Borce, welcome and thank you for a refreshing take on the matter.
I agree with you on many levels. I was very disappointed with the level of scrutiny by the attendees and also the level of real dialogue. As I mentioned during my question time, many of the UMD initiatives were terrific and Meto presented them very well. But the fundamental sweeping under the carpet of ideology remains a dark cloud over this organisation.

Again, thanks for your post.

[QUOTE=julie;37938]Alexandrov , Have you had an opportunity to view Risto the Great tape posted on the forum? Well articulated question with a less than satisfactory response.
I was also present[/QUOTE]

Yes I have. I broadly agree with Risto's view. I am not impressed by Meto's response in that clip, but it's not exactly worth going to war over - at least not before we have declared war on a Macedonian Government that seems quite popular at the moment, even among the diaspora, despite its unwavering and active commitment to the Interim Accord, the Ohrid Framework Agreement, and the inclusion of a coalition party led by Albanian racist terrorists, who keep on gaining unjust rewards for their aggression and constant threats. For now, I prefer to try and bridge the policy gap with UMD, rather than take an adversarial approach that is likely to increase it. And if we must ultimately go to war, let's make it a war of principles and ideas, rather than a war of personalities or allegiances to personalities, organizations, states or other institutions.

the only allegiance I have , my brother, is to my Macedonian identity and culture.
My choice is not to participate in any negotation for my beautiful Macedonian name.
The Macedonian flag our ancestors have died under has been compromised in negotations.
Negotations to enter into the bullshit EU ans NATO.
Isnt it just the biggest joke that Macedonia has lost soldiers in Iraq, and Afghanistan , yet is unrecognised.
The Republic of Macedonia is all well and good as is Democratic Macedonia bla bla bla.
(dad is from there - my MOTHER is from Aegean Macedonia. with a really big sad family history. What about the people in Pirinska Makedonia and Albanian Macedonia.
The UMD supports the wishes of the ROM government.
I thought the united macedonian DIASPORA reflected the views of the DIASPORA - something wrong here, I am diaspora, and I know my view is shared by many.
Jas sum Makedonka. period.

Julie,

We obviously have shared sentiments about the politics of successive Macedonian Governments. We also seem to share certain concerns about UMD policy. However, I think that the almost obsessive preoccupation on this and another forum with criticism of UMD is getting a little unhealthy for the cause.

UMD is not a government that coercively collects taxes from the Macedonian people and should therefore account to them. It is just a non-government organization that pursues objectives determined by its Board, which in turn is voluntarily supported by its members. If somebody doesn't like its policies and actions, the constructive way to channel that dissatisfaction is to constructively interact with its leadership in the hope of influencing its future direction and/or to just focus on supporting more favorable organizations. Sure, if we feel that the UMD or anybody else has misrepresented the Macedonians in the diaspora in some significant way, we can point that out in public, but let's not get too preoccupied with somebody having misrepresented our views. Isn't it better if we focus instead on improving the way we convey and act on our views ourselves?

[QUOTE=julie;37952]the only allegiance I have , my brother, is to my Macedonian identity and culture.
My choice is not to participate in any negotation for my beautiful Macedonian name.
The Macedonian flag our ancestors have died under has been compromised in negotations.
Negotations to enter into the bullshit EU ans NATO.
Isnt it just the biggest joke that Macedonia has lost soldiers in Iraq, and Afghanistan , yet is unrecognised.
The Republic of Macedonia is all well and good as is Democratic Macedonia bla bla bla.
(dad is from there - my MOTHER is from Aegean Macedonia. with a really big sad family history. What about the people in Pirinska Makedonia and Albanian Macedonia.
The UMD supports the wishes of the ROM government.
I thought the united macedonian DIASPORA reflected the views of the DIASPORA - something wrong here, I am diaspora, and I know my view is shared by many.
Jas sum Makedonka. period.[/QUOTE]


Amen!!!!!!

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;37974]Julie,

We obviously have shared sentiments about the politics of successive Macedonian Governments. We also seem to share certain concerns about UMD policy. However, I think that the almost obsessive preoccupation on this and another forum with criticism of UMD is getting a little unhealthy for the cause.

UMD is not a government that coercively collects taxes from the Macedonian people and should therefore account to them. It is just a non-government organization that pursues objectives determined by its Board, which in turn is voluntarily supported by its members. If somebody doesn't like its policies and actions, the constructive way to channel that dissatisfaction is to constructively interact with its leadership in the hope of influencing its future direction and/or to just focus on supporting more favorable organizations. Sure, if we feel that the UMD or anybody else has misrepresented the Macedonians in the diaspora in some significant way, we can point that out in public, but let's not get too preoccupied with somebody having misrepresented our views. Isn't it better if we focus instead on improving the way we convey and act on our views ourselves?[/QUOTE]One of the most intelligent responses I have read in a long time, thank you Aleksandrov.

Guy's I apologies that I didn't attend to the UMD meeting in Sydney last Friday as I said I would which I wanted to give some feed back to MTO..
Unfortunately something important came up and couldn't attend..#@$%@^
I wished I did..as I see not many from Sydney contributed in Questioning certain issues that we have with UMD...
Yes..it is true and a FACT..that young Macedonians who are proud but do not contribute or very little in the Macedonian community..unless it's sport...
When ever there is a festival or an event very few Young Macedonians attend, you see mostly older folks..
What will happen with the next Generation..? I Don't like the outcome…...

I attended the Sydney meeting also. While I fit in the under 40’s catergory( under 30’s actually) I was also disappointed by the lack of youth that turned up at the event. How many of the ‘stara vojska’ can put their hand on their heart and say they aksed/told their children to attend the meeting, even just to see what it was about??? Do these people talk about Macedonia to their kids at home?? My parents didn’t attend the event, nor did they tell me to attend, but I have an interest in the motherland and made an effort to hear Meto out, and see what the UMD are offering. While i’m disappointed at the younger generation for not making an effort, I’m also disappointed at the older generation for not involving their offspring.

I was also disappointed at the questions asked to Meto. It seems the people that asked the questions thought that Meto was the President of Macedonia or something. Not many questions were asked about the UMD as an organisation.

Meto came across as an intelligent person, and it was good to see what the UMD had achieved, what it was working on, and who it was working with. I too have been a bit of a sceptic about the UMD, and if anything I came out of this meeting with a bit more respect towards the organisation. It’s a good start for the organisation, but there is more work to be done if it wants to be an important representative of our diaspora.

Well Said Dejan

I think its great that the people actually went, i knew deep down that with communication and a joint cause a dialogue would be reached. Im shocked with Aleksandrov to be honest i would have never expected him to post that, it seems like he had a very good discussion with Metodija because before that im not so sure we would have seen that above post.

Im surprised in a good way by the way, well done guys and hopefully the UMD and Metodija can take into account what it is exactly our whole diaspora should stand for and protect.

[QUOTE=Rogi;37709]What does Australia have to lose by getting the Greek side offside?

Firstly, Greece is broke and now holds no international diplomatic leverage.

Secondly, trade between Australia and Greece is quite low (less than $250m with Australian exports to Greece only around $70m).

Thirdly, Greece is a member of the European Union and as such, the EU understanding of 'solidarity' requires Greece to support EU nations (Luxembourg) over anyone else in terms of things like UN Security Council seats and so on.


From every indicator I can find, Greece too, is not that important to Australia.
It is purely the Greek lobby in Australia. Nothing else really to it.[/QUOTE]


If Australian government politicians can be convinced that Greek representations are not to be trusted, or can be made to believe that the predatory tactics and threats of Greek lobby groups are all bark and no bite - we have a chance.

Isn't it interesting how the popularity of the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd has plummeted since he made the decision not to recognize the Republic of Macedonia? (Has anyone else noticed this?)

I am not saying that there is a connection, but if he can be made to believe there could be connection (however tenuous) he might rethink the Greek vote. What if Kevin Rudd has under-estimated the awareness and the depth of feeling among Australians with regard to recognition of the Macedonian Republic? After all Macedonians have been a part of Australian society for many generations - we live here, we have friends here...etc.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;37920]Thanks for sharing that with us borce...

I just wonder how far beyond the internet community does an awareness of UMD actually extend amongst the wider Macedonian population...most people agree that Meto is a polished performer on the stage and certainly not everything about them can be considered bad or evil but the fact that they have let themselves down with some very public "mistakes" is disturbing and perhaps has diminished their 'good' work overall...?[/QUOTE]

True.

There are some qualities about Meto and UMD that I can't help admire, but it is everything else that is lacking, specifically their very soft position (in some cases defence of) various anti-Macedonian processes.

I spoke to Meto and made my case to him why we should stop negotiating. He told me that we were not a country before 1944. So I made the case to him why we were, I talked about Macedonian society as the local level, our social structures and laws, our traditions ...etc.

[quote] Alexandrov wrote:
We obviously have shared sentiments about the politics of successive Macedonian Governments. We also seem to share certain concerns about UMD policy. However, I think that the almost obsessive preoccupation on this and another forum with criticism of UMD is getting a little unhealthy for the cause.

UMD is not a government that coercively collects taxes from the Macedonian people and should therefore account to them. It is just a non-government organization that pursues objectives determined by its Board, which in turn is voluntarily supported by its members. If somebody doesn't like its policies and actions, the constructive way to channel that dissatisfaction is to constructively interact with its leadership in the hope of influencing its future direction and/or to just focus on supporting more favorable organizations. Sure, if we feel that the UMD or anybody else has misrepresented the Macedonians in the diaspora in some significant way, we can point that out in public, but let's not get too preoccupied with somebody having misrepresented our views. Isn't it better if we focus instead on improving the way we convey and act on our views ourselves? [/quote]

In some ways Alexandrov is right.

We ought to find better ways of expresing our dissatisfaction, but how are we to do that? UMD made an effort to censor all criticism of its organization, i.e., legitimate criticism I might at - at Maknews. I don't think Alexandrov has any idea who UMD are representing in meetings with our leaders all over the world. Or has he considered that UMD are in fact in meetings with our leaders, our politicians and big wigs? I would certainly like to know what they are saying. Well, what are they saying? We can only guess, or take their word for it. What we know from public statements made by UMD is that they defend the talks, the Interim Accord, among other anti-Macedonian processes and institutions. Two or three threads criticising UMD is far from being 'obsessive' - which was precisely the case made by UMD at Maknews [I]before[/I] Maknews began banning.

If our criticisms are legitimate (I believe they are, after all the evidence comes from UMD statements), voicing it and expressing it can only be a benefit.

My knowledge of the Interim Accord was poor, but I got to know a little more about it and about UMD's position on these forums, which allowed me to make a case for change face-to-face with Meto a few weeks ago.

[QUOTE]There are some qualities about Meto and UMD that I can't help admire, but it is everything else that is lacking, specifically their very soft position (in some cases defence of) various anti-Macedonian processes.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly why we need people like Boris Zmejkovski and Mane Jakovlevski to be mentors and not allow our people to be pushed around. We do need to toughen up our stance thats for sure

[QUOTE=Prolet;38067]This is exactly why we need people like Boris Zmejkovski and Mane Jakovlevski to be mentors and not allow our people to be pushed around. We do need to toughen up our stance thats for sure[/QUOTE]

At the end of the day the reality is that UMD have to some degree failed the diaspora and this can't be compensated by Meto's stagecraft or "potential" as an activist...lets not lose sight of the fact that serious "mistakes" have been made that shouldn't be readily swept under the carpet...

I am asuming the Melbourne meeting is still on tomorrow, Any one from MTO attending?

[QUOTE=Pelister;38060]...

We ought to find better ways of expresing our dissatisfaction, but how are we to do that? UMD made an effort to censor all criticism of its organization, i.e., legitimate criticism I might at - at Maknews. ...[/quote]

Maknews certainly did no favors to UMD with the ednoumie-style censorship. All Maknews achieved by that was to increase suspicion about who UMD's leadership is really accountable to - if not the support base it gained through internet marketing and networking, and who is really determining UMD's policies, given that its office-bearers appeared incapable or unwilling to substantiate and defend them. The impression that UMD's office-bearers condoned or maybe even colluded in Maknews' censorship has made things even worse.

[quote]I don't think Alexandrov has any idea who UMD are representing in meetings with our leaders all over the world.[/quote]

Who - apart from the people taking part in those meetings - does? And how much of an idea do any of us have about private representations that are made by other Macedonian organizations - apart from any that we might be leading ourselves?

[quote]Two or three threads criticising UMD is far from being 'obsessive' - which was precisely the case made by UMD at Maknews [I]before[/I] Maknews began banning.[/quote]

Things have gone well beyond two or three threads criticizing the UMD. Criticisms of the UMD have taken up so much discussion time and space that an outsider might be excused for thinking the organization is a de facto Government of Macedonia. Threads with very specific policy discussion topics are being hijacked by repetitive criticisms of UMD that are only remotely related to the topic, if at all. I wonder how many of the fiery UMD critics realize that they might actually be doing the leadership of that organization a service, by making it appear as a victim of armchair warriors and the Tall Poppy Syndrome?

The biggest problem I see with the direction that UMD criticisms and responses to such criticisms are taking is the increasingly personal and offensive tone. In my experience, when policy disagreements among community activists and commentators are allowed to turn into personal animosity, the personal animosity tends to take precedence over and often outlive the policy disagreements. The obvious problem there is that when the adversaries eventually bridge the policy gap, they are unable to start working together in shared policy directions because of the ongoing personal animosity.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;38141]At the end of the day the reality is that UMD have to some degree failed the diaspora and this can't be compensated by Meto's stagecraft or "potential" as an activist...lets not lose sight of the fact that serious "mistakes" have been made that shouldn't be readily swept under the carpet...[/QUOTE]

I think I have made my views about what I see as the UMD's critical policy failures pretty clear. I am by no means suggesting that they be swept under the carpet. I am simply suggesting that we should give the UMD leadership space to revise what we see as fundamentally flawed or dangerous policy directions, and focus on leading by example, rather than just forcing them to dig bigger trenches.

alexandrov whats happening mate you are getting soft in your young age. i think umds leadership should earn back some respect and kudos through their deeds and words, until then criticsm is good.

let it also be said there a good patriots within umds membership

i would like to see umd hold elections asap. i also would like to know what is the umds relationship with metos political buddies in washington.

looking forward to seeing you in march and you make good points. its great to see young people involved and we should cut them some slack, but they are on notice now as is every macedonian organisation from our government down.

Hahahaha

I think this is the first time Aleksandrov has laughed, i think he has soften up a bit Osiris i noticed myself but i guess thats not such a bad thing after all, maybe he'll crack a few more jokes and even join our footy tipping competition LOL

[QUOTE=Prolet;38221]Hahahaha

I think this is the first time Aleksandrov has laughed, i think he has soften up a bit Osiris i noticed myself but i guess thats not such a bad thing after all, maybe he'll crack a few more jokes and even join our footy tipping competition LOL[/QUOTE]

I laugh at you all the time, Prolet. I just do it quietly to avoid offending you.:001_tongue:

I am seeing an increasingly popular trend with some people here.

First, we are all in unison about the UMD and their pathetic, weak and bordering on treacherous statements. And we had had enough! We were determined to keep everyone honest, whatever it takes.

Then, some of those that attended the UMD 'gatherings' have come back talking about how Meto is an intelligent bloke, etc. So? Have we all forgotten what he and his fellow board members said and wrote? Have we not given them ample time to reflect, retract and revise when and where necessary? The youtube clip posted by Risto the Great clearly shows how much Meto and the UMD have retracted and revised. They haven't. Meto is still trying to justify the 'democratic' prefix, he still required others to jump in for his defence to avoid the 'hard' questions, or better yet, to avoid providing the 'hard' answers. Meto is a well spoken, stand-up and smart guy? His responses to Risto the Great didn't seem to highlight such qualities. I couldn't give a shit either way. I won't throw my support behind the UMD because Meto is a 'good bloke'. The UMD have shown that their policies are not in line with the Macedonian Cause as defined at the MTO (by its members) - Furthermore, they support their current policies, and nothing they have shown as of late indicates a change in that regard. A hundred excuses, and nothing solid, first Meto was too young, then Meto was only following the government, then 'democratic' isn't so bad, etc, etc. Please tell me that somebody else can still see what we all saw not long ago?

I hope they survive as an organisation, but not in the role they are currently trying to pursue, for, where it concerns the Macedonian identity and integrity, the UMD have shown themselves to be a dangerous organisation. And, for the average Macedonian like myself, they have a long way to go before they (re)gain respect from me.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;38268]I am seeing an increasingly popular trend with some people here.

First, we are all in unison about the UMD and their pathetic, weak and bordering on treacherous statements. And we had had enough! We were determined to keep everyone honest, whatever it takes.

Then, some of those that attended the UMD 'gatherings' have come back talking about how Meto is an intelligent bloke, etc. So? Have we all forgotten what he and his fellow board members said and wrote? Have we not given them ample time to reflect, retract and revise when and where necessary? The youtube clip posted by Risto the Great clearly shows how much Meto and the UMD have retracted and revised. They haven't. Meto is still trying to justify the 'democratic' prefix, he still required others to jump in for his defence to avoid the 'hard' questions, or better yet, to avoid providing the 'hard' answers. Meto is a well spoken, stand-up and smart guy? His responses to Risto the Great didn't seem to highlight such qualities. I couldn't give a shit either way. I won't throw my support behind the UMD because Meto is a 'good bloke'.

[/QUOTE]I think we have prosti narod that fall into the trap, where in there mind, They see someone dressed in a suit, anounced as President, who has a strong American accent, some how are lead to believe in there own minds, "who are we to question. This Man knows what he is doing. We have no right to dought him"

The Germans once had Adolf Hitler, who was also dressed in a suit, who was known as fuhrer, who no one dared to question. We all know how acurate he was.


I am not calling meto Adolf Hitler, but i can safely call his right hand man that tried to stop RTG during questioning a SS or kostapo.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;38268]I am seeing an increasingly popular trend with some people here.

First, we are all in unison about the UMD and their pathetic, weak and bordering on treacherous statements. And we had had enough! We were determined to keep everyone honest, whatever it takes.

Then, some of those that attended the UMD 'gatherings' have come back talking about how Meto is an intelligent bloke, etc. So? Have we all forgotten what he and his fellow board members said and wrote? Have we not given them ample time to reflect, retract and revise when and where necessary? The youtube clip posted by Risto the Great clearly shows how much Meto and the UMD have retracted and revised. They haven't. Meto is still trying to justify the 'democratic' prefix, he still required others to jump in for his defence to avoid the 'hard' questions, or better yet, to avoid providing the 'hard' answers. Meto is a well spoken, stand-up and smart guy? His responses to Risto the Great didn't seem to highlight such qualities. I couldn't give a shit either way. I won't throw my support behind the UMD because Meto is a 'good bloke'. The UMD have shown that their policies are not in line with the Macedonian Cause as defined at the MTO (by its members) - Furthermore, they support their current policies, and nothing they have shown as of late indicates a change in that regard. A hundred excuses, and nothing solid, first Meto was too young, then Meto was only following the government, then 'democratic' isn't so bad, etc, etc. Please tell me that somebody else can still see what we all saw not long ago?

I hope they survive as an organisation, but not in the role they are currently trying to pursue, for, where it concerns the Macedonian identity and integrity, the UMD have shown themselves to be a dangerous organisation. And, for the average Macedonian like myself, they have a long way to go before they (re)gain respect from me.[/QUOTE]

SoM,

For the record, my recorded objections to past and present UMD policies and acts and omissions have not changed since meeting Meto, although I am a little more hopeful now (and I never lacked hope completely) that we might be able to bridge the gap in future. I conveyed my personal impressions from the meeting with him on this board because questions were raised about the effect of his visit. But I have consistently tried to make a distinction between personality and policy matters. I have also tried to encourage UMD critics to channel their alternative views in a way that more effectively fulfills their intended policy results. I have been doing that outside of this forum for a while now. That should not be interpreted as a substantial change of heart on my part, either by UMD supporters or critics.

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;38226]I laugh at you all the time, Prolet. I just do it quietly to avoid offending you.:001_tongue:[/QUOTE]

Aleksandrov, Its about time too

How can i take offense from a fellow Skopjanec? you dont complain ako te zaebavat you just have to zaebavaj back, its always been that way. Those who complain dont get very far LOL

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;38268]I am seeing an increasingly popular trend with some people here.

First, we are all in unison about the UMD and their pathetic, weak and bordering on treacherous statements. And we had had enough! We were determined to keep everyone honest, whatever it takes.

Then, some of those that attended the UMD 'gatherings' have come back talking about how Meto is an intelligent bloke, etc. So? Have we all forgotten what he and his fellow board members said and wrote? Have we not given them ample time to reflect, retract and revise when and where necessary? The youtube clip posted by Risto the Great clearly shows how much Meto and the UMD have retracted and revised. They haven't. Meto is still trying to justify the 'democratic' prefix, he still required others to jump in for his defence to avoid the 'hard' questions, or better yet, to avoid providing the 'hard' answers. Meto is a well spoken, stand-up and smart guy? His responses to Risto the Great didn't seem to highlight such qualities. I couldn't give a shit either way. I won't throw my support behind the UMD because Meto is a 'good bloke'. The UMD have shown that their policies are not in line with the Macedonian Cause as defined at the MTO (by its members) - Furthermore, they support their current policies, and nothing they have shown as of late indicates a change in that regard. A hundred excuses, and nothing solid, first Meto was too young, then Meto was only following the government, then 'democratic' isn't so bad, etc, etc. Please tell me that somebody else can still see what we all saw not long ago?

I hope they survive as an organisation, but not in the role they are currently trying to pursue, for, where it concerns the Macedonian identity and integrity, the UMD have shown themselves to be a dangerous organisation. And, for the average Macedonian like myself, they have a long way to go before they (re)gain respect from me.[/QUOTE]


I think that one of the problems is the fact that you and few others have based their opinion on few issues that have been spinned and blown out of proportions. You should based your opinion on the facts, the entire facts. How many of you have followed UMD through the years to see everything that the organization has done. We get few people like Pelister who are frustrated with the current situaiton, past mistakes by the macedonian government and they hit it out at UMD. Ако не можеш по коњот, уди по самарот. And I think few on this board have fallen into that trap. Now also remember that there are Macedonian organization trying to discredit UMD for their benefit, which if [U]very wrong[/U]!

The reality is that UMD is frustrated with the situation we are in, and we are doing everything we can to get ourselves out of. Sometimes quietly, sometimes diplomatically, sometimes strategically. Our actions can not satisfy everybody's taste, but the growing support for our organization has demonstrated that we are doing something right.

What is UMD? Not patriotic enough? I posted my op-ed piece.

Here are 3 advertisement that UMD paid to be published in the 3 daily newspapers in 2008, right before Bucharest to remind the president, prime minister and everybody else that it is their constitutional responsibility to defend our sovereign name.

[url]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/314/51/[/url]

[B]UMD Works to Protect Macedonia's Name PDF [/B]
Wednesday, 26 March 2008

WASHINGTON, D.C. - March 26, 2008 - On March 25, 2008, the United Macedonian Diaspora took out advertisements in three of Macedonia’s largest daily newspapers, Dnevnik, Utrinski Vesnik, and Vecer stressing that the Macedonian Diaspora is against any changes to Macedonia’s constitutional name. The advertisements titled “NATO Membership Might Have a Price, but the Macedonian Name and Identity Do Not” reminded the President and the Prime Minister of their constitutional duty to uphold Macedonia’s constitutional name.

Furthermore, UMD iterated that the Macedonian Diaspora is Macedonia’s biggest partner and will continue to support and invest in Macedonia’s future, regardless of Macedonia’s NATO membership. Over 80,000 people worldwide who adamantly reject any name changes have signed UMD’s petition against a name change for the Republic of Macedonia, and a recent poll conducted by a think tank in Skopje indicated that over 95% of the Macedonians are against a name change as the price for NATO membership. To read UMD's petition, click HERE .

[B]Our ancestors fought and died for a free, independent, and sovereign Macedonian State. Macedonia’s government must not allow Greece to blackmail Macedonia into a name change name that will have a negative impact on Macedonian identity, and Macedonia’s centuries-old history. The name of Macedonia for international use is Republic of Macedonia and should not be changed[/B].

Macedonia has compromised enough with Greece to resolve this imposed “name dispute.” Greece has simply ignored all of Macedonia’s concessions. If Greece violates the provisions in the 1995 Interim Accord between the two nations by vetoing Macedonia’s NATO membership,[B][U] then Macedonia should react and abandon these negotiation talks. [/U][/B]

Macedonia will continue its successful transition to a multi-ethnic democracy regardless of whether it joins NATO. It is NATO and the region, not the Republic of Macedonia, which will suffer the brunt of Greece’s anti-Macedonian fanaticism as NATO’s interests, past efforts, expansion, and prestige in the region will be irreparably damaged by a Greek veto of Macedonia’s NATO membership.

The advertisements (in Macedonian) can be seen by clicking on the following links:
[url]http://umdiaspora.org/images/dnevnikomdreklama.pdf[/url]
[url]http://umdiaspora.org/images/veceromdreklama.pdf[/url]
[url]http://umdiaspora.org/images/utrinskiomdreklama.pdf[/url]

UMD in Melbourne
 

I came back from the Govor that Metodija A Koloski gave and i must say i was very impressed, there were a few youngsters in their late 20s to mid 30s the rest were older people.

Metodija gave a very good speech and he gave the chance for many to ask questions some of them asked 3 questions at once and Meto answered them all. One person who is a historian (of Macedonian Decent) called Meto a young Goce Delchev and he was honored to be hearing what Meto was saying

Meto was welcomed like a superstar, people had their photos taken with him, they gave him gifts,books etc the older generation was very impressed others where skeptical however everybody agreed that we are on the right track. I myself was also impressed and i think we have alot of work to do.

Again Well Done to Meto and keep up the good work, this is exactly what we need.

How many people there Prolet?

Young Goce Delcev?

amitreski, thanks for reminding me about those advertisements. It was immediately after those advertisements that I joined the UMD and then encouraged many Macedonians to join with me. Those once powerful words have been diluted with the pitter patter of compromise both before and after they were published.

Nothing changed my opinion during my opportunity to question the UMD publicly. In fact, it forged my opinion. Rest assured I know how to answer a question and still manage to evade core aspects when I am hiding something. I do it all the time in business negotiations. But I will not blindly support an organisation purporting to represent all Macedonians in the Diaspora who tries the same thing with me. I suggest the UMD focuses on social aspects for Macedonia. Help the poor Macedonian people in the Republic etc. I am positive they will do this well. But leave policy and objectives pursuant to the Macedonian Cause to more mature and less compromising minds.

I would say about 220

Risto, Im just telling you what was said, they did everything except for picking him up on the Ramo and take him outside. The older generation was very impressed with him, UMD wants to open up an office in Canberra and strengthen its ties with our community in Australia.

Risto, Meto spent a good 45 minutes answering questions like i mentioned earlier there were people who had up to three questions and he answered them all. Why is it that not so many questions were asked in Adelaide?

Risto, That Historian said to Metodija "Koga te gledam tebe, go gledam mladiot Goce Delchev" and everyone started clapping. In all fairness to Meto he was very good and keep in mind that he only had three hours sleep, he has a very tight schedule and he had to fly over from Newcastle its not so easy.

Did they ask him if he was married? Or did they ask him some real questions?

Prolet, were you impressed with Meto's continual advocacy of the 'democratic' prefix?

Prolet, did anyone ask any questions of substance? Did they ask him about the Interim Accord or Framework Agreement?

I couldn't make it, though I had every intention. However, from photos I've seen and from what a few people told me, this is what I'm hearing;

There were 200 people, all older, except for about 10-15 under 40 years old. Actually it was all the same people that go to every Macedonian gathering or public forum.

More statements and stories were told than questions asked, everyone knows what I mean, that's pretty standard.. No real questions of substance. Lots of applause. It was very much as per usual for these forums.

Meto left positive impressions on most people and did a good promotion of UMD. I'm not sure how much that translates into memberships as it was all the same people who always attend Macedonian forums and donate.

Though most former and still active activists saw it as nothing new, it was everything that's been said a thousand times before. Though they still view it as somewhat good nonetheless, particularly because Meto is young.

The comparison between Meto and Delcev is a joke.

A used car salesman is also good at talking in a smooth fashion and telling people what they want to hear, but that doesn't make him Goce Delcev!?! With all due respect to the gentleman that made that comment, I find it absurd on so many levels. Only an infantile mind will see an analogy. With all the dubious positions held by the speaker, it's likely Delcev is rolling in his grave.

i will express my opinion about the Delchev comparation...

The Macedonian is hoping for a new leader, new Voj-voda(c).

We need new Delchev. After 20 years Republic of Macedonia, and 65 years independant Macedonian State, the humiliations and insults are not stoping.

So who can throw the first stone @ the uncle? :)
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I personaly dont see in UMD komitas, not even to speak about Voj-voda.

The self-proclaimed Board of Directors of the Macedonian Diaspora have before all, ask US, Macedonians, what are our goals.

If they think they can fight for those goals, and if WE think they are able to do that, they can be called representatives of the Emigration/Diaspora.

NOT before the Macedonians are asked.

[QUOTE=Prolet;38390]I came back from the Govor that Metodija A Koloski gave and i must say i was very impressed, there were a few youngsters in their late 20s to mid 30s the rest were older people.

Metodija gave a very good speech and [B]he gave the chance for many to ask questions some of them asked 3 questions at once [/B]and Meto answered them all. One person who is a historian (of Macedonian Decent) called Meto a young Goce Delchev and he was honored to be hearing what Meto was saying

Meto was welcomed like a superstar, people had their photos taken with him, they gave him gifts,books etc the older generation was very impressed others where skeptical however everybody agreed that we are on the right track. I myself was also impressed and i think we have alot of work to do.

Again Well Done to Meto and keep up the good work, this is exactly what we need.[/QUOTE]

I wish I was given the same opportunity. I asked for a supplementary question, and was told in no uncertain terms that I had my opportunity. The "impression" given of an open, fluid forum and exchange of ideas is a con ! Criticism is not Welcome as discovered at Maknews. I was impressed too by the end of the night, but the sophistry and deflection on the critical issues really said it all. I also noticed that Meto was particularly effective against younger and older Macedonian who have no understanding of the current forces and processes set up against them.

[QUOTE]Did they ask him about the Interim Accord or Framework Agreement?[/QUOTE]

What does that exactly have to do with UMD? They did not create those accords... You treat them as if they where the government of Macedonia... yet you pour more scorn on them then the actual government, which is responsible for each...

What exactly do you want them to do about these agreements and accords?? lobby against them? come out publicly against them?

Lets get one thing straight right now, the "framework Agreement" is a piece of paper to shut up the albanians for a while, make them go quite for the time being. It does not solve our problem with them, only buys us some time. They will want a greater Albania, the government sees NATO and the EU as an escape they will prevent a war with them.

Macedonia is now surrounded by NATO countries, meaning weapon sanctions translate into not 1 bullet entering the country. We dont have stockpiles of weapons (I dont understand why) this is how our arm was twisted in 2001 to capitulate.

So instead of kicking and screaming no framework agreement no interim accord, trying to find strategies around the blocks that are holding us back is much more productive and also much harder.

[QUOTE=Volk;38461]What does that exactly have to do with UMD? They did not create those accords... You treat them as if they where the government of Macedonia... yet you pour more scorn on them then the actual government, which is responsible for each...

What exactly do you want them to do about these agreements and accords?? lobby against them? come out publicly against them?

Lets get one thing straight right now, the "framework Agreement" is a piece of paper to shut up the albanians for a while, make them go quite for the time being. It does not solve our problem with them, only buys us some time. They will want a greater Albania, the government sees NATO and the EU as an escape they will prevent a war with them.

Macedonia is now surrounded by NATO countries, meaning weapon sanctions translate into not 1 bullet entering the country. We dont have stockpiles of weapons (I dont understand why) this is how our arm was twisted in 2001 to capitulate.

So instead of kicking and screaming no framework agreement no interim accord, trying to find strategies around the blocks that are holding us back is much more productive and also much harder.[/QUOTE]

I think the issue has been UMD's defence of these anti-Macedonian processes.

Most Macedonians are not aware of what the Interim Accord really means for us, or aware of the current negotiation "processes" or the terms being put to us...etc.

These are the people UMD preys on and has had good success recruiting. I think its no surprise that in the region I live in the younger Macedonians who are critical of UMD are better informed and better educated.

At the meeting I attended, no-one was aware that the President of UMD (Or Meto Koloski) was calling for a name change. Most Macedonians are not aware of this.

i remember another young hot shot who toured here a decade or soo ago he was feted as a voivoda too, and his name was l georgievski. sadly metos reception by our community is more a reflection of the desperatin and wishfull thinking that exists within some sections of our community, rather than his qualities or the umds contribution to the cause so far.

the only interesting things were , its the same old crowd, so umd are not bringing any new blood to our community. and more importantly where do these guys get there money to open offices. macedonian organisations usually struggle for funds wheras umd a newcomer to the cause seem to be flush with money.