![]() |
I acknowledge your position and understand what you are saying, but I still believe that the RoM will change the name. Period.
Everything else will then fall into order. Don't hold me personally responsible for this situation. It is just the way I see things eventuating. |
The reason as given before Risto, as to why no acknowledgement, is because the name issue has to be finalised first. Then and only then can Greece accurately define its minority.
|
What evidence do you have that suggests Greece will define its minority?
Doesn't that effectively admit that it has been duping the masses for 100 years now. Why should the Macedonian minority of Greece be called the same name as the changed name of the Republic? For example, let us say in a Greek wet dream, Macedonia is changed to North Macedonia .... why would the Southern Macedonians be called North Macedonians? Are you thick or just toeing the "corporate line"? |
That's a load of bull buddy, Greece had since 1949 to recognize the minority by any name it chose, and now all of a sudden they are waiting for the name issue to be sorted out.
Greece has no intention of recognizing anything, we on the other hand will not give anything anymore, let the chips fall where they may, the Macedonian people, language and national identity will live on forever, Greek politics will never change that fact. |
For Greece to recognise any ethnic Minority, it will need to re establish the very fabric of their nation. Has this process already been prepared? I don't think so. It seems to me that we have Karaman and Bakoyani as the last bastions of what will be known as 'the old greece' in the future.
If ethnic Macedonians are recognised in Greece, another broader reality will need to be recognised, and that is that Greece is a multiethnic country. It is a fundamental shift in Greece's policy and identity as it is defined today. Anyone who is trying to tell me that Greece is ready to recognise the Macedonian identity under her status-quo of democratic defficiency, is either pulling my leg or trying to take me for a fool. |
[QUOTE=Risto the Great;3253]What evidence do you have that suggests Greece will define its minority?
Doesn't that effectively admit that it has been duping the masses for 100 years now. Why should the Macedonian minority of Greece be called the same name as the changed name of the Republic? For example, let us say in a Greek wet dream, Macedonia is changed to North Macedonia .... why would the Southern Macedonians be called North Macedonians? Are you thick or just toeing the "corporate line"?[/QUOTE] Greece will define the minority, as surely as the RoM will change its name. Its a natural and logical conclusion to the current situation. Greece is a modern European democracy and will honour all of its responsibilities. How can Greece not recognise the minority if they have a clear and accurate name by which o identify them with. The status quo with the RoM is what is currently stifling the ability of Greece to deliver. The procrastination from the RoM government on the name issue is clearly evident and is ultimately penalising the minority group. In a Greek wet dream, and the RoM's nightmare, the name will revert back to Vardarska, but we know that is not an option. As soon as the name is changed, Greece will be in a position to differentiate the Greek Macedonians from the North Macedonians. |
[QUOTE=Coolski;3261]For Greece to recognise any ethnic Minority, it will need to re establish the very fabric of their nation. Has this process already been prepared? I don't think so. It seems to me that we have Karaman and Bakoyani as the last bastions of what will be known as 'the old greece' in the future.
If ethnic Macedonians are recognised in Greece, another broader reality will need to be recognised, and that is that Greece is a multiethnic country. It is a fundamental shift in Greece's policy and identity as it is defined today. Anyone who is trying to tell me that Greece is ready to recognise the Macedonian identity under her status-quo of democratic defficiency, is either pulling my leg or trying to take me for a fool.[/QUOTE] Greece does not recognise the Macedonian ethnicity. Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like Victorians are Australians. They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf. They acknowledge a Bulgarian ethnicity but not a Μacedonian. |
[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3267]Greece does not recognise the Macedonian ethnicity.
Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like Victorians are Australians. They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf. They acknowledge a Bulgarian ethnicity but not a Μacedonian.[/QUOTE] I don’t think you realise the gravity of the situation, whatsoever. Greece doesn’t care about the name of Macedonia (which is why they only changed the region to the latter in 1988 or 1989 when Yugoslavia was collapsing), Greece cares about its resource rich lands. You have to realise that that geographic area is the richest in Greece, there is even oil off the coast, this was one of if not the fundamental reason for the Balkan wars. Didn’t you even consider realising as to why so many contradicting and confusing reports exist before and after the division of Macedonia in 1913 in terms of the ethnicity of the people? From many reports, articles and maps saying the whole area of geographic Macedonia there live predominantly Macedonians, with Bulgarian, turks etc and other reports suggesting that the whole area there are mostly Bulgarians and not mentioning Macedonians at all in some reports. What you should be asking is why is there an abundance of reports, documents and other pieces of evidences, mentioning Macedonians and people referring to themselves as Macedonians before and after the division of Macedonia in 1913, If all the people in Macedonia are actually ethnic Bulgarians. You have to also remember that these were the times when communication was through letters and speech and not like today through Global media and the internet. Therefore people could do almost whatever they wanted and it could go unnoticed to the world. Also, have you then to consider as to why the Greek political parties never mention the times before and after the division of Macedonia, but only consider the time of Tito. This is because Greece cannot disprove such evidences whatsoever of the pre existence of Macedonians long before Tito. But what Greece try’s to do instead is attempt to desperately claim Greek connection with the Macedonians from ancient times, and therefore refocuses attentions towards ancient times, and forces Macedonians to try and proof their existence with the ancients, thus forgetting everything and all recent evidences before Tito. Greece does this because if they can somehow claim connection with the ancient Macedonians they can claim rights to the lands they now occupy. You have to remember that the land that Greece holds is tied up in a treaty, thus its not because it has historically owned it. Have you also considered as to why it is that as of today many historians, especially those from elite institutions no longer consider the past ignorant claims of Macedonians as Greeks? Thus why would many historians and experts move away for the most part from the old traditional view if the Macedonians are undoubtedly Greeks? The fact is it’s politically motivated. How can Greece say only Greeks live in Greece, but then Greek-Macedonians exits, Then Greeks can refer to themselves as Macedonians but ethnic Macedonians cannot? How many Greeks in and around 1913 (or even before), can claim them being Macedonian from just before the division of Macedonia? How many Greek speakers or whatever it is they spoke from Asia Minor and the surrounding regions (which estimate well over 1,000,000), referred to themselves on record or any other pieces of evidences as Macedonians before and during the population transfers in the early to mid twentieth century. Why a published primer in 1925 by Greece referred in it the Macedonian language, but was just as quickly withdrawn? I don’t understand how you can’t think for a moment as to Why? Why? Why? The questions relating to the ancients is not whether Macedonians were Greek (because Macedonians were never referred to as Greeks nor did they refer to themselves as such – this the historians know),. its whether Alexander may have been at least half Greek. But does this give Greece an entire claim to the whole history of Macedonia (sure they can respect Alexander but to say that Macedonia is and always will be Greek despite all the evidence and experts views as of today) and then deprive the people who have always referred to themselves as Macedonian, and at the same time forces a nation of people to alter their nations name (due to political will and against all international norms). The Macedonians have been fighting for Macedonia’s right to independence before its division in 1913, and led many uprising before. The name of the country is ultimately tied to our identity; just As Greece is to Greek. But this again is pointless because you’ll never bother asking why so much evidence exists (a major problem in today’s Greece, granted there are exemptions) of us being referred to and known as simply Macedonian. You always assume this is what is and there are no exemptions to it, a trait familiar to Greece’s government initiatives. |
I can assure you that Greece has taken all these points you raise into consideration as they are discussing the name dispute in the United Nations.
Lets hope that a solution is achieved quickly so that normal and friendly neighbourly relations can resume, and that irredentist land claims and the like are shelved once and for all. |
[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3305]
so that normal and friendly neighbourly relations can resume.[/QUOTE] and you believe the crap, a? |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Macedonian Truth Organisation