[QUOTE=amitreski;35425]Sorry guys, but this is just crazy. I am lost for words and I have a vertigo from all the spinning here.

I can try to have a discussion with reasonable people, but this is just too much. I question the reason behind your questioning of UMD.

I put in front of you many statements that you wanted to hear, yet, you still find ways to create "conspiracies".

How about we talk about UMD supporting the Conference on Macedonian language in Utah. How about we talk about UMD flying Jill Daniels to the International Documentary Film Festival to screen "Next Year in Lerin". How about we talk about UMD organizing a global conference where Macedonians from 13 countries were present?

If you do not like UMD then do not support UMD. Support another Macedonian organization. But do not work against hard working Macedonians.

Maybe we have discovered a reason why Ilinden 1903 failed?[/QUOTE]

A.Mitreski,

Why would you be agreeing with Nimetz? Why is it "necessary" for us to negotiate?

Secondly, why does UMD have one position publicly and have a completely different position, in secret ? This alone baffles me.

And can you explain why you think our connection to the ancient Macedonians is a product of 19th century nationalism?

I am looking foward to your response.

[QUOTE=Buktop;35563]I know the referendum you speak of very well. Now how is it that SDSM's propaganda campaign was allowed to run unopposed? Did the opposition coalition not have enough funds to run their own media campaign?[/QUOTE]

VMRO-DPMNE first agreed to support SMK's referendum and then crawled into a shell after pressure from US and other foreign conductors.

[QUOTE=osiris;35432]mitreski are you able to give us a break down of where most of umds finacial support comes from.[/QUOTE]
On a public forum? Are you kidding?

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;35491]Have you held a general meeting of your membership to articulate or endorse the contentious policies? How many of your members support your opinion that the Framework Agreement as a great achievement of the late Boris Trajkovski? What forum have they expressed their support in? Since you've decided to try and belittle and discredit the critics of some of your policies as "few guys in Australia, Canada or USA sitting behind a PC on a public forum", you should answer that question clearly and directly, unless you have no problem appearing hypocritical.

Do you want to lead or follow the opinion of your general membership? The fact that you still work with a self-appointed Board of Directors that has decided not to have its first general election until 2011 suggests that you want to lead your membership in a particular direction. I can understand that, but you can't have it both ways. You can't severely restrict the power of your members when it comes to holding elections or general meetings, yet credibly use the membership as a shield to protect yourselves against policy criticism.[/QUOTE]

Having a self appointed board is because the organization was at its infancy and you want to get it off the ground. Since the organization has been founded we have seen increase in membership, increase in funding, increase of support. I guess we are doing something right.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;35479]This is a reasonable letter in my opinion.
I welcome the different path it treads from that of Meto's "mistake".
Why would you not make such broadcasts in the English language in suitable publications?

As an aside, the AMHRC is funding Greek and Bulgarian based organisations that fight for the rights you speak of in your last paragraph. They have made monthly cash contributions over many years to these organisations in order to keep up the fight. You should talk to them to find out more about this.[/QUOTE]

I am aware of their efforts and applaud them.

A Mitreski, What about the UMD list of achievements for 2009??

Risto

You are way off base. I clarified my statements in another topic here. UMD has never disregarded history. I questioned the timing and the strategy. Never the history, nor its validity. Those are two completely different things.

[QUOTE=amitreski;35658]The Democratic issue was at the time when 5 names were proposed by Nimitz (upper, northern, soveriegn, indendent and democratic I think). So a reasonable person would say, hey if add democratic to our name, and nothing else changed, and we can get past this "name issue" circus then we can focus on economy, cultural promotion, human rights. However, it was never that easy.[/QUOTE]
My goodness, we are back to square one again.
Now it was not a mistake, but merely a means to move forward.
Can you understand the frustration of your confused messages?

MPO is a traditonally been a pro Bulgarian organization. UMD has never had an [B]alliance[/B] with MPO. Risto, if you want to have an honest discussion do not twist words around.

Frankly, anyone that votes no should explain how they arrived at that conclusion.

Our Unified Voice is Being Heard and Our Efforts Continue! PDF Print E-mail
Monday, 28 December 2009

Dear Friends of Macedonia:

Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones!

As 2009 draws to an end, UMD is pleased to report that our unified voice is being heard and our efforts continue!

Founded in 2004, United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) is the leading international non-governmental organization addressing the interests and needs of Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world. Headquartered in Washington, D.C., UMD has offices in Melbourne, Australia, and Toronto, Canada, and representatives in Paris, London, Brussels, Vienna, Kiev, St. Petersburg, and Stuttgart.

UMD is a respected voice for the Macedonian Diaspora community worldwide, empowering Macedonian Diaspora grassroots educational advocacy, and informing international policy makers, media and the general public on issues important to Macedonians. UMD defends the constitutional and rightful name of Macedonia, supports strengthening of bilateral relations with Macedonia, advances the social and economic development of Macedonians, advocates for equal civil rights for all Macedonians, undertakes charitable activity at home and in Macedonia, and promotes Macedonian culture.

As recipients of the UMD E-Newsletter, Media Center Information, and Action Alerts, you are well aware of the UMD's activities and programs, and can appreciate the substantial human and financial resources our efforts require. UMD has a volunteer Board of Directors that plans activities and programs that further UMD’s mission and a full time professional staff member who oversees UMD’s day-to-day operations. UMD therefore still heavily relies on dedicated volunteers globally and your generous financial support to carry out its mission. Please visit our web site [url]www.umdiaspora.org[/url] for more information.

UMD is diligently preparing for projects and challenges in 2010 and your support is crucial to such efforts.

If you have not already, please become a UMD member now. If you are already a member, please renew your UMD membership now. Your membership fee is tax deductible in the United States, as UMD is an Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) non-profit organization.

Becoming a member and contributing is easy, by email, regular mail, fax or on line by clicking HERE.

Needless to say, it is the financial support we receive from you, the Macedonian Diaspora community that is the backbone of our efforts. Your good minds and dedication to community are the engine and the spirit that drive UMD.

As we move forward into 2010, below are some of the highlights of UMD projects that await your generous support:

Fund for Macedonian Children: UMD and its partners Splash of Hope and Macedonian Mission for Humanity will target poorer schools in Macedonia and deliver aid to elementary school children. This aid will be in the form of backpacks, notebooks, pens, pencils, crayons, rulers, erasers, and more.

UMD Australian Operations: The UMD President will travel to Australia and New Zealand in February 2010 to strengthen UMD Australian operations. UMD is organizing presentations in almost all communities, a Gala Banquet in Melbourne on February 20, 2010, meetings with Australian policy makers in Canberra and throughout Australia, a luncheon with federal Members of Parliament, and a reception for the diplomatic community in Canberra.

U.S. Census 2010: UMD and 9 other Macedonian-American organizations have joined hands to form the Macedonian-American 2010 Census Coalition to count Macedonians across the United States in the upcoming 2010 Census.

UMD Student Outreach and Internship Program: UMD is reaching out to Macedonian students throughout the world to learn about their needs and encouraging the forming of Macedonian Student Associations on campuses. UMD has initiated an internship program for students to gain experience in Washington, D.C., and will continue offering those internships in 2010.

UMD Macedonian Heritage Scholarship Program: UMD granted three scholarships to three exceptional young Macedonians in 2009. UMD intends to award six scholarships in 2010.

UMD Macedonian Cultural Awareness and Promotion: UMD is organizing a screening for the new documentary A Name is A Name in Washington, D.C. on February 1, 2010. We will also give grants to Macedonian organizations throughout the world organizing events promoting Macedonia’s rich heritage and traditions. UMD is also organizing a cultural evening on June 4, 2010, in Toronto open to all in conjunction with the 2nd UMD Global Conference.

UMD Macedonian-American Day on the Hill: UMD will hold its 2nd Macedonian-American Day on the Hill in April, which will bring Macedonian-Americans from across the United States to Washington, D.C. to meet with their members of Congress.

UMD Regional Representatives: In 2010, UMD is appointing UMD Regional Representatives to serve as the primary UMD contacts for Macedonian Communities around the world. UMD Regional Representatives will be responsible for organizing local UMD events and for coordinating local efforts with the UMD Headquarters. The UMD Regional Representative system was implemented in response to members’ desire for more local events and greater interaction amongst UMD Members.

UMD European Operations: UMD is increasing its efforts in Europe. Early next year UMD will open permanent offices in Brussels and Paris and appoint representatives for Germany, Sweden and Switzerland.

UMD Voice: UMD publishes a quarterly 32-36 page color magazine, UMD Voice. We hope that as you enjoy it, you will be inspired to take your proper place in promoting the interests of the global Macedonian Diaspora community.

UMD Website: UMD’s website receives over 12,000 hits per day. UMD is working to improve its website and social networking to reach a wider audience internationally. We have plans to add a Macedonian-language section to our website.

UMD Global Conference 2010: UMD will hold its 2nd Global Conference in Toronto from June 3-5, 2010, “Building Partnerships,” bringing over 1,000 Macedonians and friends of Macedonia from over 25 countries to discuss topics of interest to the global Macedonian Diaspora community. Save the Date – we hope you can make it!!

On behalf of UMD, thank you for your belief in, commitment to and support of UMD. We look forward to another successful year with your ongoing generous support.

CLICK HERE to support UMD’s efforts today! Please note – Every dollar donated will be matched by the Turkish Coalition of America.

We, at UMD, wish you and your loved ones a very Happy Holiday Season, and a very Happy New Year!

Sincerely,

Metodija A. Koloski
President
United Macedonian Diaspora

A Mitreski, Spolaj Ti

Sorry Amitreski, a coalition IS an alliance. Look it up.
I could be wrong but only if you mean the following definition:
"A group of usually two to six male lions that drive off and replace the male lions in a pride in order to mate with the females and protect the resulting offspring."
Are we talking about lions here?

What words am I twisting?
Now you advise me the MPO has directed its members to offer another identity instead. When confirmed you will throw them out. Should we applaud the stupid decision in the first instance or should we ignore the initial stupid decision and applaud the second decision? Should we just applaud everything the UMD does?

Meto appears to have had quite a fascination for the MPO as evidenced on certain Yahoo Groups. Is this fascination another mistake or will it be rationalised later on. I recall reading his comment of 2004 how the MPO would "come around" within 5 years. What a shame the alliance occurred after 5 years even though no "coming around" had occurred.

[QUOTE=amitreski;35664]UMD called for coalition on the US Census. They responded, along with other organizations in US to be part of that census. [/QUOTE]
Would you like to remind the forum participants who was to be running this "coalition"?

I genuinely have no idea what you are saying here.

Please let me know where you clarified your statement of "Too much nationalism and the ancient rhetoric from Macedonia have damaged our reputation".

SOM

Again, Pelister has taken many statements out of context, twisted them and spun them around.

In terms of negotiations, I just said what Nimetz said in a public forum. Macedonia is not required to negotiate, but if Macedonia wants to join EU, NATO etc, then those are the conditions. So he is right, if the government of Macedonia does not want to join EU and NATO we can walk out of these negotiations. Unfortunately, (it is not UMD's fault) the entry in these organizations seems to be conditioned on the negotiations process.

[B]If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision.[/B]

Now, where is UMD's fault in all this?

Everybody is frustrated with the position in which Macedonia is put. We should not negotiate for our name and identity. That is something that has been part of the Macedonians for several millenniums.

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2566&page=3[/url]

post 25

Thats an update for whats planned in 2010, im talking about what was achieved in 2009.

[QUOTE]
UMD Website: UMD’s website receives over 12,000 hits per day. UMD is working to improve its website and social networking to reach a wider audience internationally. We have plans to add a Macedonian-language section to our website.[/QUOTE]

Thats not what it says here

[url]http://bizinformation.org/us/www.umdiaspora.org[/url]

[QUOTE]Daily Visitors 120 [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=amitreski;35656]Having a self appointed board is because the organization was at its infancy and you want to get it off the ground. Since the organization has been founded we have seen increase in membership, increase in funding, increase of support. I guess we are doing something right.[/QUOTE]

Do you really not see the point I made or are you avoiding it?

I am not criticizing your decision to have a self-appointed board in the organisation's infancy. I am pointing out the contradiction between not having had any general meeting of members yet, but claiming that your policies are formulated by the will of the members, while dismissing (former) UMD members as something akin to a bunch of stray barking dogs by the roadside.

[QUOTE=amitreski;35659]Igor

Have you directed your criticism to the Macedonian government on this issue? If my memory serves me well, it was the Macedonian government that signed this agreement and it implementing it.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? If you are going to put yourselves out as the leading policy-developing body of the Macedonian diaspora, you should at least have general knowledge of recent Macedonian history, including our community's (including my own) well recorded history of vehement condemnation of the Ohrid Framework Agreement and its implementation. Perhaps we need to make monthly media releases to reiterate our position, in the hope that the apparently uninformed will eventually catch on? In the meantime, please refer to my post on this [URL="http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2450&page=43"]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2450&page=43 [/URL] page of a thread you've participated in.

But your question is out of place on this thread. Where do you see me criticizing the UMD on this thread or suggesting that it signed the Ohrid Framework Agreement? I have merely asked the simple question of whether the above quoted UMD statement amounts to support for the Ohrid Framework Agreement. What is your answer?

So here is an extract of the post you refer to:
[QUOTE=amitreski]
What happened was Macedonia started investing in monuments that were used to harm our public image to international diplomats. In my meetings with International diplomats that was relayed to me. That Macedonia was nationalistic, that Macedonia wanted to attack Greece, etc. To walk out of meetings and be told that Macedonia is a terrible neighbor just for planning to build a monument opposite to what Greece has been doing to Macedonia is appalling. This is all bullshit, but shows how polished the Greek diplomacy is. We just did not seize the moment. I have no problem about these monuments, just questioning the timing and hoped we were more strategic.

In terms of negotiations, I just said what Nimetz said in a public forum. Macedonia is not required to negotiate, but if Macedonia wants to join EU, NATO etc, then those are the conditions. So he is right, if the government of Macedonia does not want to join EU and NATO we can walk out of these negotiations. Unfortunately, (it is not UMD's fault) the entry in these organizations seems to be conditioned on the negotiations process.

If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision.[/QUOTE]

If the UMD represents the Macedonian Diaspora, then it would say to all the international diplomats that the historical figures are indeed important to Macedonians. In fact, it would defend the notion of promoting a strong national identity. Instead, it said it was a bad thing to do. I would call it perfect timing in my opinion.

You say: "If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision."

You also say NATO and EU entry would not be possible if Macedonia withdrew from the negotiation process. Based on constructive logic, can we therefore safely assume the UMD stands for no EU and NATO entry?

[quote=amitreski;35655]On a public forum? Are you kidding?[/quote]

Yes, on a public forum - if UMD is a democratic and transparent organisation, then it will have nothing to hide. In Australia, charitable organisations make their funding and budgets publically available. Is that such a weird concept?

Mitreski,

Were is this "opinion-piece" that Meto wrote for The Age?

Only UMD political DRONES would deny this easily deduced fact. UMD is a RAMKOVIST support group and deserves to be politically excommunicated by ALL patriotic Macedonians, IMO!

indigen
I do not know about UMD ,but if you are saying that [QUOTE]deserves to be politically excommunicated by ALL patriotic Macedonians, IMO![/QUOTE]
then what about present Macedonian political organization in RM such as DPMNE, SDSM ?
What did they deserve?

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;35711]Do you really not see the point I made or are you avoiding it?

I am not criticizing your decision to have a self-appointed board in the organisation's infancy. I am pointing out the contradiction between not having had any general meeting of members yet, but claiming that your policies are formulated by the will of the members, while dismissing (former) UMD members as something akin to a bunch of stray barking dogs by the roadside.[/QUOTE]

IME, Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski appear to be two sides of the same "UMD" coin and thus continually provide conflicting and contradictory statements that lack honesty and substance. Political Flip-flops is what they are.

Compare what A. Mitrevski is saying about the views of the membership with the following statement by M. Koloski:

[QUOTE]Meto Koloski:[COLOR="Red"] "UMD’s membership wants Macedonia to pull out of negotiations, end the Interim Accord, and not discuss Macedonia’s name and identity.[/COLOR] UMD has taken this approach and this is the official policy of the organization."[/QUOTE]

Can anyone take these JOKERS seriously? :-)

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;35422]I refuse to believe that you are so dense as to believe what you just said there. And I hope you take that as a compliment.[/QUOTE]

You are too generous, IME, he/she is a "UMD" political DRONE (or Zombie) and reason, facts, evidence and rational thinking don't factor in their replies.

[QUOTE=amitreski;35253][COLOR="Red"]I hope that Meto's trip in Australia is seen as a way to polarize the Macedonians in Australia[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
WTF, we are ALREADY "polarized" enough and we surely don't need more of that. :-)

[QUOTE][SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]join and donate[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

The UMD mission in life is described in those two words exactly! Milk the Macedonians dry of financial resources so that they are not able to offer any effective resistance to current, and future, DECONSTRUCTION plans for Macedonia and Macedonian identity and cultural heritage.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;35329]I know exactly what he is implying. Here is the relevant excerpt from the original email that Mitreski sent to Pelister:

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=19723&highlight=mitreski#post19723[/url]

How does one interpret that? Why should we accept that it is a must to negotiate on our name if we want to enter certain international organisations? I don't share that opinion. If we are to enter any organisation, our name shouldn't be up for discussion, period. If it does get brought up as a condition of entry, then we should walk away. That is what the UMD should have been telling the government, rather than fearing the 'unknown' of what might happen were we to "[I]say fuck off and stop negotiations[/I]". At the end of his email, Mitreski also makes the following statement:

But Mitreski says earlier in the email that "[I]what would happen next nobody knows[/I]". How are these two points reconciled? Why aren't they talking in public rather than in private? Does the UMD stand to lose something if it echoes the true voice of the Macedonian Diaspora in an overt manner?

Now who is twisting words and making re-interpretations? Mitreski said "[I][B]he is right[/B][/I]" in reference to Macedonia being 'bound' to negotiate its name for the purpose of entering international organisations. He did not, as falsely indicated in the above quoted text, say "he is right" with regard to Macedonia not being required to negotiate its name.[/QUOTE]
SOM, you have nailed it, mate!

Clearly "UMD" drones like "Buktop", "TK", and the rest are simply repeating a well-rehearsed political mantra that "Pelister" is "lying" when in fact it IS now CLEAR that A. Mitreski (as well as Koloski) is the one who is twisting the facts.

Cheers

[QUOTE=indigen;35757]You are too generous, IME, he/she is a "UMD" political DRONE (or Zombie) and reason, facts, evidence and rational thinking don't factor in their replies.[/QUOTE]

IMO you enjoy the fighting, name calling, and division you are creating. You like putting others down and feeling better about yourself, when in fact, you are not helping anyone. IMO you are a spiteful person who lacks the ability to hold civilized discussion.

For you there is Black and White, only a sith deals in absolutes :45:

[quote=Buktop;35764]For you there is Black and White, only a sith deals in absolutes :45:[/quote]


And now we get to the substance of the matter - UMD are moral relativists - they don't believe in absolutes. One day they support a name change the next they don't - it all depends on which way the wind is blowing.

[QUOTE=Homer MakeDonski;35755]indigen
I do not know about UMD ,but if you are saying that
then what about present Macedonian political organization in RM such as DPMNE, SDSM ?
What did they deserve?[/QUOTE]

Draw your own conclusions and respond accordingly, HM!

I am anti-Ramkovist and to me ALL Ramkovisti (and their hangers-on) are TRAITORS to the Macedonian cause!

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35765]And now we get to the substance of the matter - UMD are moral relativists - they don't believe in absolutes. One day they support a name change the next they don't - it all depends on which way the wind is blowing.[/QUOTE]If you don't get the starwars reference I am sorry for you

First of all, I am not speaking on behalf of UMD. Secondly, there are many ways to achieve the same ends, as I have discussed before on this forum SEVERAL times. I understand you don't like UMD, but there are many here who do, and this endless campaign of insults, name calling and allegations is proving to be absolutely worthless.

[QUOTE=indigen;35763]SOM, you have nailed it, mate!

Clearly "UMD" drones like "Buktop", "TK", and the rest are simply repeating a well-rehearsed political mantra that "Pelister" is "lying" when in fact it IS now CLEAR that A. Mitreski (as well as Koloski) is the one who is twisting the facts.

Cheers[/QUOTE] So what does that make you? The purveyor of truth and honesty?

You keep making these allegations that I am somehow a UMD drone who takes direct orders from the evil Meto. These allegations reveal just what a farce you are. I am tired of dealing with conspiracy theorists and outlandish accusations that rival those made during the McCarthy era.

If you have anything meaningful to add feel free to add it, otherwise keep your imagination to yourself.

[quote=Buktop;35768]If you don't get the starwars reference I am sorry for you

First of all, I am not speaking on behalf of UMD. Secondly, there are many ways to achieve the same ends, as I have discussed before on this forum SEVERAL times. I understand you don't like UMD, but there are many here who do, and this endless campaign of insults, name calling and allegations is proving to be absolutely worthless.[/quote]

So you're a moral relativist as well? Don't bother answering, I have already determined that from your posts over the past couple of years.

Who "here" supports UMD other than yourself and a handful of apologists?

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35785]Who "here" supports UMD other than yourself and a handful of apologists?[/QUOTE]


I haven't disowned them yet, nor would I based on your assertions.

[quote=sf.;35788]I haven't disowned them yet, nor would I based on your assertions.[/quote]


These arn't my "assertions" - they're UMD policy.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35795]These arn't my "assertions" - they're UMD policy.[/QUOTE]


Actually, I am not sure what the definitive UMD policy is on the impelementation of the Ohrid Framework Agreement and the Interim Accord. Too many mixed messages, diversions and flip-flops. I would rather see UMD adopt [B]and defend[/B] a clear policy that I strongly disagree with. If we could see a clear and consistent boundary between what we agree on and what we disagree on, we might be able to work together fruitfully on the policies we agree on, while engaging in meaningful discourse about the policies we disagree on. As things stand, I kind of feel like someone's dropped a stack of loose pages on the street and I am trying to catch them all amidst winds blowing in opposite directions, before I can put them together to read them and make something out of them.

I think UMD's policies (although seemingly ambiguous at first) are built around the mindset that Macedonia “must” enter the European Union and NATO and that everything “must” be done to ensure this is accomplished. UMD has consistently called for Macedonia to complete all “reforms” to this end and have clearly placed the Framework Agreement in this category, as per the Trajkovski press release.

UMD has also consistently argued that Greece “must uphold” the conditions agreed to in the Interim Accord, implying that the Interim Accord is legitimate as far as they are concerned.