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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

indigen 06-20-2010 09:45 PM

[QUOTE=OziMak;60283]

[B]Sadly the interim accord was thrown upon us at a time of weakness.[/B] [COLOR="Red"]Today we are in a much better position and improving. The Interim Accord has been a dance with the devil who conclusion is drawing near. How solid will Macedonia be at that time is questionable but undoubtedly if things went on a little further our fighting chance would be enhanced that much more.[/COLOR]

[B]The day will come and not too far off when Macedonia will be called on to make a concrete decision and of course the answer will be we will have to jump out of the accord.[/B]

[COLOR="Red"]Not to repeat myself [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

OM, IMHO, you are just another [B]Snake Oil Salesman[/B] for the "Interim Accord" and the rest of the Vassal political treasonous acts committed by VASSAL "Macedonian" politicians. SAME PRODUCT, DIFFERENT SALES PITCH!!!

Your style is long-winded, mostly based on PURE BS, and in political alignment with the graduates from the "Buktop and Koloski School of Strategic Vassal Politics"! In other words, you are trying to peddle anti-Macedonian ideology and deeds as positives and unavoidable.

FYI: Macedonian Diaspora communities, especially in Australia, in no uncertain terms condemned the IA when it was first announced and you were either too young to know this, were living in a political shell or were a Gligorovist supporter of Vassal politics who recently migrated to Australia (if you are from Australia at all?).

Stojacanec 06-21-2010 02:32 AM

Ozimak if you really want to entertain the Greeks to the level of putting words infront of our name, do you really think it would stop there ??

We had a democratic election for which the name Republic of Macedonia was chosen.

It is on record we wanted an independent Macedonia well b4 the Illinden Uprising. Well before any Greek tried to put a trademark over the name Macedonia.

The dilluded Greeks accuse us of Monopolising the name. We have never suppressed the dilluded greeks from naming their administration centres as Macedonia west, east and central.

We never disputed the dilluded greeks to change the name of the airport in Solun.

Yet they accuse us of trying to Monoplise on the name. Whilist with the same breath their core argument for this name disput is ROMs territorial asspirations, for which the greeks cannot to this day give a logical answer as to how ROM is supposed to achieve this.

At the same time you have dh's like Medu Thaci trying to section off parts of Macedonia calling it Illarida with their own flag, languague, schools, police etc.

All under the EU !!!!

As the governor of the Reserve Bank of Aust says in his article "We can watch sickly Europe from afar"

He also goes on to say that China's share of global GDP would be bigger than whole of Europe in 5 years.

Macedonia does not have to be a "good neighbour" to give into to greek demands. If she is a good neighbour and the economy is steady other countries will want to invest there which means growth.

If EU/Greece want a name change then say NO to EU !!

indigen 06-21-2010 02:59 AM

[QUOTE=Stojacanec;60315]Ozimak if you really want to entertain the Greeks to the level of putting words infront of our name, do you really think it would stop there ??

[B]We had a democratic election for which the name [COLOR="Red"]Republic of[/COLOR] Macedonia was chosen.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Stojacanec,
FYI, Macedonians did NOT hold any elections to choose a name, and certainly "Republic of" is NOT part of the state name. It is simply a constitutional reference, akin to personal titles used with personal names (e.g. Mr, Sir, President, etc,) in formal situations and depending on life roles and achievements of a given individual. Thus Macedonia (like other states) has had several Constitutional references to-date - Peoples Republic, Socialist Republic and, from 1991, Republic since the renewed Macedonian state of Macedonia was established at ASNOM congress on August 2, 1944.

IME, some political forces with ulterior motives are propagating the idea that the constitutional reference "Republic" is part of the name and that we have thus changed the name of the state THREE times to date and that another change would not be a precedent or such a big deal! Our friend "Buktop" tried to push this line not long ago right here on MTO but did not persist with it for long, though I think he and his UMD buddies have not given up on that strategy yet.

makedonche 06-21-2010 03:16 AM

[QUOTE=indigen;60317]Stojacanec,
FYI, Macedonians did NOT hold any elections to choose a name, and certainly "Republic of" is NOT part of the state name. It is simply a constitutional reference, akin to personal titles used with personal names (e.g. Mr, Sir, President, etc,) in formal situations and depending on life roles and achievements of a given individual. Thus Macedonia (like other states) has had several Constitutional references to-date - Peoples Republic, Socialist Republic and, from 1991, Republic since the renewed Macedonian state of Macedonia was established at ASNOM congress on August 2, 1944.

IME, some political forces with ulterior motives are propagating the idea that the constitutional reference "Republic" is part of the name and that we have thus changed the name of the state THREE times to date and that another change would not be a precedent or such a big deal! Our friend "Buktop" tried to push this line not long ago right here on MTO but did not persist with it for long, though I think he and his UMD buddies have not given up on that strategy yet.[/QUOTE]

Indigen
Please describe the process that led to the "Republic of Macedonia" if you wouldn't mind?

indigen 06-21-2010 05:10 AM

[QUOTE=makedonche;60320]Indigen
Please describe the process that led to the "Republic of Macedonia" if you wouldn't mind?[/QUOTE]

What exactly do you want to know? I am not a history book and you would need to consult one (a decent one or even several of them) if you want a detailed historical knowledge about the evolution of the Macedonian people/nation and the state of Macedonia over the ages.

Btw, IME, the "Macedonian National Program" (link found in my signature below) gives quite an effective general historical outline of the reborn Macedonian state and the historical narrative of the Macedonian nation!

We beat this topic to death at following link:
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3189&page=3[/url]

There is a post of mine at following link in same topic above containing some relevant excerpts of the "Macedonian National Program" translated in English:
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=46617&postcount=90[/url]

One can also check the info at the links below:
[QUOTE]Dr. Cvetan Cvetkovski, Ass. Professor,
Faculty of Law, Skopje, Republic of Macedonia

CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY
OF THE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA
[url]http://www.cecl.gr/RigasNetwork/databank/REPORTS/r1/Fyrom_R1_Cvetkovski.html[/url][/QUOTE]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Republic_of_Macedonia[/url]


[QUOTE][URL="http://soros.org.mk/archive/G09/A09/aar09.htm"][COLOR="Navy"]MACEDONIA After the World War II (1945-1991)[/COLOR][/URL][/QUOTE]

makedonche 06-21-2010 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=indigen;60334]What exactly do you want to know? I am not a history book and you would need to consult one (a decent one or even several of them) if you want a detailed historical knowledge about the evolution of the Macedonian people/nation and the state of Macedonia over the ages.

Btw, IME, the "Macedonian National Program" (link found in my signature below) gives quite an effective general historical outline of the reborn Macedonian state and the historical narrative of the Macedonian nation!

We beat this topic to death at following link:
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3189&page=3[/url]

There is a post of mine at following link in same topic above containing some relevant excerpts of the "Macedonian National Program" translated in English:
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=46617&postcount=90[/url]

One can also check the info at the links below:


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Republic_of_Macedonia[/url][/QUOTE]

Indigen
You misunderstand me - perhaps I should have said what process was used to determine the name " Republic of Macedonia" - my understanding is that it was a referendum as opposed to voting.

Pelister 06-21-2010 08:51 PM

[QUOTE=makedonche;60014]I read all these posts with absolute trepidation, I cannot believe we are even discussing this or that we have devoted a thread to something that doesn't exist. I would ask all MTO members to refrain from this type of absolute GARBAGE. For the record:-
"THERE IS NO NAME DISPUTE"
GREECE HAS A PROBLEM WITH OUR SELF DETERMINED NAME, THEREFORE GREECE HAS A PROBLEM, WE DO NOT! DON'T GIVE THIS TOPIC MORE CONSIDERATION OR DISCUSSION AS WE PERPETUATE IT INTO REALITY!
I ALSO REQUEST THAT THE MODS DELETE THIS THREAD AND NOT LET ANY MORE GARBAGE LIKE THIS POLLUTE THE MTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

We have the genius's in the Macedonian government who have done that for us.

They have given this topic all the fuel and fire power it could ever have - underming our rights, our history and our institutions in this way. The assumptions made by Greece in this dispute are implied, they are not explicity stated. Every assumption is a lie and a direct attack on our existence, but because it is implied it has slipped passed the Macedonians, probably unnoticed. But by engaging their position on equal terms, we are exporting the message to the whole world that the Greeks have a legitimate grievance, a legitimate claim ...etc. The terms should have been rejected from the very beginning.

The only "solution" is to disengage. Get out now.

Pelister 06-21-2010 09:05 PM

Your right, Frank. The "negotiations" must end immediately.

People have to come to understand eventually that there is a battle going on in Macedonia, to extinuiguish its existence. To wipe it off the map. It is a battle between the Europe colonial system and its client the Hellenic Republic, and the principle of equality. A quick look at European policy (not Greek policy) over the last century reveals that they not only funded our dispossession, but managed it. Take a look at what the League of Nations actually did to the Macedonians - they funded and managed our dispossession, and its re-colonization. We were shut out of discussions, despite thousands of protests and petitions. Our "eradication" as Europe put it was basically implied in every relevent Treaty that they created. We were shut out then, and we are being shut out now. The "negotiations" are simply a political tool to put the question of our destruction into play - to put that question in short to a vote. It is a pervesion of our history, a pervesion of natural law, natural justice and morality, and a pervesion of our existence that these 'negotiations' be allowed to continue.

Makedonetz 06-21-2010 09:10 PM

Bravo brothers and sisters

time has come to put the cards on the table and call Greece's EU and every other country's bluff that is supressing our dignity and rights to hear :macedoniaWE ARE MACEDONIANS :macedonia

They want a fight lets give them one our next generation will remember Svodboda Ili Smrt :gunsmilie:

indigen 06-21-2010 09:41 PM

[QUOTE=makedonche;60414]Indigen
You misunderstand me - perhaps I should have said what process was used to determine the name " Republic of Macedonia" - my understanding is that it was a referendum as opposed to voting.[/QUOTE]

OK, I may have misunderstood you.

Post first "democratic" multi-party elections, held in Nov 1990, the new parliament, following the formation of the "Ekspertska Vlada" (Government of Experts or Technocrats) in March 1991, voted (it is said to be on April 16, which makes sense to me) to amend the existing constitution of SRM and to remove "Socialist" from the constitutional reference (official name/title) of Macedonia, and this came into force/effect on June 7, 1991.

Below info to confirm the above:
[QUOTE][COLOR="Red"]On April 16, 1991 the parliament adopted the constitutional amendment for removing the "Socialist" adjective from the official name of the country, and on June 7 the same year, the new name Republic of Macedonia was officially established.[/COLOR][3]. [the cited n3 is a missing link for a MIA page.]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Republic_of_Macedonia[/url]


Dates for sessions of the Mk Sobranie:

[B]7 јуни 1991 година[/B]
Шеснаесетта седница на Собранието на [B]Република Македонија[/B]

[B]23 мај 1991 година[/B]
Петнаесетта седница на Собранието на [B]Социјалистичка Република Македонија[/B]

[url]http://www.sobranie.mk/default.asp?ItemID=18EF4DCD2279F849B29F80B65CF3A4A5[/url]
[/QUOTE]


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