[QUOTE=Bill77;172583]Blood is thicker than water i suppose



[url]http://i.cubeupload.com/mvhiVB.jpg[/url]

The cordial meeting between the two is expected but sickening nonetheless[/QUOTE]

They share the same desire to destroy Macedonia...

Just to clarify for any casual visitors to this forum, the "blood is thicker than water" comment in reference to the picture of Ali Ahmeti and Nikos Kotzias embracing is that both are ethnic Albanians.

[QUOTE=Karposh;172586]Just to clarify for any casual visitors to this forum, the "blood is thicker than water" comment in reference to the picture of Ali Ahmeti and Nikos Kotzias embracing is that both are ethnic Albanians.[/QUOTE]

Do you know something we dont?
[IMG]http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/default/files/styles/708x320/public/tsamhdes-presveianea.jpg?itok=sWWsdbbD[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172587]Do you know something we dont?
[IMG]http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/default/files/styles/708x320/public/tsamhdes-presveianea.jpg?itok=sWWsdbbD[/IMG][/QUOTE]

You sound surprised Amphipolis. Does it surprise you to learn that your former Deputy Prime Minister of Greece, Theodoros Pangalos is an Albanian too? All your picture says is that Kotzias might be a Hellenised Albanian, that's all. It doesn't prove that he is not an Albanian. We have plenty of Hellenised Macedonians in Greece holding the torch to Hellenism...Nevertheless, as you suspected, I don't have any proof that he is an Albanian. It's just a rumour that I've heard which I'm more than happy to be spreading. Our trusted source Wikipedia does speculate a little in the Talk page about his possible Albanian or Turkish roots. That's usually good enough for you Greeks and Bulgarians when it comes to throwing mud on our identity so, I figured it would be good enough for me too to offer this as "evidence" of Kotzias' non Greekness and possible Albanian or Turkish roots.

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172587]Do you know something we dont?
[IMG]http://www.iefimerida.gr/sites/default/files/styles/708x320/public/tsamhdes-presveianea.jpg?itok=sWWsdbbD[/IMG][/QUOTE] There are Statues in Macedonia honoring World War II Nazi collaborators built by Macedonia’s ethnic Albanian. Kotzias would be proud.

Kotzias brought his own rubber stamp during this week's meetings in Skopje

[IMG]https://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/media_programm-630x400.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Niko777;172593]Kotzias brought his own rubber stamp during this week's meetings in Skopje

[IMG]https://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/media_programm-630x400.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

LoL only in Macedonia

If I was Kotzias I would have stamped Zaevs forehead right after landing. I'm sure Zoran would just smile and thank him.

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172587]Do you know something we dont?

[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://jeffrossblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/elephantintheroom-leo_cullum.png[/IMG]

[B]Abedin Rakipi[/B] claims that Kotzias is an Arvanite (Albanian). He also states that Dora Bakoyannis is an Arvanite.

Google translation/summary of the second paragraph:

[COLOR="Navy"]In a university conference among the famous Arvanite surnames Maria Efthimiou also mentions the surname Kotzias. Kotzias or more precisely [B]Kotzia[/B] ([B]Kocia[/B]) is an Arvanite surname. [/COLOR]

URLs:
[url]http://www.kohajone.com/2016/11/02/zoti-kotzias-ju-jeni-shqiptar-por-nuk-e-dini/[/url]
[url]http://abedinrakipi.blogspot.ca/2016/11/zoti-kotzias-ju-jeni-shqiptar-por-nuk-e.html?m=1[/url]

[QUOTE=Carlin15;172598][B]Abedin Rakipi[/B] claims that Kotzias is an Arvanite (Albanian). He also states that Dora Bakoyannis is an Arvanite.

Google translation/summary of the second paragraph:

[COLOR="Navy"]In a university conference among the famous Arvanite surnames Maria Efthimiou also mentions the surname Kotzias. Kotzias or more precisely [B]Kotzia[/B] ([B]Kocia[/B]) is an Arvanite surname. [/COLOR]

URLs:
[url]http://www.kohajone.com/2016/11/02/zoti-kotzias-ju-jeni-shqiptar-por-nuk-e-dini/[/url]
[url]http://abedinrakipi.blogspot.ca/2016/11/zoti-kotzias-ju-jeni-shqiptar-por-nuk-e.html?m=1[/url][/QUOTE]

Regarding Dora Bakoyiani (daughter of Constantine Mitsotakis) that refers to her mother Marika (Yanoukos family from Athens) as Mitsotakis is a Cretan (related to Venizelos family). This partial Arvanite ancestry also applies to Dora's brother Kyriakos, who's running to be our next Prime Minister.

[IMG]http://www.mixanitouxronou.gr/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/mhtsotakhs-marika-zevgari.jpg[/IMG]

Regarding Kotzias I can not confirm. It's not an issue of etymology (which is either Turkish or Greek or unclear, not Albanian), but it's possible that this surname is common between Arvanites (I only found the geographical distribution). Arvanites don't necessarily have surnames with Albanian etymology.

[URL="http://apps.vrisko.gr/apo-pou-krataei-i-skoufia-sou/%ce%ba%ce%bf%cf%84%ce%b6%ce%b9%ce%ac%cf%82"]http://apps.vrisko.gr/apo-pou-krataei-i-skoufia-sou/%ce%ba%ce%bf%cf%84%ce%b6%ce%b9%ce%ac%cf%82[/URL]

Kotzias claims he is not related to the former Mayor of Athens Constantine Kotzias, and that he is not his... son or grandson, as the Cham Albanians accused him of.


===

Methana, Hydra, Aegina were inhabited by Albanians.

I couldn’t find anything about his family or origins but Nikos Kotzias is infamous in Greece for suing a political magazine that spoke about his early communist life in Eastern Germany and called him a "Gauleiter". This term was considered wrong and defamatory, Kotzias was awarded a huge compensation and the journal had to eventually close because of debt.

So this Abedin Rakipi should be careful.

Wow. A Greek wins a lawsuit when someone calls him something he's not.

Oh, the irony for Macedonians who are called Bulgars, Slavs, FYROMIANS and Tatars by the Greeks.

Goofball Premier of Victoria Daniel Andrews says "Macedonia is Greek".

[URL="http://falanga.com.au/en/video-the-premier-of-victoria-offended-the-macedonians-by-claiming-that-macedonia-is-greek"]http://falanga.com.au/en/video-the-premier-of-victoria-offended-the-macedonians-by-claiming-that-macedonia-is-greek[/URL]

Moron should have never returned from bankrupt land

[QUOTE=maco2envy;172649]Goofball Premier of Victoria Daniel Andrews says "Macedonia is Greek".

[URL="http://falanga.com.au/en/video-the-premier-of-victoria-offended-the-macedonians-by-claiming-that-macedonia-is-greek"]http://falanga.com.au/en/video-the-premier-of-victoria-offended-the-macedonians-by-claiming-that-macedonia-is-greek[/URL]

Moron should have never returned from bankrupt land[/QUOTE]

Some politicians are about as honest as the Australian Cricket team at the moment. Not that Politicians have any credibility but they should refrain from making inflammatory comments at the expense of other.

[U][SIZE="5"][B][COLOR="Red"]Excerpt from Kotzias' Speech in Greek Parliament (March 28, 2018): [/COLOR][/B][/U]

[B][COLOR="red"]"It is not right to say we are giving up the name Macedonia now. We are not going to a baptism, the child already exists and is named "Macedonia". They have called themselves a "Macedonian nation" [U]for at least a century[/U]. And as "Macedonia" they assembled into a political entity 70 years ago."[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

Full Speech in Greek: [url]http://www.avgi.gr/documents/10179/0/%CE%9F%CE%9C%CE%99%CE%9B%CE%99%CE%91+%CE%9A%CE%9F%CE%A4%CE%96%CE%99%CE%912018/7cc3ffb8-d58a-47b4-92f6-8a41ef99d280[/url]

Article in Greek: [url]http://www.avgi.gr/article/10845/8803743/-symphonia-gia-to-makedoniko-pou-na-mporei-na-epibiosei-ton-dyskolion-[/url]
Article in Macedonian: [url]http://telma.com.mk/kozijas-deteto-postoi-i-se-vika-makedonija/[/url]

[QUOTE]Δεν είναι σωστό ότι το όνομα «Μακεδονία» πάμε να το δώσουμε τώρα. Είπα κάπου, σε μια ραδιοφωνική από τις σπάνιες, όπως ξέρετε, συνεντεύξεις μου, ότι δεν πάμε για βαφτίσια. Το παιδί υπάρχει και λέγεται «Μακεδονία». Αυτοί ονομάζουν τον εαυτό τους ως «Μακεδονικό έθνος» έναν αιώνα τουλάχιστον. Και υπάρχουν ως «Μακεδονία», συγκροτημένοι σε πολιτική οντότητα με διάφορες μορφές, πριν από 70 χρόνια.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172054]You didn't present any statement or argument.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://macedonia365.com/8300/[/url]

I personally don't agree with the Kotsias narrative on history. All those people lying in mass graves in Northern Greece also didn't agree. Neka mu e lesna zemjata

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NnbJaii.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cGorrWt.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Niko777;172733][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NnbJaii.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cGorrWt.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

We tricked Greece and the world! The acronym of Меѓународен Аеродром Скопје ends up being MAC in Cyrillic, which if read in English, are the first three letters of Macedonia.

Suck on that, Greece!

God, we're clever lol

MAC!!

We are already starting to call ourselves Skopje via the International Airport. How is that a win????????

You think this will appease the greeks? Bs, they will up their anti with continued retarded behaviour.

They will continue to play the irredentist card until we do not refer to ourselves as Macedonians in any shape or form.

and we are letting them....

Mmm.. In case anyone missed this..
This is what tax payers money is being spent on in RoM..

This was printed by the " Agency for youth and sport "
A state funded institution spreading pathetic material..

If this isn't state sponsored discrimination then what is?
This seems like another way to create "loyalty" amongst the Albanians in Macedonia!!

[IMG]http://shenja.tv/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Zbirka-poezija-4-696x512.jpg[/IMG]

Is it teaching Albanians how to speak Macedonian?
It should be.

Anything else Albo?

Cheer up Albo. You can still learn Albanian in Sunday school like everybody else.

[QUOTE=Albo;172753]Mmm.. In case anyone missed this..
This is what tax payers money is being spent on in RoM..

This was printed by the " Agency for youth and sport "
A state funded institution spreading pathetic material..

If this isn't state sponsored discrimination then what is?
This seems like another way to create "loyalty" amongst the Albanians in Macedonia!!

[IMG]http://shenja.tv/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Zbirka-poezija-4-696x512.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Your comment is laughable and pathetic.
In your view I suppose here in Australia as it is a requirement for immigrants to take a/ learn English in order to gain citizenship it is “state sponsored discrimination”.
My first cousin and her husband migrated to Austria two years ago from Macedonia. Guess what? My cousins husband is taking German speaking classes as is my cousin so they can better integrate in Austria.
No one is denying Albanians to speak/ learn their language in Macedonia but in order to integrate it is common sense that they learn Macedonian, as it should be, yet you cry state sponsored discrimination, give Albanians an inch they take a mile and still cry victim

[QUOTE=Spirit;172765]Your comment is laughable and pathetic.
In your view I suppose here in Australia as it is a requirement for immigrants to take a/ learn English in order to gain citizenship it is “state sponsored discrimination”.
My first cousin and her husband migrated to Austria two years ago from Macedonia. Guess what? My cousins husband is taking German speaking classes as is my cousin so they can better integrate in Austria.
No one is denying Albanians to speak/ learn their language in Macedonia but in order to integrate it is common sense that they learn Macedonian, as it should be, yet you cry state sponsored discrimination, give Albanians an inch they take a mile and still cry victim[/QUOTE]

...you're wasting your time pitching this at Albo...he doesn't understand English.

The issues isn't about Albanians learning Macedonian.. it never has been an issue..

The issue is the poem on the second page is totally racist and derogatory... and it's tax payer funded!

[url]https://euobserver.com/opinion/141530[/url]

[B]Opportunity not to be missed in Greece-Macedonia row[/B]

The naming dispute between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia that has raged for almost three decades must be resolved.

There are several reasons why the current opportunity, presented by the renewed UN-mediated negotiations between the two countries and encouraged by the US and the EU, should not be missed.

Firstly, Greece's contentions in the dispute are or have become illegitimate.

Greece continues to argue, on the official level, that its major objection is Macedonia's "irredentism".

While it is true that several statements by Macedonian officials, as well as certain provisions in the Macedonian constitution, did justify such a concern in the past, this is no longer the case.

The current government in Macedonia has gone to great lengths to dismantle the so-called 'Antiquisation' programme that was pursued by its predecessor, and has openly repudiated any claim on the history that Greece considers its own heritage.

As for the constitution, it is simply not true that it continues to include irredentist references. On the contrary, after its amendments, it includes an explicit rejection of any claim to foreign territory.

Greece has in substance accepted that its neighbour's "composite name" will include the term "Macedonia".

Therefore, continued insistence on a non-existent "irredentism" serves no purpose except pandering to a nationalistic segment of Greek public opinion.

The same is true about denying the existence of a Macedonian nation. The Macedonian national movement has been documented since the last years of the 19th century, and people that self-identify as ethnic Macedonians have been around for at least as long.

Secondly, Greek policy towards its northern neighbour through the years - including a trade embargo in the 1990s - has been devastating to Macedonia's economy, and continually hinders its chances for stability and prosperity.

Greece has in reality no reason to consider the Republic of Macedonia as a threat.

A country that has only 20 percent of the population of Greece and virtually no military forces cannot reasonably be considered a security concern.

[U]Immoral[/U]

Continuing to obstruct Macedonia's prospects of development and international relations is simply a re-channeling of other threats and humiliations (for example, dissatisfaction with EU-imposed austerity or concern over the deteriorating relationship with Turkey) into a conflict with a weaker adversary that Greece feels it has the power to bully with impunity.

This is immoral.

Thirdly, the current government of the Republic of Macedonia has come to power through a process of public involvement and through the disillusionment of a large part of the voters with the extreme nationalist policies of the past.

A failure in the negotiations now will be a severe blow to the momentum that more moderate and more democratic policies currently enjoy.

And it is not just international relations that will suffer as a result. The internal progressive policies with regard to civil and minority rights, that this government was elected to promote, will also be endangered. Greece has no reason, as a democratic country, to wish for that to happen.

It is true that the main thrust behind the restart of the negotiations now has not been the desire of either Greece or Macedonia to correct past mistakes, but rather the on-going project of NATO consolidation in the Western Balkans.

It started with the admission of Slovenia into the alliance, and continued with Albania and Croatia, and finally with Montenegro. Macedonia has long endeavoured to be admitted to NATO, and it seems that this is now the next step, provided that Greece lifts its objections, which it will only do if the naming dispute is resolved.

It is no secret that this euro-Atlantic policy is pursued with some urgency in the face of deteriorating relations between the West and Russia, as well as increasing Chinese economic expansion.

This is also reflected in the European Commission's determination to integrate the Western Balkans into the Union by 2025. Greece has aligned itself with these policies.

Some argue that small countries have no reason to get involved in the grand designs of major powers, and that an entanglement with NATO's anti-Russian preparations brings the threat of war closer, rather than ensure security.

While this can be a legitimate discussion - particularly considering the track record of past Nato intervention - it should be disconnected from the issue of the naming dispute with Macedonia.

Nato has its reasons for encouraging a resolution, but Greece should have its own reasons, which I briefly set out here, for ending the dispute.

An insistence on discussing the issue under the weight of concerns about Nato policy leads to a curious coupling of anti-imperialism and nationalistic chauvinism that is regressive and reactionary.

It should not be allowed to dominate the public debate.

[I]Augustine Zenakos is a journalist based in Athens[/I]

I wonder if Augustine Zenakos is quite possibly the only Greek in the world to have such a rational (=non Greek) view of the current situation.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;172804]I wonder if Augustine Zenakos is quite possibly the only Greek in the world to have such a rational (=non Greek) view of the current situation.[/QUOTE]

Well, he's correctly not described as a "Greek journalist", but as a "journalist based in Athens", the kind of leftist who will even become pro-NATO and "pro-imperialism" when it is to speak against Greece.

In this instance, he is far closer to reality than any other Greek I have met online.

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;172805]Well, he's correctly not described as a "Greek journalist", but as a "journalist based in Athens", the kind of leftist who will even become pro-NATO and "pro-imperialism" when it is to speak against Greece.[/QUOTE]

Really Amphipolis? Is that the excuse you come up with?
Your reasoning is both skewered and pathetic.
The reality of it is, as Risto stated above, is that this journalist is very rational.

With a name like Zenakos, he is not just a journalist based in Athens...

[url]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-greece-macedonia-opposition/greek-opposition-wont-back-deal-on-name-unless-skopje-changes-constitution-idUSKBN1HJ1SJ[/url]

[B]Greek opposition won't back deal on name unless Skopje changes constitution[/B]

ATHENS (Reuters) - Greece’s conservative political opposition will not back a deal to settle a decades-old row with Macedonia over its name unless the ex-Yugoslav republic changes its constitution, its leader said on Thursday.

Athens and Skopje are negotiating to settle a dispute that has kept Macedonia from joining NATO and the European Union. Greece believes the name “Macedonia” implies a territorial claim over its northern region, which uses the same name.

“We will express our strong disagreement in parliament if and when such an accord comes,” New Democracy leader Kyriakos Mitsotakis, whose party leads the country’s leftist-led government in opinion polls, told the foreign press association.

“A constitutional review (by Skopje) is a necessary precondition for an accord,” he said.

[U]The changes New Democracy wants would affect passages in the Macedonian constitution that refer to nationality, language and other articles. Macedonia so far has refused to consider any such changes. And in any case the Greek government can pass any agreement without the help of New Democracy. [/U]

Hundreds of thousands of Greeks rallied in the northern city of Thessaloniki and in Athens earlier this year to protest against the use of the name “Macedonia” in any solution to the row.

Mitsotakis accused the government of conducting “secret diplomacy” and then briefing political parties in the opposition, saying its tactics are dividing Greeks.

Talks between the two states have been inconclusive since 1991, when Macedonia withdrew from former Yugoslavia. It was admitted into the United Nations in 1993 under the name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, sometimes referred to as FYROM.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DagctcUWsAMVxde.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Niko777;172854][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DagctcUWsAMVxde.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I would love to know how the Macedonian 'negotiators' deal with the outrageous claim from the greek side that our name is a threat to them...clearly only a very minor section of the greek lunatic fringe consider us a threat and yet the greek side has used this red herring quite successfully as the cornerstone of their argument against Macedonia's recognition.

It is time that the Macedonian leadership called out the real issue that has created this ridiculous stalemate...which is the annexation of Macedonian lands and the plethora of human rights abuses against the indigenous Macedonian population that have followed ever since...this is what the greeks are trying to conceal, the many ethnic skeletons that exist in the so called 'homogenous greek' closet.

From the website of today's EU summit in Sofia

[IMG]https://fokus.mk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/jazikot-3676ton7zh5j75kg1hf5s0-696x383.jpg[/IMG]

What an interesting collection of different languages:

Bosnian:
Mi, lideri Evropske unije (EU) i njenih zemalja članica, uz konsultacije sa našim partnerima sa Zapadnog Balkana, i u prisustvu relevantnih zainteresovanih strana iz regiona, danas zaključujemo sljedeće:

Montenegrin:
Mi, lideri Evropske unije (EU) i njenih zemalja članica, uz konsultacije sa našim partnerima sa Zapadnog Balkana, i u prisustvu relevantnih zainteresovanih strana iz regiona, danas zaključujemo sljedeće:

Serbian:
Ми, лидери Европске уније (ЕУ) и њених држава чланица, у консултацији са партнерима са Западног Балкана и у присуству релевантних регионалних актера, данас смо закључили следеће

[QUOTE=Niko777;173348]From the website of today's EU summit in Sofia

[IMG]https://fokus.mk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/jazikot-3676ton7zh5j75kg1hf5s0-696x383.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Ahhhh that Bulgarian friendship agreement... the Tartars will say our countries have never been closer

[url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/macedonia-greece-close-to-ending-decades-old-dispute-over-name-1526579523[/url]

[B]Macedonia, Greece Close to Ending Decades-Old Dispute Over Name [/B]

Greece has long blocked Balkan neighbor’s EU membership due to dispute over its name

SOFIA, Bulgaria—Greece and its neighbor, Macedonia, are close to resolving a decades-old dispute that has prevented the small Balkan country from joining the European Union, creating a rare bright spot in a region where hopes of joining the bloc remain largely on hold.

Greece has long blocked Macedonia’s EU membership because of its long-running objections the country’s name. The former part of Yugoslavia, then known as the Socialist Republic of Macedonia, adopted the shortened version Macedonia when it became independent 27 years ago.

That triggered a dispute with neighboring Greece, which contains a neighboring region called Macedonia—named, like the country to its north, after the ancient kingdom of Alexander the Great. Athens has used its veto power to keep the newcomer out of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and to block EU accession talks. As a result, the provisional name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, or Fyrom, is used by international organizations and countries that don’t recognize the state, although about 140 countries recognize its constitutional name, the Republic of Macedonia.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and his Macedonian counterpart, Zoran Zaev, agreed in Sofia on nearly all the parameters of an international deal, according to several officials. [B][U]It is most likely that the the Balkan nation will go by the new name “Upper Macedonia,” officials from both countries said. [/U][/B]

If they manage to iron out the last details, the two countries could strike a final deal before the next summit of EU leaders in late June, when the European Commission could vote to start accession talks with Macedonia.

The two countries have been keen to come to an agreement before the next NATO summit on July 11.

Any accord would require approval by parliaments in both countries. Macedonia’s fragile government would also have to revise the country’s constitution to reflect the changes.

Meanwhile, doubts among EU members about the pace of the bloc’s enlargement and conditions for admitting new countries are spelling a long wait for Macedonia’s Balkan neighbors.

Pressed by concerns about Russian, Chinese and Turkish influence in the Balkans, the EU’s executive earlier this year set 2025 as a target date for enlarging the bloc to at least the most advanced of the nonmember Balkan countries, namely Albania, Montenegro, and Serbia, aside from Macedonia.

However, at a meeting of EU and Balkan leaders in the Bulgarian capital on Thursday, the obstacles to enlargement were again on display. Spain’s Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, whose country faces its own secession issues with Catalonia and is one of five EU members not to recognize the former Serbian province of Kosovo as an independent country, left the meeting early.

French President Emmanuel Macron said previous enlargements had contributed to a weakening of the EU over the past 15 years. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she preferred to focus on the speed of economic, judicial and political reforms in the aspirant members, not target dates.

"Opening up a time horizon I think isn’t so important,” she said in a press conference.

After the wars that followed the disintegration of Yugoslavia, the EU lost focus on the region as the bloc was consumed by its own internal crises. Nonetheless, Bulgaria and Romania became members in 2007 and Croatia joined in 2013. Brussels currently sees Serbia and Montenegro as the Balkan countries best placed to join.