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Risto the Great 07-19-2011 09:10 PM

Is that a job well done by the Gruevski government makedonche?

Pelister 07-19-2011 09:14 PM

Gruevski is full of shite, and so is the U.S.

The Macedonians are the ones who created the 'negotiations' - not the U.N and not the Greeks. It is not something that would have naturally evolved, or come into being. The 'negotiations' or bilateral negotiations, were instigated on the decision and request of Macedonian politicians!

When the U.S is telling the Macedonians to 'solve it', it really just becomes a self perpetuating process, and the only people winning are the politicians like Gruevski. This whole process brings Macedonia precariously close to extinction, or historical revisionism - either, or. The average Macedonian doesn't understand the facts on the 'negotiations' nor the historical and political conditions that gave rise to it. The Macedonian people believe that we are 'negotiating' because Greece and the U.N (now the E.U and NATO) are forcing us to do it. Nothing could be futher from the truth.

Some facts about the 'negotiations'.

1. We are not officially, nor effectively blocked from the United Nations, according to legal experts
2. Macedonian politicians created the 'negotiations'
3. Macedonian politicians have intentionally misled the Macedonian people into believing that a) we are blocked from the U.N and b) the 'negotiations' is the only way to be admitted. Both are lies.
4. Macedonian politicians have intentionally misled Macedonians into believing that the requirements of admission to the U.N are the same as the E.U and NATO. They are not! Again, we are not prevented from being admitted to the U.N
5. It was Macedonian politicians (I am not sure who yet), who moved the issue of our admission out of the U.N (not sure of the precise date yet, but I will find it).
6. This move had nothing to do with our admission to the U.N - it came about with only two possible reasons and intentions, a) Macedonian politicians were not aware of their legal rights at the UN institution, b) They intentionally set the Macedonian State onto the path of change, intending to change the name, all along.
7. Macedonian politicians are not '[I]discussing[/I]' our historical identity. They are '[I]negotiating[/I]' it! This puts our political existence precariously close to destruction, it opens the flood gate to unnecessary internal meddling, and allows all foriegn countries the tantalizing opportunity to push us around. This is something Macedonian poltiicians are actually inviting.
8. Macedonian politicians (and UMD for that matter) don't want the average Macedonian to realise that moving the question of our admission back into the U.N, and pursuing our remedies within that institution, will have us admitted within a matter of many months. Imagine, how many countries would recognise if our countries name was in the U.N?
9. The external pressure is largely created by Macedonian politicians, who prefer it, because it is a public relations coup for them. What better way to gain the support of the misled masses than to demonstrate they are 'doing something'.
10. The real threat is an internal one

makedonche 07-19-2011 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;105817]Is that a job well done by the Gruevski government makedonche?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely - and all the other weak pricks he has surrounded himself with and those other weak pricks that came before him!
And if he didn't actually do it, then he didn't try hard enough to stop it!

MHRMI 07-19-2011 10:33 PM

[SIZE="4"][B]MHRMI and AMHRC Denounce Clinton’s Demands that Macedonia “Solve” the Name Dispute[/B][/SIZE]

[B]Toronto and Melbourne (July 19, 2011)[/B] - Macedonian Human Rights Movement International ([B]MHRMI[/B]) and the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee ([B]AMHRC[/B]) denounce US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s statement that, [I]“The government in Skopje needs to know that it will not be able to move forward on its European integration until it does resolve this (issue). And, obviously, Greece has to be willing to accept how the name is resolved.”[/I]

In other words Clinton has told a sovereign nation – Macedonia - that it must surrender the most basic right possessed by any state – the right to self-identification; if it wants to become a part of Europe. The US, ‘leader of the free world’, as on other occasions in relation to Macedonia, has shown itself to be unequal to the task of upholding the most basic tenants of liberty and indeed international law.

The United States recognized Macedonia in 2004, yet it calls for a name change. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Considering the apparent inability of the EU to manage its economic affairs properly, MHRMI and AMHRC are not at all convinced that Macedonia’s membership in such an institution is in its best interests. However, the point is that we cannot abide by declarations which amount to the blackmail of ‘forgo your rights and change your name or else’. We have written to the State Department demanding an explanation and immediate US condemnation of the name negotiations.

[B]MHRMI[/B] and [B]AMHRC[/B] began an advertising campaign in Macedonia over a year ago, advocating an end to the farcical and racist name “negotiations” between Macedonia and Greece. For anyone interested in joining the [B]Our Name is Macedonia[/B] campaign, please use the following link: [url][/url]

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information: [url][/url],, facebook, [email][email protected][/email], 416-850-7125.

Established in 1984 the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee (AMHRC) is a non governmental organisation that advocates before governments, international institutions and broader communities about combating discrimination and promoting basic human rights. Our aspiration is to ensure that Macedonian communities and other excluded groups throughout the world are recognised, respected and afforded equitable treatment. For more information please visit [url][/url], or contact AMHRC by email [email][email protected][/email] or via +61 3 93298960.

George S. 07-20-2011 01:44 AM

I did say a long time ago that greece really doesn't want macedonia in the name otherwise they would have accepted rom skopje .A name without mavcedonia would be diasstrous for the macedonian identity.It's a shame we don't have the calibre of politicians to tell the world how we feel.How stupid & silly & anything else you care to name us but macedonia will suffice we have been known for many milenias as macedonians.Why do we need to compromise fuck greece & fuck the eu.If the us is going to be a two faced bitch dog we need to tell them so.How many times have we noticed that the us is stabbing us in the back.Can anyone really beleive in the us anymore after what it is asking us to do?

Zarni 07-20-2011 05:02 AM

[QUOTE]Zarni, I heard something about that on the radio. Do you have a link?

Sadly no I dont

TrueMacedonian 07-21-2011 10:25 AM

DUI: SDSM Would Agree to Anything to be in Power

[B]DUI: SDSM Would Agree to Anything to be in Power [/B]

Wednesday, 20 July 2011

After a fierce debate in Parliament, where the opposition led by SDSM accused the ruling Government of not protecting Macedonia's national interests, DUI from the podium in parliament said things that Macedonians suspected all along.

Some would say this is a sad day, but in reality, it's a good day when an ethnic Albanian party defends Macedonia's national interests from an internal culprit, in this case an ethnic Macedonian party.

The SDSM accused the ruling government of selling out Macedonia's national interest by allowing minorities in small villages who are over 50% of the population to fly their own flag which with the new law is three times smaller than the Macedonian flag. It also allows politicians to speak their own language if they receive a question from a member of their ethnic community. For the SDSM, this is 'selling out'! *In SDSM's defense, selling the biblical name of the country is a business transaction for which they received suticases with cash.

Ademi, one of the higher ranking DUI officials, appeared amused as he stood at the podium in Parliament. "Are you sure you should be talking about morals?" Ademi asked the opposition from the podium. "You (SDSM) were talking to us (DUI) about things that VMRO would not even consider. Don't sell yourself for something you are not, we all know who you are and what you do!" said Ademi to SDSM officials looking bleakly at the podium."

Ademi was not finished, he was just warming up...

"You (SDSM) were ready to offer us anything we asked for. Including making Albanian the official language on the entire territory, in Court and in Parliament, even letting us have someone from DUI as a Prime Minister. This was your promise to us."

SDSM officials remained gloomy during Ademi's entire speach. It only confirmed what Macedonian media wrote days after the elections. Namely, SDSM was ready to do just about anything to return to power even though they weren't elected.

Ironically, DUI has been under fire by the DPA for not getting anything from their coalition.

United MKD 07-21-2011 10:32 AM

True. So why didn't DUI decide to go in coalition with SDSM? I'm sure if those offers were on the table they wouldn't hesitate to take them rather then be with VMRO?

Soldier of Macedon 07-21-2011 11:15 AM

I take issue with regard to the below:
[QUOTE]It also allows [B]politicians to speak their own language[/B] if they receive a question from a member of their ethnic community. For the SDSM, this is 'selling out'![/QUOTE]
How can one be a politician in Macedonia yet cannot even speak Macedonian? [U]This is selling out[/U]. Period.

Crvenkovski is a traitor and a fool that is in no position to do anything. Can anybody refer me to a link where MINA have criticised the policies of Nikola Gruevski?

TrueMacedonian 07-21-2011 11:37 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;106086]I take issue with regard to the below:

How can one be a politician in Macedonia yet cannot even speak Macedonian? [U]This is selling out[/U]. Period.

Crvenkovski is a traitor and a fool that is in no position to do anything. Can anybody refer me to a link where MINA have criticised the policies of Nikola Gruevski?[/QUOTE]

Nothing much against Gruevski, however something interesting from 2008 about what MINA claims Gruevski wanted to do in office:


[B]PM Gruevski, sit back, relax [/B]
Wednesday, 29 October 2008

Prime Minister Gruevski was elected in office, overwhelmingly, with two reasons. [B]First to cut off negotiations with Greece[/B], second to put an end to the corruption that has plagued the country ever since its independence.

In regards to the ‘name negotiations’ with Greece, the Macedonian Government has exhibited remarkable failures. So much so, the UN negotiator Nimetz, with each proposal solidified his view to match Athens demands.
I never considered recent recognitions by Canada and India as “success”. What success is there when the Government continues to ‘negotiate’ over changing the country's name. [B]Even more disturbing, Skopje is adamant about continuing the negotiations, no matter what![/B]

[B]Recently the Government has released couple of balloons to see how the population may react. Something along the lines “No way are we giving up our national identity” or “Language and identity is our red line”. News for Dimitrov and Protogjer, if your country is the Banana republic, the language automatically becomes the “Banana Language”.
The identity and language are already registered in the UN as “Macedonian”, which makes it even more difficult to understand why the Government keeps mentioning preserving the language and identity, unless as I stated, the Government plans to change the name!?[/B]

The EU has said there will be no entrance in their ‘club’ if Macedonia doesn’t change the name! So why is the Government spending taxpayers money sending Ministers to Brussels on daily basis? I don't see Turkish Officials flying to Brussels and doing the same thing, and they are richer and more developed than dozen EU countries combined.

[B]I understand why the Government is ‘negotiating’. Macedonia wants to be seen as constructive, respectful, mature, diplomatic. However, it comes a point in time, and this point came months ago when Macedonia should have realized their constructive approach did not work, with good chance to never work.

One thing is clear, any kind of name change, even adding a letter will fail in a referendum, unless there are plans to fix the referendum, similar to the fixed Quebec secession referendum 51-49% a decade ago. Either way, PM Gruevski, just by his continuing negotiations has lost the backing, at least my backing. Will the Government disappoint the Macedonian people, the people who put them in power, overwhelmingly, remains to be seen.[/B]

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