[QUOTE=Vangelovski;83109]Bratot,

[B]Those judgements refer to INDIVIDUALS and their PERSONAL names. Not their NATIONAL/ETHNIC identity or STATE names.[/B]

[/QUOTE]

Vangelovski,

that was example of a judgment to show you that Article 8 includes the name and identity.

You on the other hand made another incredibly ignorant statement.

Obviously you need someone to explain you the basic things.
Since you are convinced that the ethnic identity i.e. the right for a group identification are separate subject and the right to name your own country is not a part of these rights.

P.S. It's time for another diversion huh? It's pretty obvious you and your clone are completely ignorant on these matters but fiercely argueing about.

Maybe it's time someone rise a question about your intentions to mislead our people on the crucial issues as this one.

Bratot,

You are yet to explain how Article 8 has anything to do with ethnic/national identity or state names.

Where did I claim that national identity is sperate to that of the state name?

Are you now ignoring my response to your incoherent and contradictory "legal" arguments? Or are you going to finally admit that you do not believe the Macedonian people are sovereign?

As for my intention, I have made them very clear (including a summary version in my signature block) and I welcome scrutiny.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;83122]Bratot,

You are yet to explain how Article 8 has anything to do with ethnic/national identity or state names. [/QUOTE]

Warsaw, 30 July 2010
Opinion-Nr.: PRIV– MOL/160/2010 (LH)

4.2 Ethnic identity as a protected characteristic of the right to respect for private life

12. [B]It is by now established in the case-law of the ECtHR that ethnic identity is a detail pertaining to the individual’s identity which is protected by Article 8 ECHR.[/B]12
Under the principle of personal autonomy, which underlies the
guarantees provided by Art. 8 ECHR, protection is afforded to the personal sphere of each individual, including the right to establish details of their identity as human beings.13
[B]Ethnic identity is protected because it constitutes an essential
aspect of a person’s private life and identity[/B], along with other aspects such as name, gender, religion and sexual orientation.14

[url]http://www.legislationline.org/documents/id/15942[/url]

Now, do I have to explain what the passport consist of and whether Article 8 is also aplicapable?


[QUOTE]Where did I claim that national identity is sperate to that of the state name?[/QUOTE]

You claimed that individual identity is separate from ethnic/national identity, which you questioned above.



[QUOTE]Are you now ignoring my response to[B] your incoherent and contradictory "legal" arguments?[/B] Or are [B]you going to finally admit [/B]that you do not believe the Macedonian people are sovereign? [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if I should endure your idioticy anymore.

Those Natural laws and rights you and others hold so high and believe are Macedonia’s natural defence were the same laws used against Macedonia in 2001. Do you think that without countering negative perceptions of Macedonia those same laws cannot be used again against Macedonia.

Bratot, I am waiting for a proper answer to post #63 and please do not give us any BS explanations!

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=83079&postcount=63[/url]

[quote=Bratot;83127]Warsaw, 30 July 2010
Opinion-Nr.: PRIV– MOL/160/2010 (LH)

4.2 Ethnic identity as a protected characteristic of the right to respect for private life

12. [B]It is by now established in the case-law of the ECtHR that ethnic identity is a detail pertaining to the individual’s identity which is protected by Article 8 ECHR.[/B]12
Under the principle of personal autonomy, which underlies the
guarantees provided by Art. 8 ECHR, protection is afforded to the personal sphere of each individual, including the right to establish details of their identity as human beings.13
[B]Ethnic identity is protected because it constitutes an essential
aspect of a person’s private life and identity[/B], along with other aspects such as name, gender, religion and sexual orientation.14

[URL]http://www.legislationline.org/documents/id/15942[/URL][/quote]

I graciously concede this point. Article 8 can be interpreted to include ethnic/national identity after all.

HOWEVER, that was a side issue and has no bearing on the fact that you continue to deny Macedonian sovereignty and appeal to unaccountable courts as a final arbiter on issues that can only be decided on by the Macedonian people. By doing so, you are denying the Macedonian people their sovereignty and opening the possiblity of an unaccountable court making a negative determination, i.e., one in favour of Greece. You either do not understand sovereignty or just do not believe in it. Which one is it?


[quote=Bratot;83127]You claimed that individual identity is separate from ethnic/national identity, which you questioned above.[/quote]

No, you originally said that I claimed national/ethnic identity was separate from the state name. Now you are claiming that I said individual identity is separate from national/ethnic identity.

What I actually said was that PERSONAL identity, i.e., name and surname, is separate to national/ethnic identity.

[quote=OziMak;83130]Those Natural laws and rights you and others hold so high and believe are Macedonia’s natural defence were the same laws used against Macedonia in 2001. Do you think that without countering negative perceptions of Macedonia those same laws cannot be used again against Macedonia.[/quote]

There are competing rights, i.e., national self-determination versus self-defence. This has been discussed previously. If claims to competing rights cannot be resolved peacefully, then the last resort is violence.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;83136] Which one is it?
[/QUOTE]

I think you need a good rest.

You intentionally tried to discredit me as well as your clone and yet I haven't seen your appologize.

There is no need for parroting the same shallow phrases in attemp to attach your fallacy to me.

[quote=Bratot;83138]I think you need a good rest.

You intentionally tried to discredit me as well as your clone and yet I haven't seen your appologize.

There is no need for parroting the same shallow phrases in attemp to attach your fallacy to me.[/quote]

Bratot,

You are still avoiding the substance of the issue - Macedonian sovereignty versus appeals to foreign/unaccountable courts to decide matters on our behalf. I can only repeat the question - Do you understand what sovereignty is and if so, do you believe that the Macedonian people should decide their own affairs?

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;83139]Bratot,

You are still avoiding the substance of the issue - Macedonian sovereignty versus appeals to foreign/unaccountable courts to decide matters on our behalf. I can only repeat the question - Do you understand what sovereignty is and if so, do you believe that the Macedonian people should decide their own affairs?[/QUOTE]


[B]Actually, by purposely avoiding to employ the given solutions to terminate this dispute with a victory is equal to a betrayal of our national interest.[/B]


What is the better than deciding your own affairs with setting out the best legal decissions for a final substantive victory in this issue?