[QUOTE=Risto the Great;172016]Respectfully, I think you are making fun of me.

The time came,
went,
came back,
went again
and
now the time to openly attack any Fyromian is here.

Anyone who cannot understand why the Macedonian identity is under question in the world arena needs immediate education and/or derision. Fyromians are everywhere. In my mind, it would include anyone who thinks there is any kind of plan that will reveal itself in the future based on new events happening. It includes others as well .... but I still think you are making fun of me so I won't go on.[/QUOTE]

If it wasnt obvious, or perhaps Im not clear enough, I do not support any name change, except Republic Macedonia, everything else is out of the question. This seems to be the case with 90% of the people I've talked to. I was merely pointing out the calling 60% of SDS voters and 30% VMRO voters maggots or using any other similar and divisive rhetoric isn't getting us anywhere.

I have yet to meet a single person who would agree to identity change, so I don't know where you get your info from to claim that fyromians are everywhere. In my view, this rhetoric adds to the problem. Whether people understand that the identity is under question or not, well I cant answer that for everyone. I know that it is under question hence why I stand firmly on the position that any name change is out of the question. However I also understand that the negotiations which are underway need to run their course.

Im not making fun of you or anyone else, but if that's how my message gets across, I'm sorry that was not my intention. I simply pointed out that the rhetoric used in the last few pages is not productive.

[QUOTE=dvenov;172019]However I also understand that the negotiations which are underway need to run their course.[/QUOTE]

Why?, why do the negotiations need to run their course?, if no one wants to change the name, why the need to negotiate?, why keep up the facade for 25 years?. Why do you feel the negotiations need to continue to “run their course”?

[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;172020]Why?, why do the negotiations need to run their course?, if no one wants to change the name, why the need to negotiate?, why keep up the facade for 25 years?. Why do you feel the negotiations need to continue to “run their course”?[/QUOTE]

Because they are already started and ending them abruptly isn't the right way to go about it. Regardless of the fact that the negotiations are, for the lack of better word, 'forced' upon us by EU/NATO, we will show more maturity if we are willing to have a dialogue since we've already been shoehorned into this by EU/NATO. The same is true for Greece, they've been shoehorned into this as well.

What happens at the end of the dialogue is another matter. Im not saying there's no room to be worried or afraid, Im very worried as well, but not from our people or the fyromians as they are called here, but by our government and the international community who are not very open about the things that are discussed. I'm of personal belief that forcing this dialogue solely for the purpose of joining EU and NATO, 2 organizations that may or may not exist 10/20 or 50 years from now, is not the wisest choice if we consider our long term national interests. But as I said, we are in the position that we're in and continuing to talk is the better option because it shows that as a country and as people we are willing to talk to resolve problems, regardless of how absurd this whole thing is in the first place.

Negotiations could have easily stopped after the ICJ ruling. But Macedonia still showed it's pathetic face to the world after this. It wants to be FYROM forever. Dvenov, you sound like an abused housewife. Make the comparison and prepare to be horrified.

Macedonia has had enough defeats. You should all be protesting. For once. Just once. Just for one day. If you show one moment of passion for your nation, watch the diaspora turbo charge the effort. Instead you talk about being so clever and having a strategy for the future. It's a sad joke.

Dvenov,

You're either having a laugh, completely delusional or on drugs. Maybe you're not even Macedonian.

The Macedonians in Macedonia are worthless, degenerate dogs.

If they were worthy of the air they breathe, they would have hunted down their politicians, hanged them in Macedonia Square, and left them to rot in public back in 1992.

Negotiating the non-negotiable in NEVER right. Continuing to do it is NEVER right. Apologising for it and saying we "have" to keep negotiating is NEVER right.

The last thing we need now is another Fyromian apologist telling us to stay quiet and allow the chain of events that will lead to our complete annihilation happen.

For someone to come out with that same Gligorovist mouth faeces 30 years later on the eve of our final catastrophe is absolutely mind-boggling.

Got sit at your master's feet and don't bother me with your pathetic dribbling.

[QUOTE=dvenov;172022]Because they are already started and ending them abruptly isn't the right way to go about it. Regardless of the fact that the negotiations are, for the lack of better word, 'forced' upon us by EU/NATO, we will show more maturity if we are willing to have a dialogue since we've already been shoehorned into this by EU/NATO. The same is true for Greece, they've been shoehorned into this as well.

What happens at the end of the dialogue is another matter. Im not saying there's no room to be worried or afraid, Im very worried as well, but not from our people or the fyromians as they are called here, but by our government and the international community who are not very open about the things that are discussed. I'm of personal belief that forcing this dialogue solely for the purpose of joining EU and NATO, 2 organizations that may or may not exist 10/20 or 50 years from now, is not the wisest choice if we consider our long term national interests. But as I said, we are in the position that we're in and continuing to talk is the better option because it shows that as a country and as people we are willing to talk to resolve problems, regardless of how absurd this whole thing is in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Clearly you haven't been following this forum for the last couple of years, because if you had, you would be well aware of all the logical flaws that have been exposed time and time again regarding the lines of thought you just regurgitated above.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;172024]Dvenov,

You're either having a laugh, completely delusional or on drugs. Maybe you're not even Macedonian.

The Macedonians in Macedonia are worthless, degenerate dogs.

If they were worthy of the air they breathe, they would have hunted down their politicians, hanged them in Macedonia Square, and left them to rot in public back in 1992.

Negotiating the non-negotiable in NEVER right. Continuing to do it is NEVER right. Apologising for it and saying we "have" to keep negotiating is NEVER right.

The last thing we need now is another Fyromian apologist telling us to stay quiet and allow the chain of events that will lead to our complete annihilation happen.

For someone to come out with that same Gligorovist mouth faeces 30 years later on the eve of our final catastrophe is absolutely mind-boggling.

Got sit at your master's feet and don't bother me with your pathetic dribbling.[/QUOTE]

Lol, when everyone trying to be diplomatic and all Vangelovski is interested in is being Vangelovski :thumbup1:

[url]http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-officialy-renames-airport-highway-to-appease-greece-02-15-2018[/url]

[B]Macedonia to Scrap Alexander Signs To Appease Greece[/B]

Macedonia said it will start replacing 'Alexander the Great' name signs from the busiest airport and highway – once its decision to rename them to satisfy Greece becomes official

Macedonia will soon start replacing the old “Alexander the Great” name signs from Skopje airport and from the E-75 highway that leads toward Greece.

The government's decision to rename key infrastructure was published on Thursday in the official gazette.

New signs erected along the highway will instead bear the new name, “Friendship”. The airport will be simply renamed “Skopje International Airport”.

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev announced that Macedonia would rename the airport and the highway as part of concessions reached with his Greek counterpart, Alexis Tsipras, at their first meeting at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on January 24.

The move was designed to ease relations with Greece, in the hope that this would increase the chances of successfully concluding UN-sponsored bilateral talks on Macedonia'a name. This would then unlock Macedonia’s stalled EU and NATO accession process.

The long-standing "name" dispute centres on Greece's insistence that use of the word Macedonia implies a territorial claim to the northern Greek province of the same name. Athens insists that a new name must be found that makes a clear distinction between the Greek province and the country.

As a result of the unresolved dispute, in 2008, Greece blocked Macedonia’s NATO entry and it has also blocked the start of Macedonia’s EU accession talks, despite several positive annual reports from the European Commission on the country’s progress.

Greece also saw the old names of the airport and highway as a deliberate provocation, insisting that the ancient warrior king Alexander the Great was an exclusive part of its own, Hellenic heritage.

Athens has praised its neighbour’s move to rename infrastructure as a step in the right direction towards building mutual trust.

Meanwhile, the UN-sponsored talks between the two sides are expected to resume soon.

At the last meeting, on Tuesday, in Vienna, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias and his Macedonian counterpart, Nikola Dimitrov, discussed details about a possible name agreement for a marathon seven hours.

After that meeting, Macedonian Prime Minister Zaev said progress has been made in three out of seven points contained in the latest proposal package for a name solution forwarded by UN mediator Matthew Nimetz. He did not reveal specific details.

“That is a signal for us and encouragement for the Greek side that it is possible to find a solution,” Zaev told Macedonian media on Wednesday.

Unofficially, possible name solutions involve using adjectives such as “Upper”, “Northern” or “New” in front of the term “Macedonia”.

But these lie only in the realm of speculation. Hardline Greek nationalists oppose any use of the term "Macedonia" by their northern neighbour.

Greek officials have also said they would like to see a name change that would be “erga omnes”, for all uses, not just bilateral use, and want changes made to the Macedonian constitution to eliminate all risk of Macedonian irredentism.

Zaev said earlier this month that his country was ready to accept a compound name with a geographical qualifier put alongside the name Macedonia.

The government did not comment on making constitutional changes, which would require a two-third majority in parliament, which it does not have.

[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;172026]Lol, when everyone trying to be diplomatic and all Vangelovski is interested in is being Vangelovski :001_cool:[/QUOTE]Mate, I'm about to be a stateless, nationless man. The time for being diplomatic was in 1991. Protests were called for in early 1992, but by the end of the year we should have had our night of the long knives. Anything but civil war beyond 1993 has been absolute horseshit.

Once this is done, they will never reverse it. Just like the ventilator that everyone over there now calls the "Macedonian" flag.

Bulgarians making their moves to become a factor in the negotiations...


[QUOTE][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/bulgaria-wades-into-macedonia-name-dispute/2018/02/16/831056ee-132a-11e8-a68c-e9374188170e_story.html?utm_term=.9a16f75c1334[/url]

[B]Bulgaria wades into Macedonia name dispute[/B]

SKOPJE, Macedonia — Bulgaria has waded into a 25-year-long dispute between Greece and Macedonia regarding Macedonia’s name, saying that issue also concerns Bulgaria.

Macedonia and Greece are in a renewed push to resolve their dispute. Greece objects to its northern neighbor using the name, saying it implies territorial claims on its own province of Macedonia. One solution being discussed is to add a qualifier such as “new,” ‘’upper” or “north” to the name.

Bulgarian President Rumen Radev said Friday after meeting with his Macedonian counterpart Gjorge Ivanov that any name agreed on with Athens should not include “a geographical qualifier that is related to the territory of Bulgaria.” He did not explain further.

The historical territory of Macedonia included lands that are now in Greece, Bulgaria and the country that calls itself Macedonia.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE][B]NOTE:[/B] Racial slurs edited and noted in [I]Italic[/I]

[url]http://greece.greekreporter.com/2018/02/16/bulgaria-issues-warning-over-macedonia-name-dispute/[/url]

[B]Bulgaria Issues Warning Over ‘Macedonia’ Name Dispute[/B]

Bulgaria’s president has said his country backed a solution to the name dispute between Greece and the [I]Republic of Macedonia[/I] but warned a new name should not encroach on Bulgarian territory.

Rumen Radev was speaking to reporters after meeting [I]Macedonian[/I] counterpart Gjorge Ivanov.

“We back the solution of the name contest between Skopje and Athens. Our position is clear: the solution of the name contest should not contain any geographical elements which in itself, hints at territorial parts belonging to Bulgaria,” he said.

Nationalists in Bulgarian have previously hit out at Greece, accusing it of usurping the name Macedonia.

Bulgaria’s Defence Minister Krasimir Karakachanov has previously said Sofia also had an equal right to the historical, cultural term ‘Macedonia‘.[/QUOTE]