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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

VMRO 06-14-2018 09:20 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;173948][url]https://www.kpvi.com/news/national_news/greek-govt-faces-no-confidence-vote-on-macedonia-name-deal/article_798e2562-e3c0-5172-bf3f-7f8274bb0a99.html[/url]

Nothing less than complete capitulation will satisfy these animals.

Apparently there were protests in Skopje and Bitola last night. Not sure how large or if there was any trouble. From the same link above:

If there are Macedonians in Bitola who respect themselves and their heritage, they should prevent this from happening.[/QUOTE]

The signing will happen apparently in the Prespa region currently under Greek occupation.

Soldier of Macedon 06-14-2018 09:47 PM

[QUOTE=VMRO;173952]The signing will happen apparently in the Prespa region currently under Greek occupation.[/QUOTE]
Is there a source for that?

Carlin 06-14-2018 10:00 PM

Tsipras: "The agreement does not recognize a Macedonian nation."

[url=https://imgur.com/6n6qiAJ][img]http://i.imgur.com/6n6qiAJ.jpg[/img][/url]

URL:
[url]https://markukule.mk/%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BD/[/url]

Tsipras: "We will not call them Macedonians, but Slavomacedonians."

URL:
[url]https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/cipras-makedonija-se-soglasila-da-go-smeni-imeto-vo-severna-makedonija-nie-ja[/url]

Phoenix 06-14-2018 10:09 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;173954]Tsipras: "The agreement does not recognize a Macedonian nation."

[url=https://imgur.com/6n6qiAJ][img]http://i.imgur.com/6n6qiAJ.jpg[/img][/url]

URL:
[url]https://markukule.mk/%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%BD/[/url]

Tsipras: "We will not call them Macedonians, but Slavomacedonians."

URL:
[url]https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/cipras-makedonija-se-soglasila-da-go-smeni-imeto-vo-severna-makedonija-nie-ja[/url][/QUOTE]

So much for this so called 'agreement' building trust and friendship, or putting aside the differences between the two side...looks like it's business as usual for the greeks, whereby they give up fuck all and our side has willingly taken themselves to the cleaners...so clearly the greek stipulation for an erga omnes solution applies to everyone else except the greeks themselves...

Carlin 06-14-2018 11:42 PM

[QUOTE=Phoenix;173956]So much for this so called 'agreement' building trust and friendship, or putting aside the differences between the two side...looks like it's business as usual for the greeks, whereby they give up fuck all and our side has willingly taken themselves to the cleaners...so clearly the greek stipulation for an erga omnes solution applies to everyone else except the greeks themselves...[/QUOTE]

It looks like this is a [I]dual name formula[/I]:

1) Macedonia will use "Republic of North Macedonia" [U]internally[/U] and internationally, in bilateral relations with all other countries.
2) It appears that Greece will use "Severna Makedonija" [U]internally[/U], untranslated - and not "Βόρεια Μακεδονία", which is "North Macedonia" in Greek. I have already seen several examples of Tsipras and other Greek SYRIZA govt officials using simply "Severna Makedonija"[B][COLOR="Red"]*[/COLOR][/B]. In addition to this, they will use the [I]derogatory[/I] "Slavomacedonians" or "Slav-Macedonians", and not Macedonians - as it seems to be stipulated in the agreement. But Tsipras/official Athens do not seem to interpret the agreement that they are required or obligated to use the term Macedonians.

[B][COLOR="red"]*[/COLOR][/B] - [I]Reflecting the often amateurish way in which the Greek government has handled the Macedonia issue in public, a governmental “non paper” with 16 points arising from the Tsipras-Zaev deal was immediately called into question by [U]government spokesman Mile Bosnjakovski, who described it as an “interpretation” of the agreement[/U]. [B][U]For instance, while [COLOR="Blue"]the SYRIZA government claimed that the name “Severna Makedonija” would be in use within Greece[/COLOR], the actual agreement makes no mention of “Severna Makedonija.” This, in any event, would contradict the “erga omnes” usage of the name “North Macedonia.”[/U][/B] Bosnjakovski, in his statement, added that his country will maintain its “Macedonian indentity and language.”[/I]

As we can see, the SYRIZA govt openly stated / claimed that the name "Severna Makedonija" would be in use within Greece.

URL:
[B][url]http://hellenicinsider.com/analysis-deal-or-no-deal-syriza-sells-out-macedonia-will-agreement-be-ratified/[/url][/B]

maco2envy 06-14-2018 11:59 PM

[QUOTE]For instance, while the SYRIZA government claimed that the name “Severna Makedonija” would be in use within Greece, the actual agreement makes no mention of “Severna Makedonija.” This, in any event, would contradict the “erga omnes” usage of the name “North Macedonia.”[/QUOTE]

So does that mean Greece has already broken the agreement?

Carlin 06-15-2018 12:14 AM

[QUOTE=maco2envy;173962]So does that mean Greece has already broken the agreement?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the Macedonian govt interprets it that way.

What I find significant is that the two governments appear to have some differences - and the agreement is not even officially signed yet:

[I]"Reflecting the often amateurish way in which the Greek government has handled the Macedonia issue in public, a governmental “non paper” with 16 points arising from the Tsipras-Zaev deal was [U]immediately called into question by government spokesman Mile Bosnjakovski[/U], who described it as an “interpretation” of the agreement."[/I]



[I]Со овој договор добивме двојна формула само за Грците. Значи ние се обврзуваме во Република Македонија и сите останати 140 – 150 земји кои веќе не имаат признаено како Република Македонија да не нарекуваат како што договорил Заев, [B]а од друга страна Ципрас и Грците можат да не нарекуваат како што сакаат, со било кој навредилв збор[/B]. Тоа црно на бело стои во договорот и тоа го прифатил Заев, вели политичкиот аналитичар Александар Пандов во неговото гостување во Алфа ТВ.[/I]

URL / Video:
[url]https://republika.mk/927476[/url]

Carlin 06-15-2018 01:34 AM

[QUOTE=Niko777;173950][B][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]This is the main reason why Greece want's Macedonia to be called "Northern Macedonia": it's because we already have a "Western Macedonia", "Central Macedonia", and "Eastern Macedonia" in Greece. That would imply a "Northern Macedonia" should belong in Greece too...[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[IMG]http://images.slideplayer.com/38/10789223/slides/slide_14.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pre00.deviantart.net/70e4/th/pre/f/2017/074/3/e/administrative_divisions_of_the_kingdom_of_greece_by_meatstewbox-db2etdv.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[B]Greek map before the breakup of Yugoslavia.[/B]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/RxaDAji.jpg[/img]


[url=https://imgur.com/1jwg1hn][img]http://i.imgur.com/1jwg1hn.jpg[/img][/url]


Far right Greek newspaper Makeleio is calling for the Execution of Greek PM Tsipras, Foreign Minister Kotzias and President Pavlopoulos for treason.
[url=https://imgur.com/MmWUWbp][img]http://i.imgur.com/MmWUWbp.jpg[/img][/url]

Soldier of Macedon 06-15-2018 02:07 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;173968][B]Greek map before the breakup of Yugoslavia.[/B]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/RxaDAji.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Do you have any more details of that map, like which book it is from, when it was published and what it was used for? Also, any other pages that show Aegean Macedonia? It would be interesting to see if they also call it Macedonia.

Carlin 06-15-2018 02:14 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;173969]Do you have any more details of that map, like which book it is from, when it was published and what it was used for? Also, any other pages that show Aegean Macedonia? It would be interesting to see if they also call it Macedonia.[/QUOTE]

I don't have the details unfortunately. It comes from here -

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xSJ4elc.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/hEhOKfl.jpg[/img]

[url]https://twitter.com/palavras79[/url]


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