Gruevski and Ivanov are doing a fantastic job. They are raising awarness of the Macedonian Struggle in more and more of their speaches.

It has only taken 20 years but hey....better late than never !!

We don't need to concede to the New Territorians and former Albanians.:punk:

[QUOTE=Stojacanec;29686]Gruevski and Ivanov are doing a fantastic job. They are raising awarness of the Macedonian Struggle in more and more of their speaches.

It has only taken 20 years but hey....better late than never !!

We don't need to concede to the New Territorians and former Albanians.:punk:[/QUOTE]

Macedonian President makes it Clear [as mud] to Greece, the EU
Thursday, 10 December 2009

[SIZE="4"]- [COLOR="Red"]Macedonia will not alter the Constitution in order to change its constitutional name, and will not accept any settlement that violates Macedonian national and language identity[/COLOR], said President Gjorge Ivanov during Thursday's formal academy at the Skopje-based Faculty of Law on occasion of the International Human Rights Day.[/SIZE]

[....]

[URL="http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/10707/45/"]Mina[/URL]

People need to read between the lines when "our" politicians in RoM speak, ALWAYS.

The statement above reads that IVANOV WILL accept a name change (but not for internal use).

And this is how he praises the [URL="http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1728"]TREASONOUS Framework Agreement[/URL]:
[QUOTE]Ѓорге Иванов:
Со потпишувањето на Охридскиот рамковен договор Македонија покажа дека е држава која навистина знае како да се определи за својата иднина, изјави претседателот Ѓорге Иванов по денешната посета на Старата скопска чаршија.[/QUOTE]

Solid point Indigen.
This aligns itself with what appears to be the current USA stance as suggested here:
[QUOTE]
Elftherotypia: U.S. proposes name “Republic of North Macedonia” as resolution of the name issue
14 December 2009 | 16:12 | FOCUS News Agency
Athens. Washington recommends the name “Republic of North Macedonia” to be carried as resolution of the name dispute between Athens and Skopje, Greek Elftherotypia newspaper writes. The U.S., which has said several times it is about time Athens and Skopje, to close the name issue, are now pressing the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) to demonstrate good neighbor relations with Greece by adopting the name “Republic of North Macedonia” as the specifying of the comprehensiveness of the usage to be left for the future.
Washington also recommends Athens and Skopje to concentrate on finding resolution of the name issue and later, in the frames of the UN, to resolve the dispute over nationality and language. The newspaper writes that this way, through the dictionary of the UN, which will propose the language and the nationality of FYROM to be called “Macedonian” Greece will have at practice no possibility to contradict. The American tactic is to prepare the ground for the annulment of Greek arguments as a whole, so Greece to present “naked” at the European Summit scheduled for 2010, NATO Summit, Elftherotypia reads.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n203385[/url]

Do we have a US communication regarding this new development? Eleftherotypia is renowned for producing lie after lie.

[QUOTE="Indigen"]- Macedonia will not alter the Constitution in order to change its constitutional name, and will not accept any settlement that violates Macedonian national and language identity, said President Gjorge Ivanov during Thursday's formal academy at the Skopje-based Faculty of Law on occasion of the International Human Rights Day.

[....]

Mina

People need to read between the lines when "our" politicians in RoM speak, ALWAYS.

The statement above reads that IVANOV WILL accept a name change (but not for internal use).[/QUOTE]
I am reading between the lines, but I don't read it that way. In addition to Ivanov's comment, Gruevski explicitly states that he wants our people to enter these institutions as [B]Macedonians[/B].

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;29690]Gruevski explicitly states that he wants our people to enter these institutions as [B]Macedonians[/B].[/QUOTE]
We enter as Macedonians but they call us anything they want.
This is my concern!

If we enter as Macedonians in NATO and the EU, we will be Macedonians in NATO and the EU. Otherwise, we don't enter at all, especially under blackmail. This is how I read Gruevski's statement.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zpZXFjf9nI]YouTube - Prime minister Nikola Gruevski - Macedonia - Greece[/url]


[CENTER][B][U][I][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]We cannot delete ourself as a nation. We are Macedonians, we want to become a member of the EU[/SIZE] [SIZE="7"]as Macedonians[/SIZE][/COLOR][/I][/U][/B].[/CENTER]

How can one read it in any other way?

[QUOTE=Bill77;29667][B]"Republic of Northern Macedonia" solution to the name, "Macedonian" to identity, language - Greek paper[/B]

Athens, December 14 (MIA) - Washington suggests the name "The Republic of Northern Macedonia" as a solution to the name dispute between Skopje and Athens and the use of the term "Macedonian" to define the identity and language, Elefterotipia daily reports on Monday in an article titled "Americans prepare a trap for FYROM's name".

It's time to put an end to the name row and to realise the importance of its possible settlement and of Macedonia's accession to Euro-Atlantic structures, the newspaper says citing American diplomats.




[url]http://www.idividi.com.mk/English/Macedonia/568243/index.html[/url][/QUOTE] Just recieved mail from a friend who lives in Macedonia and sstated that this is just another lie from the Greek media in particulor "Elefterotipia daily"

His reply was this,
Quote: "Yesterday, our medias (try Sitel,Kanal 5 official web sites) released info that the Greek newspaper Elefterotipos (not sure if I spelled that right, if not, try Elephterotipos or some other variation) Americans are seeing only one solution: name change without touching anything else-identity,language...etc.

After this info was released, the Americans claimed that the information was false. It can either mean that:

1) Greeks are lying as usual
2) Americans are trying to input a suggestion on a very very "shady" way.

I really hope that 1) is the correct answer. I'll discuss this further in an hour or so. Also I'll look for the info. In the meantime, use the web sites I suggested."


i will get back to you guys when i confirm these lies further.

The Greeks are now all Macedonians, at least acording to this:

[QUOTE]Македонскиот идентитет е дел од идентитетот на секој Грк и за тоа нема да преговараме, порачува грчкиот алтернативен министер за надворешни работи Друцас

Официјална Атина инсистира на преговори само за името и смета дека е грешка вклучувањето на прашањата за јазикот и за идентитетот во преговорите, зашто македонскиот идентитет му припаѓа на секој Грк. Грција ќе бара амандмани на македонскиот устав ако тоа е неопходно за да се реализира формулата „едно име за сите употреби“. Ваквиот став го изнесе грчкиот алтернативен министер за надворешни работи Димитрис Друцас во интервју за „Прото тема“. Друцас ја зацементира грчката црвена линија за името на земјава, а на прашањето дали и тие би прифатиле „македонски“ на латиница за јазикот, вели:

- Посредникот Метју Нимиц во 2005 година не требаше да ги вклучи другите прашања во својот предлог, а уште полошо беше што претходната влада на Караманлис се согласи да дискутира за нив - вели Друцас.
Ваквата дискусија, според Друцас, му послужила само на премиерот Никола Груевски за да може да го кочи напредокот во преговорите и постигнувањето решение.

- Груевски сака да го монополизира името Македонија. Јасно велам дека македонскиот идентитет е дел од идентитетот на секој Грк. За тоа нема да преговараме и добро е за ова да се чуе не само во Скопје, туку и во Њујорк и секаде каде што треба да се слушне - порачува Друцас.

На прашањето дали ќе инсистираат на промена на македонскиот устав или решението за името ќе биде само за меѓународна употреба, Друцас дециден дека кога ќе се постигне решение, тие ќе инсистираат на негова целосна примена.

- Нема да дозволиме ниту најмала нејаснотија. За Грција е важна ефикасна имплементација на „ерга омнес“ име. Ако тоа значи амандмани на уставот, на тоа ќе инсистираме - вели Друцас за „Прото тема“.

Од друга страна, под наслов „Американците подготвуваат замка за името на ПЈРМ“, весникот „Елефтеротипија“ пишува дека Вашингтон препорачува „Република Северна Македонија“ како решение за спорот за името меѓу Скопје и Атина, а употребата на терминот „македонски“ (со нормален превод на странските јазици, на пример, Macedonian на англиски) за одредувањето на идентитетот и јазикот. Весникот се повикува на изјави на високи американски дипломати, според кои, време е да се стави крај на спорот за името и да се сфати значењето што би ги имале неговото решавање и пристапувањето на Македонија кон евроатлантските структури.

„Американците вршат притисок за решавање на прашањето преку посредникот на ОН, Нимиц. Американскиот план предвидува новото име ‘Република Северна Македонија’ да помине на Советот за безбедност на ОН, кој би дал и препорака тоа да се користи од сите држави-членки на Светската организација во билатералните релации со Македонија. За идентитетот и за јазикот е предвидено „тивко решение“, односно нивното одредување како македонски да се впише во регистерот на ОН, без неопходно претходно одобрение од Грција. Атина тоа практично и не би можела да го сопре“, пишува „Елефтеротипија“.[/QUOTE]

google translated:

[QUOTE]Macedonian identity is part of the identity of each Greel and will not negotiate, tells Greek Alternate Foreign Minister Drucas

Official Athens insists on negotiating only the name and considers it a mistake inclusion of issues of language and identity in the negotiations, because the Macedonian identity belongs to every Greek. Greece will seek amendments to the Macedonian constitution if it is necessary to realize the formula "one name for all uses. This view was expressed Greek Alternate Foreign Minister Dimitris Drucas in an interview for "Proto Thema". Drucas January cemented Greek red line for the country's name, and asked whether they would accept the "Macedonian" of the Latin language, says:

- Mediator Matthew Nimetz in 2005 were not supposed to include other issues in his proposal, but even worse was that the previous government of Karamanlis agreed to discuss them - says Drucas.
This discussion, according Drucas, has served only to Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski to be able to slows progress in the negotiations and reaching a solution.

- Gruevski wants to monopolizira name Macedonia. Clearly say that Macedonian identity is part of the identity of each Greek. For it will not negotiate and it is good for this to be heard not only in Skopje, but also in New York and wherever you need to hear - tells Drucas.

Asked whether he would insist on changes to the Macedonian constitution or settlement of the name will be only for international use, Drucas clear that when we reach a solution, they will insist on its full implementation.

- Will not allow even the slightest ambiguity. Greece is important for effective implementation of "erga omnes" name. If it means amending the constitution, it will insist - says Drucas for "Proto Thema".

On the other hand, under the headline "Americans prepare traps for the name of FYROM," the newspaper Eleftherotypia writes that Washington recommends Republic of Northern Macedonia "as a solution to the name dispute between Skopje and Athens, and the use of the term" Macedonian "(with normal translation of foreign languages, for example, Macedonian English) for determining the identity and language. The paper calls for statements of senior U.S. diplomats, according to which, it is time to end the name dispute and to understand the meaning that would have had his settlement and accession of Macedonia to NATO structures.

"The Americans are pushing to resolve the issue through the UN mediator Nimetz. U.S. plan envisions the new name 'Republic of Northern Macedonia' to pass the Security Council of UN, which would made a recommendation and it is used by all Member States of the World Organization of bilateral relations with Macedonia. Of identity and language is provided "quiet decision", ie their determination as Macedonian to be entered in the register of the UN, without the necessary prior approval from Greece. Athens and it practically could not stop, "wrote Eleftherotypia.[/QUOTE]

taken from [URL="http://dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=241825BFAA2FF64BA6AC8D4D78139517"]dnevnik[/URL]

I don't have the resources to check dnevniks story, but if this is true, I conclude that Idiocracy has no end.

From Kanal 5


From the U.S. embassy in Skopje said that the published information is speculation, which refused to comment on. Diplomatic sources for Channel 5 said that the U.S. administration maintains not to interfere in the dispute, and the two countries to agree on mutually acceptable solution under UN mediation. The Greek side did not want to comment on alleged U.S. plan, because the contents of the negotiations were confidential.

[url]http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&eventId=56092[/url]