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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Risto the Great 01-13-2019 08:01 PM

I have no idea why anyone is worried about whether the UN is able to sign off on this. This is kind of like how the use of "Constutional Name" was used instead of "Voldemort" (or Macedonia) previously. Who cares what happens when Macedonia clearly does not ‽ (Yes, I used an interrobang)

Macedonia doggedly insisted on calling itself FYROM for 25 odd years and all it did was preempt everyone else's right to question Macedonia's identity. Legal mumbo jumbo that appeals to the most intelligent of peasants in Macedonia. It could have all been much simpler.

Macedonians love a good technicality.

Risto the Great 01-13-2019 08:07 PM

So it appears the Greeks need 5 more votes (out of 300) from the opposition party to get NMKD over the line. Anyone feeling confident about the integrity of Greeks at this point?

Vangelovski 01-13-2019 08:46 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178431]I have no idea why anyone is worried about whether the UN is able to sign off on this.[/QUOTE]This is the eternal Macedonian problem.

FYI, the UN doesn't sign off on anything. Countries lodge their agreements with the UN registry so that they can then enforce them through UN institutions such as the international court. Otherwise, the UN has no say in the matter.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178431]Macedonians love a good technicality.[/QUOTE]Especially when it doesn't exist.

Gocka 01-13-2019 09:02 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178430]Based on the referendum results AND the fact that nothing has happened since, you must assume they are either not particularly concerned OR are totally in favour of this.[/QUOTE]

We know the 45% or whatever percent who voted yes obviously wanted a name change, that leaves roughly 55% who did not vote. Now I'm sure a good chunk of those were people who would have voted yes but couldn't be bothered to make the trip. I find i unfathomable that out of that 55% there wasn't at least some measurable amount of opposition. Even if only 5-10% of the population was in opposition, that still amounts to 100,000-200,000 people, yet you get a protest of 200 people.

I know they are apathetic but fuck me, its not like its some inconsequential issue like gay marriage, where unless you are gay or extremely religious, you probably don't care either way.

To think that potentially 800-900,000 people who didn't vote just don't give a shit either way, it makes my brain hurt.

Obviously when you take everything post referendum into account, you can only assume that they don't care, its just so hard to accept that so few cared.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178431]I have no idea why anyone is worried about whether the UN is able to sign off on this. This is kind of like how the use of "Constutional Name" was used instead of "Voldemort" (or Macedonia) previously. Who cares what happens when Macedonia clearly does not ‽ (Yes, I used an interrobang)

Macedonia doggedly insisted on calling itself FYROM for 25 odd years and all it did was preempt everyone else's right to question Macedonia's identity. Legal mumbo jumbo that appeals to the most intelligent of peasants in Macedonia. It could have all been much simpler.

Macedonians love a good technicality.[/QUOTE]

Its all meaningless mumbo jumbo. You held a referendum, you got a 2/3 majority in your parliament, you changed your constitution. Whether someone in Brussels puts a rubber stamp on a piece of paper changes nothing. You changed your own name, the end.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178432]So it appears the Greeks need 5 more votes (out of 300) from the opposition party to get NMKD over the line. Anyone feeling confident about the integrity of Greeks at this point?[/QUOTE]

I think they won't ratify it. I think they are genuinely worried about what the wild animals of a constituency will do in response. Even though it is the total and utter raping of our people, to them its not enough. Even if they manage to bribe the last few votes they need to get it over the line, I'm thinking the people won't take it lightly.

If they had any sense they would ratify that shit in a second, then again if they had sense they wouldn't be Greeks would they.

Carlin 01-13-2019 09:02 PM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;178432]So it appears the Greeks need 5 more votes (out of 300) from the opposition party to get NMKD over the line. Anyone feeling confident about the integrity of Greeks at this point?[/QUOTE]

It looks like they will ratify it.

- Recapping what was announced today, but has been essentially a [B]prearranged deal[/B], the SYRIZA government will remain in power, with a renewed mandate, despite the criticism of the way this new majority is being created.

- SYRIZA itself has 145 deputies, and can count on the positive votes of Citizens Security deputy Minister, Katerina Papacosta, To Potami deputy Spyros Danellis, as well as four Independent Greeks deputies, Tourism Minister Elena Kountoura, Agriculture Deputy Minister Vassilis Kokkalis, and deputies Thanassis Papachristopoulos and Costas Zouraris. [B]They add up to the 151 needed for a simple majority in the 300-member Parliament[/B].

- Zoran Zaev called on Greek lawmakers to ratify the Prespes accord during a press conference on Saturday, a day after his country's Parliament approved the constitutional amendments required under the deal with Greece. It seems his call will be answered.

[url]http://www.ekathimerini.com/236552/article/ekathimerini/news/how-the-kammenos-tsipras-deal-allows-the-latter-to-govern-and-prespes-agreement-to-be-passed[/url]
[url]https://makfax.com.mk/svet/region/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5-%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0-%D1%81%D0%B5/[/url]

vicsinad 01-13-2019 09:49 PM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;178433]

FYI, the UN doesn't sign off on anything. Countries lodge their agreements with the UN registry so that they can then enforce them through UN institutions such as the international court. Otherwise, the UN has no say in the matter.
[/QUOTE]

That's likely to be the case. But Russia may, if it wants to put up a geopolitical stink and stir the waters, bring this to the UN. This was hinted at in one of their press releases:

[QUOTE]As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, Russia is closely monitoring the development of this situation. [B][U]We proceed from the fact that according to paragraph 3 of UN Security Council Resolution 845, the results of the talks between Skopje and Athens will be considered at the UN Security Council[/U][/B].[/QUOTE]

I say that based on this, Russia has a case (albeit not a very good one) for arguing that the Prespa Agreement needs the Security Council's approval, especially because the Prespa Agreement says this:

[QUOTE]Final Agreement for the settlement of the differences as described in the United Nations Security Council Resolution 817 (1993) and 845 (1993), the termination of the Interim Accord of 1995, and the establishment of a strategic partnership between the parties.

This Agreement is final and upon its entry into force[U] terminates the Interim Accord[/U] between the Parties signed in New York on 13 September 1995.

The Parties recognize as[U] binding the outcome of the negotiations that have take place under the auspices of the United Nations, to which both Parties have been committed pursuant to the United Nations Security Council resolutions 817 (1993) and 845 (1993) as well as the Interim Accord of 1995.[/U]
[/QUOTE]

It's certainly not the best argument to make that Russia can use the Security Council to derail this agreement. But in this moment I'll take any feeble and illegitimate attempt to derail this illegitimate process. Macedonians aren't willing to save themselves and Russia can't/won't either; but if Russia can give the West and North Macedonians some headaches and delays by throwing a stink about this and making this circus even bigger than it already is, I'm all for it. I'd use it as a last-ditch legal argument knowing that Macedonians themselves aren't doing anything.

And if Russia can score some political points by doing this -- and even manage to influence (or create confusion for) the way UN does business -- then they're all for it.

Nothing like making a mockery out of processes and decisions that have made a mockery out of Macedonia, Macedonians and democratic values and principles. Nowhere in Res. 845 or any of the resolutions/accords does it say that the UN SC will vote on this matter. But I would love to see Russia put some effort into this -- it'd be more than anything the Macedonians put in.

vicsinad 01-13-2019 10:09 PM

Confused North Macedonian (this from a Macedonian journalist that supported the name change):

[URL="https://twitter.com/VPetreski/status/1084624536581144578"]https://twitter.com/VPetreski/status/1084624536581144578[/URL]

Vladimir Petreski:
[QUOTE]
I know it was necessary, I know it was the right thing to do, but this bitter aftertaste, these waves of nausea I get thinking about it must be my being's internal protest ag. the injustices of realpolitik under whose rules we had to change our country's name. North #Macedonia[/QUOTE]

How can supporting injustice be considered the "right" thing to do?

Vangelovski 01-13-2019 10:21 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178437]Confused North Macedonian (this from a Macedonian journalist that supported the name change):

[URL="https://twitter.com/VPetreski/status/1084624536581144578"]https://twitter.com/VPetreski/status/1084624536581144578[/URL]

Vladimir Petreski:


How can supporting injustice be considered the "right" thing to do?[/QUOTE]

The degenerate's own stomach is rejecting him.

vicsinad 01-13-2019 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;178438]The degenerate's own stomach is rejecting him.[/QUOTE]

lol thanks I needed a laugh

Risto the Great 01-13-2019 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=former Fyromian]I know it was necessary, I know it was the right thing to do, but this bitter aftertaste, these waves of nausea I get thinking about it [/QUOTE]... Ygritte would advise him ...
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/rSxGrEx.png[/IMG]


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