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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Nikolaj 11-14-2014 12:01 AM

It's as if they've forgotten what a 'Republic' is...

I :shit: on their proposal.

George S. 11-14-2014 12:46 AM

Think about the sort of govts have been in existence.If you are talking about greece they never going to conced anything.The very thing is linked to thei nationalism.They have it as a requirement ,a must that alexander was greek and spoke greek.Think about the propaganda that has sprouted up since 2012.Forced assimilation,forbade speaking of macedonian idiom.change toponyms names etc.Do you think they will change their tack.Does a leapard change her spots???

Vangelovski 11-18-2014 12:00 AM

[url]http://fokus.mk/video-studentite-od-ukim-ne-za-eksterno/[/url]

2,000 students protest against independent assessment of their work. This is probably one of the largest protests against the Government. I can only think of one or two examples of when more than a few thousand Macedonians protested anything or protested anything for more than one day.

Given student activism across most countries and the evidence of its existence in Macedonia, you would think that they would at least get more involved in pressuring the Government on the name negotiations. But I think self-interest, rather than national interest (which can be a form of self-interest, though not as direct) is the mobilising factor for most Macedonians.

Risto the Great 11-18-2014 03:34 PM

Macedonians in Macedonia are mostly oblivious to the name issue. I'm convinced the name issue does not affect them anywhere near as much as it does Macedonians in the diaspora.

Vangelovski 11-18-2014 05:56 PM

An example of student activism in Macedonia (though of the wrong kind). This protest is calling on Macedonians to 'wake up to themselves' with the aim of strengthening Macedonian national awareness...all the while promoting the ventilator. What a waste.

[url=http://postimage.org/][img]http://s26.postimg.org/92yvaqqwp/Student_Protest.jpg[/img][/url]

Gocka 11-18-2014 08:08 PM

From my experience there a few glaring problems that stop true Macedonian activism and revolution in Macedonia.

It is my belief that Macedonians are utilitarian. They don't see the value in anything unless it can get them something tangible in return.

Most Macedonians lack principles by which they live by. Most revolutions require a principled stand, you cant make a principled stand if your are not capable of or willing to have set principles. This can even be linked to the above. Standing by something in principle sometimes requires you to give up present value in return for potential future value. Generally people who are Utilitarian have no principles because they are constantly changing based on whats useful at the present.

Shame, Macedonians are terrified of shame. They are always worried about what others will think of them. Most movements require you to throw caution to the wind and proudly step forward and stand by your assertions. Most Macedonians are way to conceded about thier image to put themselves out there in that kind of manner.

Pessimism/Victimism/Apathy

Macedonians are pessimistic by nature because they always feel like the victims of the world and that makes them apathetic. Some of it was ingrained in us by our Turkish masters, perpetuated by our Communist brothers, and solidified by our modern day political leaders. There is always someone to blame, there's always a reason to not do something, there is always no point of trying.

Add all these together and you have one hopeless bunch of people who cant get out of thier own way. It all starts with teaching the youth that they deserve better and that they should take it for themselves, that no one is going to give it to them.

Americans have this go getter type of arrogance. They punch above thier weight because they believe that they can.

Macedonians problems are systemic From the upbringing of children, to the schools, to the political system. It all helps to perpetuate this mess. It all has to come down in order to move forward.

Risto the Great 11-19-2014 03:35 AM

[QUOTE=Gocka;156666]Americans have this go getter type of arrogance. They punch above thier weight because they believe that they can.

Macedonians problems are systemic From the upbringing of children, to the schools, to the political system. It all helps to perpetuate this mess. It all has to come down in order to move forward.[/QUOTE]
Good points. Don't forget 500 years of not measuring up to the Ottoman invaders as well.

I find the American sense of self belief mostly unfounded but terribly useful in defying the odds. I also think their ability to celebrate the success of others make them quite culturally unique in a way.

Vangelovski 11-20-2014 08:00 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;156666]Generally people who are Utilitarian have no principles because they are constantly changing based on whats useful at the present.
[/QUOTE]I don't think Macedonians are utilitarians - utilitarians still believe in the greater good for as many people as possible. Macedonians just believe in their own personal greater good.

Gocka 11-20-2014 10:29 PM

That's true, I guess you could say they all live in thier own little utilitarian worlds.

What really baffles me is that we have a country where half the country pisses and moans about how great communism was, not realizing that communism is a collectivist system. So we a country full of ex communists who do not want to act collectively yet want a collective socio-economic system. :6:

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;156790]I don't think Macedonians are utilitarians - utilitarians still believe in the greater good for as many people as possible. Macedonians just believe in their own personal greater good.[/QUOTE]

Vangelovski 11-20-2014 11:39 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;156795]That's true, I guess you could say they all live in thier own little utilitarian worlds.

What really baffles me is that we have a country where half the country pisses and moans about how great communism was, not realizing that communism is a collectivist system. So we a country full of ex communists who do not want to act collectively yet want a collective socio-economic system. :6:[/QUOTE]I think that's called mooch-off-everyone-else-ism


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