[QUOTE=Rogi;3176]Allow me to stress this...

If we really care about the Rights of the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia, then we need to put some serious importance on the name that Greece will recognise us with.

Forget the International name, that cannot change whatsoever under any circumstance, I am talking about the 'double formula' potential solution and the name will will accept for Greece to use for us - it's very important if we in future want the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia to associate with the Republic of Macedonia - as the same people.[/QUOTE]
The international name is still under negotiation Rogi, as you are currently under an interim name.

Greece wants a clear differentiation between Greek Macedonia and its Macedonians and your Aegean Macedonians.

The Aegean Macedonians are currently referred to in Greece as Slav Macedonians.

The Greek Government is committed to labelling the ethnicity/language as Slav Macedonian.

I believe there will be a change and it will be okayed by the RoM government.

Watch carefully what is happening in the current political arena in the UN, USA and you will start to feel the winds of change.

That's an interesting parallel.

Rogi, it is hard call anyways.

It seems to me that what ever decision is made, it will have some backdraw.
The one who is going to make the move won't be interested in the Voice of the Macedonians, cause we are just silent voices.

[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3181]The international name is still under negotiation Rogi, as you are currently under an interim name.

Greece wants a clear differentiation between Greek Macedonia and its Macedonians and your Aegean Macedonians.

The Aegean Macedonians are currently referred to in Greece as Slav Macedonians.

The Greek Government is committed to labelling the ethnicity/language as Slav Macedonian.

I believe there will be a change and it will be okayed by the RoM government.

Watch carefully what is happening in the current political arena in the UN, USA and you will start to feel the winds of change.[/QUOTE]
The Aegean Macedonians are the Macedonians and that is what their language is called, as compared to Greeks from Macedonia. The Macedonians are not currently referred to as Slav Macedonians in Greece, they are not even acknowledged to exist.

I am of the impression that Greece believes it is making a concession by calling the Macedonians as Slav Macedonians - This, will not be accepted by the Macedonian side, as it will be considered a loss for us.

The constitutional name will not be changed, nor will its international equivalent, the only country in the world that seems to have a problem with the name of Macedonia, remains to be Greece. So wouldn't it make more sense for the Macedonian government to treat this issue as bi-lateral rather than international? I think so. The only reason why there are some others who haven't recognized our name is due to the stink kicked up by Greece, but I think it is wishful thinking on the part of the Greeks if they actually believe the constitutional name, language and identity will be changed from anything but Macedonian. These will all remain Macedonian.

Garbage. What recognition is there from Greece, officially a state, if this recognition isn't official? Street chatter? What you are saying is false, Greece does not recognize the Macedonians in their state by any name regardless of the distinct language and identity.


[QUOTE]Greece cannot formally label them as such due to the outstanding name dispute and interim agreement.[/QUOTE]
Come on RH, what about prior to the name dispute? Why didn't they recognize them then? Were they too busy supporting the politics of racists who wanted to "cut out their tongues" as one Greek paper put it? The name dispute is just an excuse.

Let me ask you, given that Greece does not recognize any of its ethnic minorities apart from a religious minority, do you actually believe that Greece would recognize and respect the Macedonians and the right to promote and keep their culture and language alive on an official platform regardless of the designated name?

I think that even if Greece forced the name of Slav Macedonians on the Macedonians within the country, they would still do everything possible to deny them their right to self-determination.

The Slav Macedonians are recognised in Greece but not officially.
Greece cannot formally label them as such due to the outstanding name dispute and interim agreement.
Don't forget that Greece has their own 2.5 million Macedonians in Greek Macedonia.

Once the name dispute is resolved, then all the other related issues such as ethnicity, language etc will be referred back to the new name accordingly.

Whether we like it or not, the change is inevitable, it will happen. The minorities will be officially recognised, the ethnicity and language will be accurately identified, the RoM will enter Europe, Nato etc, and we will all live happily ever after.

As I said
[QUOTE]Garbage. What recognition is there from Greece, officially a state, if this recognition isn't official? [B]Street chatter?[/B] What you are saying is false, Greece does not recognize the Macedonians in their state by any name regardless of the distinct language and identity.[/QUOTE]
Recognized by whom exactly, or better yet, what organ?

[QUOTE]Don't forget that Greece has their own 2.5 million Macedonians in Greek Macedonia.[/QUOTE]
No, Greece has 2.5 million of its citizens who reside the piece of Macedonia they occupy, many of whom are Christian Asians by descent, of which most did not speak Greek natively until they landed on European soil 85 years ago. Don't compare apples with oranges.

This is where the problem lies SOM. Greece does not share your view with its 2.5 million Macedonians. They are viewed as Macedonians, whether we like it or not.

Apples and oranges RH, in more ways than one.

These Greek citizens with largely Asian origins have not called themselves Macedonians until very recently, for my people, it is a name that represents a [B]national[/B] identity we have lived and died for in the past and present.

Besides, it is like me comparing the population of a region, lets say Bitola for arguments sake, to the population of the whole Greek state. You guys can have your regional names, but they do not take priority over the [B]national[/B] name and identity of another people.

There are people in Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia and the rest of the Balkans who identify nationally as Macedonians, their kin live all around the world, regardless of the pressure put on the Macedonian state today by Greece to change whatever, they only refer to themselves as Macedonians and will continue to do so. Hence, a change of name for identity, language and state is not an option for our people.

Greece can recognize my people by the name they self-identify with and then we will live happily ever after, the Macedonian side does not attempt to prevent the Greek side in relation to what names they wish to use, hence, this problem is entirely one created and prolonged by Greece itself, nobody else.