and hence able to vote a 67.36 percent. The wheel is 2 third turned. Quite a change. As the number grows it is a clear message to Greece we…the world…don’t believe you’re your stinking lies.

The day is inevitable that’s why I keep saying the next 2 years are going to be very interesting.

If the Greeks and west are smart they will work on a face saving strategy and the political issues of Egej Macedonia separating from Greece but keeping their business interests.

The person from Lerin told the truth. Greeks have changed their mantra over the last 20 years and now they reject the previous truths. Fools.

I did mention in a couple of threads that i happen to glance in the greek embassy articles & read the translated greek.I found they were saying that they were virtually ready to throw the proverbial towel in if more & more countries recognise macedonia under its constitutional name.They admitted they were winning the battle but losing the war.Also they were saying what a pushover were some of the macedonian politicians they can just be manupulated so easily.The message is clear unless they want to be traitors to the macedonian cause PULL OUT now.

Macedonia ready to iron differences with Greece in European manner, says president
 

[url]http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n239548[/url]

[QUOTE]Skopje. Macedonia is ready in European manner to settle the name dispute, imposed by Greece, which prevents the country to realize its strategic goals - the EU and NATO membership, President Gjorge Ivanov said late Friday at his reception for the diplomatic corps, Macedonian MIA new agency reports.
"It is a pity for many generations of Macedonia's citizens to suffer hardship on their road to progress and welfare over an irrational reason. Macedonia is ready to iron the differences with neighbouring Greece in a European manner. I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - [B]a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers[/B]," Ivanov said.
The new year, he said, will observe the 20th anniversary of Macedonia's independence and 10th anniversary of the Ohrid Framework Agreement. It will be also marked by resuming of crucial reforms on the road to desired EU, NATO membership, the President added.
The diplomatic corps' doyen, Romania's Ambassador Adrian Constantinescu believes that 2011 is going to be an excellent year for Macedonia and its citizens.[/QUOTE]

And why shouldn't Macedonia be the winner Ivanov?
Sounds like a sellout is inevitable by DPMNE and Co.

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.

[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]In the tradition of OM - a story, but this one actually has a point:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]There was a hunter who had taken aim at a very large and angry bear. The hunter was ready to pull the trigger of his rifle when he heard the bear speak in a soothing voice, "Isn't it better to talk than to shoot? Why don't we negotiate this matter? What do you want?"[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]The hunter lowered his rifle and answered, "I would like a fur coat."[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]The bear said, "This is good. I think there is something we can do about that. All I want is a full stomach. Maybe we can compromise."[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]So they sat down to talk. A little while later, the bear walked away alone. The negotiations had been successful. The bear had his full stomach, and the hunter had his fur coat![/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;86315]And why shouldn't [B]Macedonia be the winner[/B] Ivanov?
Sounds like a [B]sellout[/B] is inevitable by [B]DPMNE and Co.[/B]

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.[/QUOTE]

One could be cynical and say a European manner is to offer you a lolly with the promise of more to let them stick their hands in your jocks only to be grabbed by the nuts and squeezed until you give up or faint whichever comes first while they pat you on the head or back with their other hand saying there there you’ll get used to it soon.

Greece is on a downhill run in the name dispute and could loose in the not to distant future…and with them so too the eu re Suez Canal buffer zone theory…yet what would Macedonia gain…remembering gone are the good old days of genocide at least in Europe…more Greeks and others than Macedonians in Egej and RoM put together hardly a desirable mix in a democracy where everyone gets a vote…the Macedonians will become a minority in their own country and loose whatever control they had.

I have a bad feeling about Egej…just keep in mind the ultimate goal of the eu…ie Roman Empire…of open boarders with one big crossover economy and minority rights…Macedonia Salutaris in the north and Macedonia Prima in the south…so what if you are technically part of Greece…ie our buffer zone…you get to be called Macedonians learn and speak your language and some properties are returned or restitution made while in RoM the recognition of Macedonians means a quick accent into the eu and nato alleviating domestic pressures and possible conflict.

A European manner solution…a win win…or is that loose loose…that’s right no winners or losers.

I’ve been hinting at this for ages.

By the way note that in the above Ivanov and Gruevski get to claim they never lied…the did everything to preserve the Macedonian name identity and language for all Macedonians and the integrity of RoM while getting in the eu and nato and having brought prosperity to the country while not forgetting those Macedonians outside of RoM in human rights for them…does this all sound like the words they have been dropping hints at all along.


PS Bravo Vangelovski I knew you would come around to the OziMak way sooner or later. Very good analogy.

Why not come out & admit macedonia will have to compromise first on its name .Lose,then it will be a winner by being allowed to enter Nato & EU.I'ts a forgone conclussion.VmRO DPMe is planning a sellout for sure.You can see ivanov is simply spinning rhetoric.

in the european manner I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers," Ivanov said.Please let me know what that compromise is selling ones identity for the sake of entering Eu,&nato,What a joke we have all been proven wrong we were hoping that the politicians would not negotiate & stand their ground what a joke.They won't even stand to reason.While other nations are determined to stay out of these organizations macedonia is going to be the new lapdog who obeys it's master.Nothing but a complete joke,

Any deviation from our position that demands self-respect is a defeat. Ivanov is fast becoming another tool for foreign interests in Macedonia.