[QUOTE=Phoenix;178453]

The vote in the greek parliament could easily go either way...civil unrest is a distinct possibility...dirty political tricks are a to be expected...anything could happen...

[/QUOTE]

Generally I'm not a spiteful person, but I will feel some satisfaction if the Chauvinist Hellenic Republic spirals into violence and chaos. It's the least they deserve.

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178454]Generally I'm not a spiteful person, but I will feel some satisfaction if the Chauvinist Hellenic Republic spirals into violence and chaos. It's the least they deserve.[/QUOTE]

If the Tsipras government doesn't fall, if Solun isn't burnt to the ground, or a 'yellow-vest' type apocalypse doesn't descend on greece it actually makes them look pretty fuckin stupid I reckon...in other words, all those greek zombies that trolled the internet in their single-mindedness and myopia stood for nothing at all...

[QUOTE=Phoenix;178453]

The vote in the greek parliament could easily go either way...civil unrest is a distinct possibility...dirty political tricks are a to be expected...anything could happen...
[/QUOTE]

You are right really anything can happen. The politics of it all have become so detached from reality that there is not telling how it will end. I would be surprised though if there wasn't at least some kind of violent reaction in the case of ratification.

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178449]
Given that Macedonians have remained passive, the only real act that can save the name from being changed now is a failure in Greek parliament to pass the agreement.[/QUOTE]

What do you suppose the Macedonian reaction would be if Greece didn't ratify? I reckon Zaev says we must stay the course and beg the EU to pressure Greece. A reversal of the name change seems completely unlikely.


I will say one thing that has not been mentioned even though I'm sure most of you realize it:

Because of the name change to North Macedonia, now when you say to someone one "I am from Macedonia" what you are really saying is that you are from Greece. "Macedonia" is now a region in Greece and not a country. If you say "I am Macedonian" again it means a person from Greece. I don't think most people in NMK realize this yet. The region of northern Greece is called Macedonia, the country is not.

The Russian ministry said that the manner in which the agreement was reached cannot guarantee a long-term settlement of a problem that is key to the country’s future, adding that Moscow plans to refer the issue to the UN Security Council.

From today's Kathimerini article "Moscow renews attack on name deal"

Carlin,

I think the Russian statement said the agreement "should" go before the UN security council, but not that they plan to refer it there.

I think they're expecting the Macedonian President, Ivanov, to refer it there.

[QUOTE=Gocka;178457]

What do you suppose the Macedonian reaction would be if Greece didn't ratify? I reckon Zaev says we must stay the course and beg the EU to pressure Greece. A reversal of the name change seems completely unlikely. [/QUOTE]

The 2/3 majority in Macedonia's parliament voted to not implement the constitutional changes if Greece does not ratify it. I don't know if there's a time-limit in there, but theoretically Zaev can do something like that -- the irony: force another country to force you to change your name.



[QUOTE]Because of the name change to North Macedonia, now when you say to someone one "I am from Macedonia" what you are really saying is that you are from Greece. "Macedonia" is now a region in Greece and not a country. If you say "I am Macedonian" again it means a person from Greece. I don't think most people in NMK realize this yet. The region of northern Greece is called Macedonia, the country is not.[/QUOTE]

North Macedonians will argue that the agreement says their nationality is Macedonian.

And what you point out will eventually lead to Macedonians referring to their country as North Macedonia just because, you know, they don't want to cause problems or confusion and just make everything easier.

Aside for a couple statements like calling Zaev a grown-up, this is one of the few recent Western-based articles that sums up Greece's belligerence. He also acknowledges that Zaev blackmailed and bribed members of parliament to get their votes.

[URL="https://www.guelphmercury.com/opinion-story/9124025-macedonia-what-s-in-a-name-/"]https://www.guelphmercury.com/opinion-story/9124025-macedonia-what-s-in-a-name-/[/URL]

Russia's stance. Will they pursue this?

[QUOTE]The information and press office of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) called the new amendments to the Macedonian Constitution for changing the name of the country "[B][U]artificial change of the name of the state in order to force Skopje to join NATO[/U][/B]" and said that the problem with the renaming of the country [B]should be considered by the United Nations Security Council in accordance with Article 3 of Council Resolution 845[/B].

"It is about continuing the process of artificially changing the name of the state under foreign pressure in order to force Skopje into NATO.[B] It is a violation of Macedonian laws. The position of the head of state and the attitude of the majority of the population rejecting the Prespa agreement are ignored. Permanent protests in Skopje and other Macedonian cities show a profound polarization of society.[/B] It is obvious that[B] this way of resolving issues of national importance for the future of the country does not reflect the will of its population and can not serve as a tool for a long-term solution to the name issue of the country,[/B] "the statement said.

From the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs say that developments in Greece, ie Panos Kamenos' resignation, former defense minister and president of the Independent Greeks, the coalition government partner of SYRIZA, talk about "the explosiveness of the situation".

Additionally, it is also blamed that in Greece the same formula is applied in Macedonia - pressure for the adoption of the Prespa Agreement through the trampling of the will of the Greek people.

"The position of the Russian Federation on the name issue of the Macedonian state remains unchanged: a sustainable solution must be found without external pressures, imposed solutions and conditions from outside, which will be based on broad public support - both in the Republic of Macedonia and Greece - [B]and only within the framework of law. We think that this issue must be considered by the United Nations Security Council in accordance with Article 3 of Security Council Resolution 845[/B].[/QUOTE]

[URL="https://meta.mk/moskva-ustavnite-izmeni-ne-se-po-volja-na-narodot-sovetot-za-bezbednost-na-on-da-rasprava-za-imeto/"]https://meta.mk/moskva-ustavnite-izmeni-ne-se-po-volja-na-narodot-sovetot-za-bezbednost-na-on-da-rasprava-za-imeto/[/URL]

Wait there’s more..

Albanian to become official

[url]https://telma.com.mk/zakonot-za-jazitsite-e-objaven-vo-sluzhben-vesnik/[/url]

Sneaky..

I know I'm always that guy, the one going around telling everyone that they're wrong, but you're wrong on the UN thing.

The UN has no authority to determine the contents of international agreements - those made between sovereign states. The only authority it has is to act as an official repository (depository?) if the parties to these agreements choose to register these agreements with the UN and only for the purpose of invoking those agreements within the UN. For example, when Macedonia sued Greece in the international court of justice to enforce its name FYROM.

If you read Security Council Resolutions 817 and 845 you'll see there's a lot of urging, a lot of noting, a lot of welcoming and a lot of recommending. But there is no directing anyone to do anything or authorising any UN organ to make any decision about anything. That is because it does not have the authority to do so.

The most Russia can do is huff and puff and spread false hope for patriots and fear for fyromanians.

Its all an interesting conversation, but nothing more.