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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Carlin 01-13-2019 10:42 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/uQO2Aan.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Kzucof2.jpg[/img]

Stojacanec 01-13-2019 11:56 PM

A country that cannot even run a proper referendum, cannot run a proper census.
Blind followers led by faceless politicians.

What a shameful day.
I am lost for words.

Rogi 01-14-2019 01:56 AM

Vicsinad,

I don't think Russia will do anything in the UN to stop this. Their interest is not in saving our name, but rather in delaying or preventing NATO membership - they can do that covertly by getting Bulgaria to veto or by persuading Albania to veto unless more concessions are made to Albanians in Macedonia.

maco2envy 01-14-2019 02:26 AM

Bulgaria and Albania are too insignificant to have any veto power because they can be very easily influenced (threatened) by America.

If Russia and China veto the agreement, that's 2/5 UN permanent member that are against the deal. More on the veto power of permanent members:

[QUOTE]The "power of veto" refers to the veto power wielded solely by the permanent members, enabling them to prevent the adoption of any "substantive" draft Council resolution, regardless of the level of international support for the draft. The veto does not apply to procedural votes, which is significant in that the Security Council's permanent membership can vote against a "procedural" draft resolution, without necessarily blocking its adoption by the Council.

The veto is exercised when any permanent member—the so-called "P5"—casts a "negative" vote on a "substantive" draft resolution. Abstention or absence from the vote by a permanent member does not prevent a draft resolution from being adopted.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_members_of_the_United_Nations_Security_Council"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_members_of_the_United_Nations_Security_Council[/URL]
and more
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power[/url]

Pelagonija 01-14-2019 05:44 AM

Everyone is to serious on this forum.

Have a laugh, Zaev won the nobel peace prize in vevcani.

[url]http://www.minareport.com/2019/01/14/vevcani-carnival-awards-zaevs-mother-with-nobel-prize-category-wish-he-was-never-born/[/url]

Fark the cunts as we say in Australia. These little NATO whores must be itching for a fight.. America can send them on a mission in their next war.. maybe send the little pederishtana to Donbass.

vicsinad 01-14-2019 06:59 AM

In all likeliness, Russia will simply make a statement about the matter.

Given that Macedonians have remained passive, the only real act that can save the name from being changed now is a failure in Greek parliament to pass the agreement.

Vangelovski 01-14-2019 07:18 AM

At times like these I can't help but think back to all those people who would reassure us that Gruevski had a plan or that it wasn't the right time to pull out of negotiations. I think my all time favourite was when Meto said that Macedonia should not end the negotiations but temporarily suspend them.

It was a time of complete delusional fuckwitism. Like that idiot qouted above, I wonder how many others will suffer from the bitter after taste of ass once the euros never rain down.

Phoenix 01-14-2019 08:12 AM

[QUOTE=Rogi;178445]Vicsinad,

I don't think Russia will do anything in the UN to stop this. Their interest is not in saving our name, but rather in delaying or preventing NATO membership - they can do that covertly by getting Bulgaria to veto or by persuading Albania to veto unless more concessions are made to Albanians in Macedonia.[/QUOTE]

The Albanians wouldn't dare disrupt any plan the US has for Macedonia or the Balkans.

vicsinad 01-14-2019 08:26 AM

So the new identity cards will include minorities' ethnicities. How ridiculous.

(Article translated into English from Google)

[URL="https://www.slobodnaevropa.mk/a/29708979.html"]https://www.slobodnaevropa.mk/a/29708979.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]Within five years or by 2024 at the latest, the personal documents of the citizens will bear the new name "Republic of Northern Macedonia". [B][U]The new amendments will include the ethnicity of the minority communities in the country.
[/U][/B]
New identity cards and passports will have to be purchased by the citizens, as well as new plates of the registration plates of their vehicles, [B]within five years at the latest after the name agreement in the Greek Parliament has been ratified[/B] and after the Macedonian MPs pass the necessary constitutional changes sealed the new name of the state "Republic of Northern Macedonia".

The registration plates in the future will bear the abbreviation NМ or NМК, and the new name of the country will be inserted in the identity cards and passports. Within 5 years, all other documentation of the public administration for external use, but also for internal use, will have to be changed and their publication will start with the opening of each chapter of the relevant field in the negotiations with the EU. [B]This means that each institution will change its name and documentation step by step.
[/B]
It is still not known how the personal documents of the citizens will be changed, which will not expire within the given deadline, although this will not be their burden, at least according to the Government's announcements so far. In any case, by 2024, citizens will need to have an identity card or passport under the new state name.

The hardest part was the adoption of constitutional changes, but difficulties are also expected to implement the agreed process, depending on the political situation in the country, political analyst Xhelal Neziri said. According to him, the opening of the perspectives for Macedonia and NATO membership would create a better ground for the name-no-agreement agreement to be implemented.

"Otherwise, if this NATO effect does not happen or if the EU integration process does not give the expected results, I think the implementation will be a difficult process," Neziri said.
What were the initial amendments to the government, and what was finally accepted at the end?

The government initially announced four constitutional amendments that were directly derived from the Prespa Agreement. But after months of debates, political maneuvers and in order to secure the required two-thirds majority, they underwent changes.

At first, [B]DUI's request was accepted, the Ohrid Framework Agreement to be inserted in the Preamble to the Constitution. [/B]The MPs also adopted the amendment of the independent parliamentary group of VMRO-DPMNE with which [B]the constitutional amendments do not apply if Greece did not fulfill its obligations under the name agreement.

[/B]The most difficult part was the final phase of the adoption of the constitutional changes when, after several daily negotiations, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev reached an agreement with the Besa party of Bill Kasami, who had the key two MPs to complete the process.
Neziri points out that the aim of the political parties was to collect political points.

"All of these parties and groups [B]were in fact not guided by whether the treaty was good or not, but were guided by what they would receive specifically as political parties and groups[/B]. I think that these amendments do not fundamentally change what has been agreed and which stands as an agreement between the two sides in Prespa and will not be reflected in the further implementation process, "adds Neziri.

With the amendment to Besa, besides the citizenship that will be Macedonian, there will be the nationality, that is, the ethnicity of the citizens from the minority communities. An amendment confirming that the Republic instead of the Macedonians equally takes care of all its citizens in the Diaspora, as well as the amendment stating that Macedonia has a new neighbor Republic of Kosovo.[/QUOTE]

Phoenix 01-14-2019 08:41 AM

[QUOTE=Gocka;178434]...I think they won't ratify it. I think they are genuinely worried about what the wild animals of a constituency will do in response. Even though it is the total and utter raping of our people, to them its not enough. Even if they manage to bribe the last few votes they need to get it over the line, I'm thinking the people won't take it lightly.

If they had any sense they would ratify that shit in a second, then again if they had sense they wouldn't be Greeks would they.[/QUOTE]

Zaev has handed to the greeks everything that they wanted, except the fact that "Macedonia" is still officially in the title of the country.
It's like the greeks have fallen short of the mark, Greece is a country that has spent a fortune on this matter for decades, they have bred generations of fervent lunatics to pursue this cause and yet "Macedonia", the holy grail, still exists in some raped form as a country to their north...I'm not sure how that will sit for a few million deluded zombies that are so easily whipped into a frenzy.

The vote in the greek parliament could easily go either way...civil unrest is a distinct possibility...dirty political tricks are a to be expected...anything could happen...

Up until recently I never imagined a Macedonian politician selling the name...I never imagined the greeks would ever ratify such an agreement...but then I never imagined the levels of blackmail, corruption and foreign coercion, the trampling of the law and the constitution, I never imagined the wholesale indifference of the Macedonians during the last 18 months as this madness ramped up...I guess from now on, anything is possible and to be expected.


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