what Vangelovski wrote about the people in Ohrid - Struga region i guess is corect.

i dont know many people who think they are bulgarians, but i know many who are simply addoring the "divine serbs"

unfortunately, even few members of my family can be counted between them. (actualy they are from my wife´s family, but we are family now... so it is my family...)

60 years of brainwashing have their results :(

We are all doing something to defend our history, defend our rights and challenge the colonial propaganda of our neighbors and the ruthless suppression of our cultural identity. I'm not surprised that Macedonians could lose courage and heart. Because this Greek citizen (Gruevski) doesn't have a problem putting our political existence into real time play, exposing everything countless Macedonians have died for and suffered for over the last century, to a whim, or the stroke of a pen.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;85620][B]Quite simply, a strong Macedonia would ensure this very real scenario by Vangelovski never happens. [/B]Conversely, a weak Macedonia will ensure the wishy washy misery of Macedonian "questionism" will continue indefinitely. My fear is that there won't be enough time to get strong before the name is sold by some pigs.

Let it be said, the bizarre relationship with Serbia via Yugoslavia is something that is foreign to Egejci and the single biggest divide between the 2 largest groups of Macedonians.[/QUOTE]

That is what I want to see more than anything. I want to see a strong State which means strong centralized control, and a government developing Christian Macedonian villages in the region, so that they hold onto their territory.

Over the last decade they have brought about the opposite of that. They have been decentralizing power, devolving control and jurisdiction to create an 'open society', but the phrase 'open society' is just a euphamism of sorts for Federalization along ethnic lines. The government is only creating enormous trouble down the road with the Albanians by giving them so much autonomy. I havn't seen them do anything to remove the cause of the problem - Albanian separatism.

Ljubanec, Dont be so sure about that, look at the date it was just before the break up of SFRJ. If Macedonia was so pro Serbian then nobody would be chanting that sort of stuff, im not suggesting there arnt Srbomani in Stari Kraj because there are, but they are mainly in the Kumanovo region and some are around Skopje and other cities within Macedonia. The Komiti-Chkembari fighting is just about rivalry you get that in every country in the world from Europe,Asia,Africa,South America even Australia, this was totally different it was at a period where tensions were brewing and nobody knew what was going to happen.

Who do you think Johan Tarculovski is and where does he come from? Who do you think fought in the 2001 conflict in Ljubanci and Ljuboten? In Tetovo there was mainly Vojvodi from the Macedonian side.

No progress in name talks despite frequent meetings between Papandreou and Gruevski -
 

Athens, 13 January 2011 (MIA) - No substantial progress has been made in the Greece-Macedonia name talks in spite of frequent meetings held between countries' premiers - George Papandreou and Nikola Gruevski, Greek daily "Kathimerini" reports Thursday.

Furthermore, "Eleftherotypia" newspaper reports that the National Council on Foreign Policy at a session on Tuesday had reached a conclusion that Greece would not allow its northern neighbour to join EU and NATO if a mutually acceptable name solution was not found.

Greek media report that the new round of name talks scheduled by mediator Matthew Nimetz with countries' name representatives on Feb. 9 in New York comes after a long period of complete stagnation of the UN-brokered process. Mediator's upcoming meeting with the negotiators has been postponed twice, since it was originally scheduled on Jan. 10 and then on Jan. 27, it has been reported. ba/fd/13:09


When will the ride stop of lies and BS

What a waste of time and money. And this Nimitz character has the best job in the world - doing absolutely nothing - and getting paid handsomely for it.

oh it gets better SOM :thumbdown:

[i]Government continues harmonising Macedonian laws with EU's[/i]

The Government in 2011 plans to prepare 62 EU-related laws and over 400 by-laws. In 2010, the Government developed 106 laws - which in most part have been enacted by the Parliament - and adopted approximately 250 by-laws. 2010 is one of the most successful years with respect to harmonising Macedonian legislation with EU's and the same dynamics will be maintained, said Vice Premier in charge of European affairs, Vasko Naumovski, on Wednesday.

It appears these people are slowly driving our country into the brick wall of the EU head first!.

Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist
 

[B][SIZE="4"]Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist[/SIZE][/B]

Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.

- Andreas Papandreou with the Interim Agreement and all steps taken during the Karamanlis and even the present Government, in reality are steps to buy time. Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.

"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.

Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras!

Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions..

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated.

Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!!

The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.

- The Balkans have a tendency that one is good, and that's usually us, the others are bad and the rest are boring. In our case, the ugly can be Nimetz, the mediator in this dispute - says Elina Makri, a coordinator of Athens CafeBabel.

The debate was organized by CafeBabel in Athens, with the hope to educate Europe's youth about the dispute with Macedonia. The debate will be translated into numerous languages and sent to all Cafebabel members.

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/[/url]



Well there is so much to dissect and comment on this. Anyone wants to take the floor first?

A clear admission of their intent. All we want is recognition as Macedonians, while they want us to be non-existent as Macedonians. Even an idiot can see (aside from Nimitz being the 'ugly') - who is the good, and who is the bad.

A clear admission indeed SOM.
" Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist" according to Greek experts. We've known this all along. The world has known this all along. But they (world) have been playing stupid. How much longer are they going to play dumb now.


I just want to High-lite some parts of the entire article that i find interesting and gradually give an opinion.

[QUOTE] Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist.......
Our neighbor to the north, we believe, we hope, naturally, that at some poing will cease to exist - says Petros Tatsopoulos, a writer.[/QUOTE] Bloody Natzis.
I might sound hypocritical, but the Balkans would be a better place if these Maggots cease to exist instead.


[QUOTE] Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.......

now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance (Agree to a complicated name) other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it [/QUOTE]If the current Macedonian government are ready to concede, why do Greece think the opposite compared to the majority of the members here? Would it be wise by Greece to shut up and not stir the pot if Macedonia was close to giving up on the name?

[QUOTE] Gligorov agreed to "New Macedonia", claimed Greek professor Tanos Veremis, "we agreed, lets close the problem, but of course one day we receive that fatal phone call. Not to ignite the flames, I won't tell you who was on the phone, well, I will tell you today he is a leader of a major party.. Samaras! [/QUOTE] Gligorov should not be breathing now.

Re Samaras, talk about mixed emotions. I don't know if he should be thanked or spat on. Well in this case, Thank you Mr Samaras.....excuse me while i step outside and vomit now.

[QUOTE] Greek analysts, writers and professors involved in the debate did not deviate at all from the well known stance by official Athens, however, the audience at the debate did not share the same opinions.....

"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.....

- I only want to say we are wrong...

These were some of the things overheard among audience members as the debate got heated. [/QUOTE] Are the public starting to realize and accept the inevitable?




And my favorite part,
[QUOTE] - All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!! [/QUOTE]Well said by this brave Macedonian. :clap:
I would have loved to hear there response.

[QUOTE=Bill77;86115][B][SIZE="4"]Greeks Debate about Macedonia dispute, hope the country Ceases to Exist[/SIZE][/B]

[QUOTE]Greece and Macedonia are both buying time and avoid any sort of solution. Athens hopes Macedonia would cease to exist, while Skopje is expecting a recognition only under its constitutional name - say Greek experts.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that won't happen...we have and will always exist..
but I could assure you that your nation will fall apart very shortly..especially when Europe has a gut full of you racists

[QUOTE]"When Macedonia in the 90's agreed to a complicated name, the Greek side was against it, now when Athens is with a changed and softer stance, the other side led by nationalist Grevski doesn't accept it", this was the consensus of the sides involved in the Athens debate.[/QUOTE]

Softer approach..? ahhh Maybe you used up or your lies and Macedonians have exposed the truth...
Greece have hit the self-destruct button and all their dirty little secrets are out.


[QUOTE]"Today 130 or 140 countries and counting have recognized our neighbor as Macedonia. It's only a matter of time when we say "Well, we are forced to accept Macedonia" said one audience member.

- I only want to say we are wrong...
- No, I won't explain anything to you, you should already know this...
- We'll never recognize them...
- Lower your voice lady, you don't scare me... [/QUOTE]

Your dam right you will lose and will be forced to except us...


[QUOTE]Surprisingly, the mic ended up in the hands of an ethnic Macedonian from Lerin who was allowed to speak.

- All of my childhood, we were forbidden to say that we're Macedonians. I had a very tough time growing up because I didn't speak Greek, only Macedonian. I knew my language as Macedonian, but was told that was wrong, never got an explanation what was wrong about it? The word Macedonian was strictly forbidden in Greece, and just few years ago, all of Greece adopted the word as its own?!!![/QUOTE]

Do you think this meeting was recorded..? would love to see it...

[QUOTE]The Macedonian question - the good the bad and the ugly, was part of the debate where the Athens debate had to decide which is which.
[/QUOTE]
I could only see Athens being the BAD, and the Ugly...

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17367/46/[/url]



[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I would love to see on the news the riots in Greece the inevitable day the un recognises Macedonia.

Its slowly dawning on them that it started with only a few countries recognising Macedonia while the Greek shouted to Macedonia nobody in the world believes your stinking lies…change your name and identity or die.

With Zimbabwe we are upto 130 countries out of the 193 recognised in the un and hence able to vote a 67.36 percent. The wheel is 2 third turned. Quite a change. As the number grows it is a clear message to Greece we…the world…don’t believe you’re your stinking lies.

The day is inevitable that’s why I keep saying the next 2 years are going to be very interesting.

If the Greeks and west are smart they will work on a face saving strategy and the political issues of Egej Macedonia separating from Greece but keeping their business interests.

The person from Lerin told the truth. Greeks have changed their mantra over the last 20 years and now they reject the previous truths. Fools.

I did mention in a couple of threads that i happen to glance in the greek embassy articles & read the translated greek.I found they were saying that they were virtually ready to throw the proverbial towel in if more & more countries recognise macedonia under its constitutional name.They admitted they were winning the battle but losing the war.Also they were saying what a pushover were some of the macedonian politicians they can just be manupulated so easily.The message is clear unless they want to be traitors to the macedonian cause PULL OUT now.

Macedonia ready to iron differences with Greece in European manner, says president
 

[url]http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n239548[/url]

[QUOTE]Skopje. Macedonia is ready in European manner to settle the name dispute, imposed by Greece, which prevents the country to realize its strategic goals - the EU and NATO membership, President Gjorge Ivanov said late Friday at his reception for the diplomatic corps, Macedonian MIA new agency reports.
"It is a pity for many generations of Macedonia's citizens to suffer hardship on their road to progress and welfare over an irrational reason. Macedonia is ready to iron the differences with neighbouring Greece in a European manner. I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - [B]a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers[/B]," Ivanov said.
The new year, he said, will observe the 20th anniversary of Macedonia's independence and 10th anniversary of the Ohrid Framework Agreement. It will be also marked by resuming of crucial reforms on the road to desired EU, NATO membership, the President added.
The diplomatic corps' doyen, Romania's Ambassador Adrian Constantinescu believes that 2011 is going to be an excellent year for Macedonia and its citizens.[/QUOTE]

And why shouldn't Macedonia be the winner Ivanov?
Sounds like a sellout is inevitable by DPMNE and Co.

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.

[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]In the tradition of OM - a story, but this one actually has a point:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]There was a hunter who had taken aim at a very large and angry bear. The hunter was ready to pull the trigger of his rifle when he heard the bear speak in a soothing voice, "Isn't it better to talk than to shoot? Why don't we negotiate this matter? What do you want?"[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]The hunter lowered his rifle and answered, "I would like a fur coat."[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]The bear said, "This is good. I think there is something we can do about that. All I want is a full stomach. Maybe we can compromise."[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#390002][FONT=Verdana]So they sat down to talk. A little while later, the bear walked away alone. The negotiations had been successful. The bear had his full stomach, and the hunter had his fur coat![/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;86315]And why shouldn't [B]Macedonia be the winner[/B] Ivanov?
Sounds like a [B]sellout[/B] is inevitable by [B]DPMNE and Co.[/B]

Anyone want to suggest a way Macedonia won't lose in this process? Disgusting.[/QUOTE]

One could be cynical and say a European manner is to offer you a lolly with the promise of more to let them stick their hands in your jocks only to be grabbed by the nuts and squeezed until you give up or faint whichever comes first while they pat you on the head or back with their other hand saying there there you’ll get used to it soon.

Greece is on a downhill run in the name dispute and could loose in the not to distant future…and with them so too the eu re Suez Canal buffer zone theory…yet what would Macedonia gain…remembering gone are the good old days of genocide at least in Europe…more Greeks and others than Macedonians in Egej and RoM put together hardly a desirable mix in a democracy where everyone gets a vote…the Macedonians will become a minority in their own country and loose whatever control they had.

I have a bad feeling about Egej…just keep in mind the ultimate goal of the eu…ie Roman Empire…of open boarders with one big crossover economy and minority rights…Macedonia Salutaris in the north and Macedonia Prima in the south…so what if you are technically part of Greece…ie our buffer zone…you get to be called Macedonians learn and speak your language and some properties are returned or restitution made while in RoM the recognition of Macedonians means a quick accent into the eu and nato alleviating domestic pressures and possible conflict.

A European manner solution…a win win…or is that loose loose…that’s right no winners or losers.

I’ve been hinting at this for ages.

By the way note that in the above Ivanov and Gruevski get to claim they never lied…the did everything to preserve the Macedonian name identity and language for all Macedonians and the integrity of RoM while getting in the eu and nato and having brought prosperity to the country while not forgetting those Macedonians outside of RoM in human rights for them…does this all sound like the words they have been dropping hints at all along.


PS Bravo Vangelovski I knew you would come around to the OziMak way sooner or later. Very good analogy.

Why not come out & admit macedonia will have to compromise first on its name .Lose,then it will be a winner by being allowed to enter Nato & EU.I'ts a forgone conclussion.VmRO DPMe is planning a sellout for sure.You can see ivanov is simply spinning rhetoric.

in the european manner I believe that dialogue, more trust and better understanding will lead us to mutually acceptable solution - a compromise that declares neither winners nor losers," Ivanov said.Please let me know what that compromise is selling ones identity for the sake of entering Eu,&nato,What a joke we have all been proven wrong we were hoping that the politicians would not negotiate & stand their ground what a joke.They won't even stand to reason.While other nations are determined to stay out of these organizations macedonia is going to be the new lapdog who obeys it's master.Nothing but a complete joke,

Any deviation from our position that demands self-respect is a defeat. Ivanov is fast becoming another tool for foreign interests in Macedonia.

Ivanov is showing his true form. The loser will be the one that has negotiated, what an absolute tool, compromising our identity. They are showing their tactics, they all have hidden personal agendas and its apparent they stand to profit nicely. Why else would they continue to play a dangerous game in selling our identity

I think its prudent to keep our eyes on the ball and to read between the lines as much as possible but at the same time be weary of reading too much into statements that could be minefields of deliberate ambiguity...

What is Selling Out.

Has anyone ever heard Ivanov or Gruevski say anything other than that any solution must protect the integrity of the Macedonia name identity and language. Is this an act of selling out or is this the prime fundamental issue. If the identity is lost you cannot have anything else…if there are no Macedonians then everything Macedonian is either not yours or cease to exist.

Is it Not aiming at total reunification of Macedonia. Is this even possible.

I hear you say But its Macedonia…we are Macedonians…it belongs to us…they took it by force…so give it back. If it were two kids and a teacher in a school. Could such a precedent be allowed to happen. Wouldn’t the Basque in France and Spain put up their hand or the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq or the Turkish clans in China to name a few. Who is going to force these countries to give up land…then why would they force Greece to. But what about Hong Kong.

The issue of Hong Kong is not the same. Firstly the British and the Chinese had a binding agreement which no one in the west was prepared to go to war with China over breaking an agreement. No agreement or treaty exists regarding the occupied parts of Macedonia so how do we force Greece to give the land back…rely on their sense of decency or beg and say please a million times with a cherry on top or do we go to war or get someone else to go to war for us or do we pressure the un to set economic sanctions on Greece until they do. Is any of this realistic. Then what do you think Ivanov and Gruevski should do not to be a sell out.

Stop negotiating.

There are 3 kinds of money…4 if you count stealing.

You can earn your money. A very honourable thing to do but what if you need a lot of money right away like if you were buying a house. You could save from your earnings and wait…and wait…or you could borrow it.

Borrowed money is great in that it lets you do more right now than what you could do from your earnings but there are limits to how much you can borrow and how much others will let you borrow…not everyone is as privileged as Greece some of us actually have to pay back our borrowings.

Somebody could give you money. Not everybody is your daddy. There are charitable people but usually they expect something in kind back so where are the ground rules becomes important but working out the ground rules needs a bit of savoir-faire or it could be a deal breaker. This opens the door for…lets say some things to happen…without Both parties feeling they are getting exactly the deal they were expecting. Time goes by and circumstances change…upper hands become not so upper and underhands start working and the beggar is begged.

Madness in the method and method in the madness…a very [I]European manner[/I] maybe.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;86353]I think its prudent to keep our eyes on the ball and to read between the lines as much as possible but at the same time be weary of reading too much into statements that could be minefields of deliberate ambiguity...[/QUOTE]

There IS NO AMBIGUITY in the FACT that "our" ruling political elites in Mk are willing to "compromise" (sell out) DETRIMENTALLY to Macedonian national interests on the name issue, i.e. accept a NEW (amended) name for the state for international use. And this will not be the first nor the last stab in the back of Macedonian national interests, at least until there is nothing worthwhile left to sell out and compromise on.

[QUOTE=OziMak;86366]What is Selling Out.[/QUOTE]

Can you be short and to the point in what you are trying to say/convey in your posts?

Does anyone have any emails addresses of ivanov & gruevski so that we can all tell them off ??

[QUOTE=indigen;86371]Can you be short and to the point in what you are trying to say/convey in your posts?[/QUOTE]

Whether we like it or not I think the government have hitched their bets on this course of action

1. Preserve the Macedonian name identity and language above all.

2. Realising unity is not possible for now they have sacrificed pushing for unity to achieve point 1 above leaving the question of unity to a later time and from a different position but in the mean time holding out for minority right to make the wait bearable.

3. Balance the time…ie scheduling of reforms…to keep the eu happy with progress yet not faster than getting courtiers to recognise Macedonia and giving Macedonian a greater bargaining power…God know what deals they have done to get recognition…one we know of is the Chinese computer factory in RoM.

[QUOTE=indigen;86370]There IS NO AMBIGUITY in the FACT that "our" ruling political elites in Mk are willing to "compromise" (sell out) DETRIMENTALLY to Macedonian national interests on the name issue, i.e. accept a NEW (amended) name for the state for international use. And this will not be the first nor the last stab in the back of Macedonian national interests, at least until there is nothing worthwhile left to sell out and compromise on.[/QUOTE]

What's the answer Indigen...?

[QUOTE=Phoenix;86379]What's the answer Indigen...?[/QUOTE]

This topic is NOT about answers but about painting a CLEAR PICTURE of the STATE of the nation as it really is and not how some of us wish to IMAGINE it!

You might want to consider the following points that SOM presented in another topic:

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;86334]Who are we directing the message to? The world? Or our own politicians who are selling Macedonia out? What Macedonian Diaspora groups need to do is put pressure on the Macedonian government to conform with the goals of the Macedonian Cause, by cooperating with them while they continue to negotiate OUR IDENTITY we are making it easier for them to carry out their dirty work.

[B]I am not advocating the cessation of trade and interaction between Macedonians in the Diaspora and those in Macedonia, [COLOR="Navy"]but instead a form or forms of consistent and perpetual protest against the government's policies. [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR="Red"]Reject them and their advances, do not welcome them when they visit us in Diaspora countries, in fact, that is when we should protest.[/COLOR][/B] The Macedonian government can end this fiasco with the name today, right now, all they have to say is NO to the violation of our heritage, identity and integrity.

[B][COLOR="Purple"]How many Macedonians are prepared to do that? And how many will still greet Gruevski or Ivanov like royalty when they visit the country in which they live? Our future can be ours to determine, but we need to take it into our hands.[/COLOR][/B] I eagerly await the next visit of any high-profile Macedonian politician to Australia - gone are the days of good reception,[B][COLOR="Red"] these people need to be held accountable for their actions, and if the Macedonians in Macedonia won't or can't do it, then the rest of the Macedonians across the world should. Afterall, the stupid decisions that some idiot politicians in Macedonia make, affect us all.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

Cheers

[QUOTE=OziMak;86378]Whether we like it or not I think the government have hitched their bets on this course of action

1. Preserve the Macedonian name identity and language above all.[/QUOTE]
This is NOT clear (nor does it seem grammatically correct) what you are trying to convey! And if it is what I think you are trying to say, then you are completely wrong when it comes to the name of the state for international use. KOGA i VRAPCITE znaat deka imeto na drzhavata e PRODADENO za megjunarodna upotreba (vo najmala raka), VIE BI TREBALO DA SE RAZBUDITE OD ZIMSKIOT SON SHTO VE ZAFATIL VAS!!!!

[QUOTE]2. Realising unity is not possible for now they have sacrificed pushing for unity to achieve point 1 above leaving the question of unity to a later time and from a different position but in the mean time holding out for minority right to make the wait bearable.[/QUOTE]
What is this mumbo jumbo about? :))

[QUOTE]3. Balance the time…ie scheduling of reforms…to keep the eu happy with progress yet not faster than getting courtiers to recognise Macedonia and giving Macedonian a greater bargaining power…God know what deals they have done to get recognition…one we know of is the Chinese computer factory in RoM.[/QUOTE]
Being short and to the point is a BIG challenge for you, IMHO! :-)

[QUOTE=indigen;86387][I][B]This is NOT clear (nor does it seem grammatically correct) what you are trying to convey![/B] And if it is what I think you are trying to say, then you are completely wrong when it comes to the name of the state for international use. [B]KOGA i VRAPCITE znaat deka imeto na drzhavata e PRODADENO za megjunarodna upotreba[/B] (vo najmala raka), VIE BI TREBALO DA SE RAZBUDITE OD ZIMSKIOT SON SHTO VE ZAFATIL VAS!!!![/I]

I don’t teach English. Go find yourself an English teacher.

No wonder you have a problem with English if you speak to the birds for information. Maybe they told you the name was sold so that they could get some birdseeds from you but [B]last time I looked the name being used was still the Republic of Macedonia the ethnic identity was still Macedonian and the language was still Macedonia.[/B] The birds jibbed you…are you sure they weren’t black birds on a red background…or was it a case of if you pay with birdseeds you get birdbrains.


[I]What is this mumbo jumbo about? :))[/I]

You really have a problem with English don’t you. Go find someone to translate for you. If they can understand it but cant explain it tell them to read the long version for an explanation.

[I]Being short and to the point is a BIG challenge for you, IMHO! :-)[/I]

Some questions need more than a one word answer. If this is too long for you the sorry I don’t speak in grunts and one syllable words:D.

[/QUOTE]

It will be an interesting year in 2011.

Greeks are probably going to be your new best friend in a few years from now. What you guys dont get is that if we hated your country so much, why are we one of the top investors in Macedonia ? ROM is also considered a buffer zone from the Albanians. It is not in Greece's interest for you to be wiped off the map. I think this article is misleading.

Trident, Greece is right next to Albania. Check out your Atlas.

Greece finds it useful to invest in Macedonia. It can bribe politicians and get away with paying less to employees. It can avoid stringent EU legislation that applies in its own country. Why are you pretending to be naive Trident?

The key phrase here is "in a European manner". In my view what he is actually pointing out is that the "european manner" is nothing but two faced, backstabbing, deceit and deception. They don't know and don't respect democratic principles or basic human rights so there can be no ironing out of differences under these precepts. In diplomatic terms he is calling a spade a spade. He is telling the EU can go to the devil! Love It!

[QUOTE=Trident;86399]Greeks are probably going to be your new best friend in a few years from now. [/QUOTE] Greek soldiers sing they will wear our skins as clothing.

Greek diaspora move heaven and earth for governments to deny our identity.

Now we have Greek experts publicly speaking, hoping our country Ceases to Exist.

Imagine if we were your enemy, god forbid :6:

[QUOTE] What you guys dont get is that if we hated your country so much, why are we one of the top investors in Macedonia ? [/QUOTE] Oh please, spare us your insinuations that Greeks are our saviors. Its their pockets they have interest in not that they want to do Macedonians favors. And the fact they would enjoy watching Macedonians being slaves.

In diplomatic terms, he is saying Macedonia will not be a winner in this process. If I was going to recruit a leader for my army and he said something like this, I would have him shot.

[QUOTE=Trident;86399]Greeks are probably going to be your new best friend in a few years from now.[/QUOTE]
What planet are you from, buddy?
[QUOTE]What you guys dont get is that if we hated your country so much, why are we one of the top investors in Macedonia ?[/QUOTE]
That argument is so old......Greeks don't invest in Macedonia because they care for the well-being of Macedonians, they invest because the labour is cheaper, they pay the workers peanuts, and they make all the money.
[QUOTE]ROM is also considered a buffer zone from the Albanians.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean 'buffer zone'? Greece shares borders with Albania, probably has about a million Albanians from Albania within its borders at the moment, and has millions of local Arvanites (Albanians). One would be puzzled as to where to put this so-called 'buffer zone' between Greeks and Albanians.

Greece sure cares for Macedonia...I mean, they invest in their country!

What a joke? You kidding me? All this is for Greek economic advantage and for its political aspirations.

Greece's orthodox brothers to the north have experienced the "love" and "agape," from their brothers in the south for hundreds of years. And their desire that Macedonia "would just go away," and "cease to exist," is another indication of this "love."

But, alas, 'twould seem that this "agape" is a farce.

There can never be peace betwixt the two sides until Greece recognizes Macedonian name, territory, and history; until then, there will never be peace in the Balkans.

[QUOTE=Trident;86399]Greeks are probably going to be your new best friend in a few years from now. What you guys dont get is that if we hated your country so much, why are we one of the top investors in Macedonia ? ROM is also considered a buffer zone from the Albanians. It is not in Greece's interest for you to be wiped off the map. I think this article is misleading.[/QUOTE]

Greece will be Macedonia's new best friend. [B][SIZE="2"]When Greece gives up Aegean Macedonia[/SIZE][/B]. We shall be very good friends then . W[B][SIZE="2"]hen the same atrocities are committed on your heathen people that you inflicted on my blood and kin,[/SIZE][/B] we shall be very good friends. Best friends.
When [B][SIZE="2"]Greeks change their names[/SIZE][/B] to MACEDONIAN. FORCED. We shall be best friends. When[B][SIZE="2"] Greeks are denied their basic human rights[/SIZE][/B]. Best mates.

I CANT FUCKING WAIT FOR US TO BE BEST FRIENDS. OH PLEASE, WHEN CAN WE PLAY???

Stupid imbecile. Incidentally, Greece is allowed to invest in Macedonia so you idiots dont starve to death

A lot of naive comments. You ppl are proving my point. When was the last time you have even been in the balkans ?

First off, for countries to establish friendship they usually start with opening diplomatic relations. Then economic relations follow, its been that way since time memorial. Enemies do not trade.

Case in point Greece and Turkey and most recently Greece and Israel. Its not just about making money. Its also to build confidence on the ground. If your a shopkeeper thats trying to make a buck, your not going to care who comes to your business. You will even end up befriending your frequent customers. Thats just how it is.