[QUOTE=Stojacanec;171408]vistina e taka?[/QUOTE]

Јас незнам од каде сте брат, ама во мојето искyство, зивејан во Македонија, Европа и Австралија, диаспората остана да се бори за македонизмот. Жителите од република Македонија, особено граѓаните мајките ќе си ги продаат ако можат. А за тије на село...

Every noise online points to the name change being imminent.
While gruevski was a criminal behind doors, this zaev has no filter. Amazing.

[QUOTE=Tomche Makedonche;171396][SIZE="3"][B]Exhibit A = [U]European Slav[/U][/B][/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"][B]Exhibit B = [U]Indigenous Macedonian[/U][/B][/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]

That right there is what is wrong with FYROM. The Gligorovs of FYROM and the rest of the Slav Macedonians. This is because the Slav Macedonian will never see Macedonia quite the same way as the Ingenious Macedonian sees Macedonia - as his natural homeland.

To the Slav Macedonian, no matter how much he professes his patriotism, the country will always be just some random region that his Russian ancestors once settled which holds no real national value or connection with him. With this mindset, is it any wonder why the Fyromian is so quick to negotiate away his national identity at the drop of a hat? He feels no affinity to the land, the history or spirit of the place. The essence of his soul is somewhere far away and not in Macedonia. That is why it is easy for him to see his country renamed to New Macedonia. In his mind, he is already a new Macedonian so it's only logical. The Slav Macedonian will tell you “we want to be a proud new and modern European nation striving forward and embracing the great European ideals and values of the 21st Century not stuck in 19th Century Balkan nationalist politics”. And who can argue with that. You couldn't even if you wanted to. The Slav Macedonian will always look down on the descendants of Alexander The Great as simple minded and uneducated peasants who are an embarrassment to the rest of the nation.

Tomche, I was hesitant at first to accept your "European Slav" outlook because I just didn't believe that many Macedonians felt that way. But I don't know now.

There are still indigenous Macedonians in Macedonia, and they (for the most part) are sitting by idly and saying to themselves (as Gocka has observed): "But what can I do about it?"

[QUOTE=kompir;171411]Јас незнам од каде сте брат, ама во мојето искyство, зивејан во Македонија, Европа и Австралија, диаспората остана да се бори за македонизмот. Жителите од република Македонија, особено граѓаните мајките ќе си ги продаат ако можат. А за тије на село...[/QUOTE]

Koga bev na odmor vo Makedonija pred 12 godini, i zboraa za siptarite eden (od celo) vikase “ke na zgazat” a drug “ako go sakat (del) ke si go zemat”….. opasno.

[url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/presents-proposals-greece-macedonia-dispute-52413341[/url]

[B]UN presents new proposals on Greece-Macedonia name dispute[/B]

U.N. mediator Matthew Nimetz presented new proposals Wednesday to resolve a 25-year-old dispute between Greece and Macedonia over the Balkan nation's name and said he should know within two months whether progress can be made.

Nimetz told reporters after meeting with negotiators from both countries he is "very hopeful that this process is moving in a positive direction."

"I really believe that we have leadership in both Athens and Skopje that genuinely want a solution," he said. "They don't just say they want a solution. I think they believe it's in the national interest of both countries to solve this problem."

Nimetz said the negotiators are taking his ideas back to their capitals and both governments have invited him to visit, which he expects to do in "the next couple of weeks."

"I think in the next month, two months, (is) a good period in which we should know whether we can make some good, serious progress here or not," he said.

If there is a green light, Nimetz said, it's possible to solve the problem in six months.

He wouldn't comment on the ideas he presented but said "I myself don't think it's realistic to expect the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia not to have Macedonia in some form in its name."

Greece maintains its northern neighbor's name implies a territorial claim to its own adjoining province of Macedonia — home of Alexander the Great, one of the most famous ancient Greek rulers.

Officially called the Republic of Macedonia when it peacefully gained independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, the country was admitted to the United Nations in 1993 under the provisional name of The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because of the dispute with Greece.

As a NATO member, Greece has blocked Macedonia's bid to join the alliance because of the name dispute. Athens is also angry at Macedonia's appropriation of ancient Macedonian history. Macedonia counters that it covers a region that has been known as Macedonia for a long time.

Nimetz, the personal envoy of Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, said the leaders of Greece and Macedonia "both have national interests they want to pursue ... (and) they have to make some tough choices."

"I think the people of the region are ready to solve this problem," he said. "The international community really wants it solved."

But Nimetz said there are people in Greece and Macedonia "that have a very negative attitude" and no clear solution to the problem.

"This dispute has gone on for 25 years. Should it go on for another 25 years? Is that going to be helpful to the people, to the young people, in the area? I don't think so," he said. "Each country is a democracy and they're going to work it out their way, and if they don't want an agreement there won't be an agreement."

But Nimetz said the leaders and the situation in the region are different now.

"I view this as a good set of ideas, a compromise and a package that both sides should feel comfortable with, and lead to a dignified and satisfactory solution," he said.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nato-chief-due-in-macedonia-to-discuss-membership-bid/2018/01/17/0fd1c870-fba1-11e7-9b5d-bbf0da31214d_story.html?utm_term=.0069b77dd296[/url]

[B]NATO chief due in Macedonia to discuss membership bid[/B]

SKOPJE, Macedonia — NATO's secretary-general arrived in Macedonia on Wednesday for talks on the country's renewed accession bid, a decade after a dispute with neighboring Greece halted an initial effort to join the alliance.

Jens Stoltenberg will have meetings in the capital, Skopje, on Thursday with the new left-led government, which came to power last year and has pledged to try and resolve the more than two-decade quarrel with Greece.

The two countries disagree over Macedonia's name. Greece, which as a NATO member blocked its neighbor's NATO access in 2008, says it implies territorial claims on its own northern province of Macedonia. Macedonia denies that.

The dispute dates to 1991 when Macedonia peacefully gained independence from the former Yugoslavia. Greece recognizes the country as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia

[QUOTE=vicsinad;171414]Tomche, I was hesitant at first to accept your "European Slav" outlook because I just didn't believe that many Macedonians felt that way. But I don't know now.

There are still indigenous Macedonians in Macedonia, and they (for the most part) are sitting by idly and saying to themselves (as Gocka has observed): "But what can I do about it?"[/QUOTE]

We have known a difference has come to exist for a long time now within the Republic, how to accurately define it has evolved over the years and is still debatable. What can be generally accepted is that the difference has been essentially ideologically based, most likely derived from a product of Yugoslavian (perhaps even Soviet influenced) communist indoctrination. I relate it to a kind of synthetic virus, a virus which has, contrary to its original intention, found a way to adapt itself in order to survive independently after the original host died, and now seeks to mutate itself to accommodate new similar hosts.

I have mentioned this before but the question I fear we may have to start to consider asking at some point is whether this process has evolved the virus into something more than just a difference in ideology, whether it is in fact becoming a difference in identity.

I feel it is this element which makes acceptance become a complicated matter, as acceptance could see our path directed towards an alternate trajectory, one which right now may be premature to commit to as its consequences may prove to be detrimental to the cause, hence in this respect I share your hesitations.

Nevertheless, the difference exists. Its extent is what needs to be accurately determined.

Can we now confidently state there are two separate Macedonian identities existing within the Republic? (i.e. The European Slav whose Macedonian identity is derived from a regional sense similar to the “Greek” Macedonian; and The Indigenous Macedonian whose Macedonian identity is derived from an ethnic ancestral sense).

Although I've highlighted its likely existence, to be honest, I couldn’t wholly or officially commit to such a conclusion at this point, but there certainly appears to be more and more indicators that point towards that direction, a prime and convincing example being the article that you responded to.

I suppose I am. If I had no hope at all then, I would be well on my way to being good old Yankee doodle George Peterson rather than Goce Petreski. On the other hand, who am I kidding, if any of these cunts were able to reflect or had remorse, you figure it would have kicked in by now.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;171327]...lol

Gocka, it sounds like you're still hanging onto a gossamer of hope that they'll see the error in their ways, even when the end has finally come...like some deathbed confession.[/QUOTE]

Apparently Greece will allow a new name that contains the word Macedonia, but here's the catch, it will not allow it to be translated into English. In other words, Greece will hold a monopoly to the English word "Macedonia". Macedonia's new name will be spelled in Serbian Latinica, ex. "Severna Makedonija", and that's the name to be used in all international organizations. In the olympics we will march under the letter "S", not "M", and not even "N" for Northern Macedonia, but "S" for "Severna Makedonija".

The only other state I can think of that is not allowed to translate its name in English is Bosnia's autonomous region of "Republika Srpska" Link: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republika_Srpska[/url]