[QUOTE=Vangelovski;39107]It seems UMD doesn't have an "official" position on any of the fundamental issues facing Macedonia...or maybe it does, but they have finally realised that they are out of step with the rest of the Diaspora and are afraid to comment.[/QUOTE]

Tom, my friend.

We would welcome your input on this resolution. Feel free to draft a letter regarding this resolution and we can review it and send it out. This is an oportunity where you can "influence" UMD's policy. That way you cannot say that UMD is not patriotic enough.

How about that?

[QUOTE=amitreski;40066]yes, by being UMD supporter and anti MPO.

I know Vlad and can judge his character. Do you know him so that you can base your claims on something concrete?[/QUOTE]

You people are so funny...

Somebody in your organization also thought they were such good judges of character that they thought it was possible to change a leopards spots by engaging MPO in your folly...

[QUOTE=indigen;40012]

Also, as A. Mitreski has stated here on MTO that "UMD" is responsive to its financial backers, we may freely assume that the Turkish (or whoever is providing the $150K) will have more say in shaping "UMD" political direction than the Macedonian Diaspora.

Food for thought![/QUOTE]


Stop lying. I have never said that.

Phoenix, You mentioned Star Bucks Coffee, what do you think they talked about there? 6 months later USA recognized our name and the EU gave us a candidacy status.

[QUOTE=Prolet;40072]Phoenix, You mentioned Star Bucks Coffee, what do you think they talked about there? 6 months later USA recognized our name and the EU gave us a candidacy status.[/QUOTE]

They were probably talking about chicks or what rocks their boat...

Prolet, you're acting like a fuckin' clown...where's the connection between Starbucks and US recognition and EU candidacy status...you're drawing such a long bow that you might as well add the greek victory in Euro2004 to the Starbucks work of UMD as well...

[QUOTE=Prolet;40060]
Phoenix, Whats your opinion on this? How do we get Australia and New Zealand to recognize our name?? You do realize that the more countries that recognize us the better our case is against Greece.[/QUOTE]

Phoenix, Well?? :whistling::whistling:

I never said that we got recognized because of the UMD, you know that.

The harm was done and there's still not one single person from UMD stand up as a man and to take the responsibility and face the consequences from his bad politics.

So according to your logic you may freely also invite the Greek organization to work together in the future.

[B]You have been in delusion for 5 years about 5 MPO.[/B]

Escaping of your responsibility will not last too long my friend and such debacles have loud echo among those you wish to represent.

Acting soo arrogant towards everyone and constantly proving your ingorancy, while many of us have been trying to point out the mistakes you made your responce was and still is the same by ignoring us.

amitreski, Meto did the same thing to me in my opportunity to question him in Adelaide. We are hoping the UMD has capacity for thought and can make strong forceful decisions for the betterment of Macedonians everywhere without relying on non-members opinions. But if you are looking for opinions that reflect the will of the Diaspora, I think my quick assessment is adequate.

If you are willing to send it out to Macedonian politicians, UMD members, the EU and other organisations, let me know and I will tidy it up for you. The worst thing that can happen is you will get some new members and keep some that are just about ready to leave.

Quite frankly though, any response now would be a little late. Do you agree?

Mitreski,

Are you trying to say that UMD cannot put together a statement on the EU resolution? Its been nearly two weeks!

Mitreski,

You're Treasurer just tangled himself up again on Macedonian Media Monitor. Perhaps you can give him a hand. So that I don't "take his comments out of context" again, I'll post his entire statement here. But its the same story - justifying why he supports a name change.

****************

[COLOR=black]I am very happy to read some positive messages on this forum. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Jordan - you are so right when you say that our egos are standing in our way of prosperity and unification. Instead of spending out precious time to help Macedonia and Macedonians around the world in any way we can, we are wasting it on blaming people that try their best to help.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]About my comments: Yes – that was my PERSONAL opinion and not UMD policy. UMD has 11 Board Members and its natural some of them to have a slightly different approach of how to help Macedonia.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]It’s not my intention to get into a debate to prove that my comments were right or wrong but they were taken out of context. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]When i wrote - [/COLOR]"Let me ask you this? What will you choose? People in Macedonia dying and starving or "Democratic Republic of Macedonia"? - I was thinking how my family and friends in Macedonia are having hard time seeing a better future in Macedonia without succession in EU and NATO. I was not thinking selfishly that i want to call myself a Macedonian, but I was thinking about what people in Macedonia want and need.

For the record – I oppose any name change to the constitutional name of Macedonia.



But I do think it’s better to be called Democratic Republic of Macedonia that FYROM in the International organizations like UN, NATO an EU.

You can take this out of context again and try to convince people that I support name change – but that would not help Macedonian and Macedonians around the world.

I suggest all of us to try to bury our hatchets and leave our disagreements from the past and try to united for the good of the Macedonian people

United We Can


[url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MacedonianMediaMonitor/message/13069[/url]


*******************

The way I see it so far: On the eve of conducting the census, the UMD has removed the MPO from participating. Therefore MPO census information will not be valid in it's count of the Macedonian population within the US. Is the UMD banking on those Macedonians who run with the MPO, to now realise that the MPO is nothing but a discredited organisation, and hopefully declare only as ethnic Macedonians? Is it a tactical move from the UMD?

Last night was Meto's open forum in perth, as I expected a total of 5 young generation Macedonians and the rest "the old guard" a complete and utter embarrassment towards the end of question time when there was a scuffle with a outburst of "naucise kako da zboruvas makedonski prvin"

99% at the end still had no clue what the umd is, and smirked at the $50 UMD membership drive.

BigMak, How many people rocked up? Why would they get pissed off for??

I was told that the community is bitterly divided overthere, maybe thats why.

[QUOTE]Bratot, can you tell me what was the harm? Will any Macedonians that wanted to declare themselves as Macedonia not declare as such on the census? Will some MPO member who are Macedonian declare as Macedonian, maybe?

With this project we added more work on the UMD board to justify the decision. So we added more work for ourselves, but look at the cause. We may get more Macedonians to declare as such at the census.[/QUOTE]

I'd strongly urge you to reconsider what you've written here and the argument you are making.

What you're effectively saying is that Macedonians will be declaring as Macedonians either way, regardless of what anyone says.

In which case, what is the point and value of the census project, and in what way is this 'added work', when, as implied, regardless of the efforts, Macedonians will declare as Macedonians?

You're too easily, or perhaps naively dismissing the insidious nature of the MPO and the Bulgarian attempts at the appropriation of the Macedonian identity; if it were so easily dismissed and so irrelevant, we would not have such a huge number of Bugaromani and Grkomani among our people.

In this situation, the MPO had been given a great deal of legitimacy as a 'Macedonian organisation' by including them in a coalition of Macedonian organisations. What eventuated was a clear 'Trojan Horse' scenario.

As for the harm done, it could be a great harm, when if only one Macedonian is duped by the insidious nature of the MPO and allowed by the legitimacy given to the MPO with their inclusion.

Or the harm done may be that Macedonians receiving letters addressed to them personally, informing them to declare as Bulgarians, could offend a great deal of Macedonians.

Or there may not be any harm at all, yet nonetheless the notion that an (now clearly evident to all, it if were not before) organisation with clearly anti-Macedonian positions and such an insidious nature, could be given trust by other Macedonian organisations and legitimised by its' inclusion in a coalition (alliance) indicates the very weak, nor non-existent, checks and bounds to prevent such potentially huge risks to the Macedonian cause.

It then also beckons the question of influence and what measures exist to prevent Macedonian organisations from being influenced against the Macedonian cause, in the same insidious manner, for which this particular case study serves as an example.

Basically the meeting was held at the venue of what is classified here as the Egejski club. or what a classic Perth seljak will refer it to as the greek club. Judging by the turnout of around 300 the old guard where of Egej decent and the Vardarci as they are referred to here were very minimal.

The outburst was directed towards Meto, not sure why or the reasoning behind it. It was after the end of question time, there was a total of 7-8 questions one included the reasoning behind meto's statement or support of a name change years ago, the rest were commentary based with one individual holding the mic for what seemed to be 15 minutes with a life story of when he was a little boy.

[QUOTE=amitreski;40071]

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by indigen

Also, as A. Mitreski has stated here on MTO that "UMD" is responsive to its financial backers, we may freely assume that the Turkish (or whoever is providing the $150K) will have more say in shaping "UMD" political direction than the Macedonian Diaspora.

Food for thought![/QUOTE]

Stop lying. I have never said that.[/QUOTE]

Mitreski, you are aware that I have NOT quoted you but only IMPLY the general sense of what you said. I will not retract what I said and say that you, as it is common amongst the other "UMD" reps and their zombie drones participating in public forums, appear to have a severe case of amnesia when it relates to recollection and interpretation of statements (official media releases or forum discussion posts) you make.

[QUOTE]amitreski: So there you have it. [COLOR="Red"][B]People that donate and support UMD get to influence the direction of UMD.[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Who is lying now, Mitreski? You are a complete joke, same as that fool Koloski!

BigMak, There is no such thing as Vardarci and Egejci there is only Makedonci you know that. Vardarci and Egejci are only used for geographical and territorial purposes thats it.

How did you like Meto's speech and were you satisfied with his answers?

[QUOTE=Prolet;40139]BigMak, There is no such thing as Vardarci and Egejci there is only Makedonci you know that. Vardarci and Egejci are only used for geographical and territorial purposes thats it.

How did you like Meto's speech and were you satisfied with his answers?[/QUOTE]

sho me prajs budala sega, You may as well come to perth and be the ambassador with a shot gun and get it through the thick heads here in perth. I was referring to the terminology used in Perth by our communities

Meto's speech was a complete and waste of time for me, nothing new nothing old and personally I don't really care what a 70 year old may have heard or not have heard in the audience as they are not the future of the Macedonian Diaspora

Its very disappointing that the average age was 70

The young generation would have been there in droves it it had free beer and spirits together with entertainment from the local strip club

Just another UMD membership drive nothing else

wow umd are that powerful that one starbucks meeting and the usa recognised us 6 months late.

so why did they need an office and turkish money when all they would have to do to is have coffees at a starbucks now and then and given the quality of the coffees served at starbucks drinking one of the banana flavoured de caf cappucinos would be a high enough price to pay for recognition anyway.

prolet that was the most outrageous statement i have ever heard anyone make about the umd and its effectiveness. i really dont think i can take anything you post about umd seriously anymore.

i regret to say this but buddy you are living in a complete fantasy land.

I know very little about the community in Perth. It seems like its terrible over there.

Thanks for the update BigMak

[quote=Prolet;40044]Jankovska will kick my arse LOL

Vangelovski, Ordan Andreevski is in charge and he has done a good job so far, i remember asking you what you thought was best for the UMD to be effective in Australia and you told me they should stick to fund raising, how come you dont agree with them opening up an office in Canberra? How do you expect them to lobby with the MP's?? Metodija raised a good point that we should be focusing on Australia recognizing our constitutional name, if they can do it in Canada and USA why cant we do it in New Zealand and Australia??

[URL="http://www.australianmacedonianweekly.com/edition/1110_09022010/010_najnovi_k.html"][url]http://www.australianmacedonianweekly.com/edition/1110_09022010/010_najnovi_k.html[/url][/URL][/quote]


Prolet,

Are you from Melbourne?

I said UMD should stick to CHARITABLE fund-raising...and leave political issues to those capable of taking a patriotic stand.

What role did Meto have in the US and Canadian recognition of Macedonia's name again?

Osiris, i never said that it was because of the UMD that we got name recognition in North America. Do you support the UMD opening up an office in Canberra to tackle the name issue?

Prolet,

I think its safe to say that 99 per cent of the members here do not support UMD fullstop. Are you playing some sort of a game or do you seriously have gold-fish syndrome?

[QUOTE=Prolet;40139]BigMak, There is no such thing as Vardarci and Egejci there is only Makedonci you know that. Vardarci and Egejci are only used for geographical and territorial purposes thats it.[/QUOTE]

Proletche, you never cease to amaze me.

In an ideal world, they would only be geographic identifiers, but, this is actually a serious issue that needs to be addressed and overcome.

Vangelovski, Why are you putting all your hate towards the UMD on me? You dont like the UMD thats fine, its your choice but dont pin this down on me. I asked you what the best way was to gain name recognition from Australia and you were not interested, you dont want an office opened in Canberra. The UMD are pushing for name recognition in Australia so they have my support lets see what they can do about it, to me this is an extremely important issue.

AMHRC are also pushing for name recognition so this is exactly what we need, lets hope every Mak Organization has this at the top of their agenda.

'Kevin Rudd',

just shut up now, you are starting to be embarrasing. I actually think you are two people, one of you guys is a smart arse shit stirrer, the second is an absolute dimwit. I have more intellectual discussion with my five year old daughter.

Stop your nonsense and head up UMD Australia already, write for the Australian UMD Weekly, work out your plan of attack at the Swanston Street Starbucks, and resolve the name issue - once you have worked out what you want to call us!

And stop your dodgy infatuation with the boy wonder, it really is scary.

By the way, Kev, are you an Egejec, a Vardarec, a Pirinec, a Skopian, a Northern/Democratic Macedonian, and how are things in your neck of the woods? What's the situation on the ground there? How many of you are there? What did you think of Slavo-Makedonski's speech? We should unite? United we can! We are Macedoanians.

You are a goose.

By the way, I apologise to everybody else for the above.

[QUOTE=BigMak;40140]sho me prajs budala sega, You may as well come to perth and be the ambassador with a shot gun and get it through the thick heads here in perth. I was referring to the terminology used in Perth by our communities

Meto's speech was a complete and waste of time for me, nothing new nothing old and personally I don't really care what a 70 year old may have heard or not have heard in the audience as they are not the future of the Macedonian Diaspora

Its very disappointing that the average age was 70

The young generation would have been there in droves it it had free beer and spirits together with entertainment from the local strip club

Just another UMD membership drive nothing else[/QUOTE]

The Macedonian youths were all at the "ozi serb' functions belly dancing to disgusting serbian turbo folk. Dont you know that macedonian music is boring and out of date, and artificial and fake serbian turbo folk is the future?

From my minimal experience with the Perth "macos" most of them have a self hating mind set going on.

no i dont oppose umd opening an office anywhere in the world if it helps our cause.

but i do oppose a macedonian organisation taking money from people who have vested interests in macedonia and its future.

prolet what are umds achievements to date that make you think they can achieve so much in australia.

[QUOTE=BigMak;40136]the rest were commentary based with one individual holding the mic for what seemed to be 15 minutes with a life story of when he was a little boy.[/QUOTE]

hahahahah :)

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMak View Post
the rest were commentary based with one individual holding the mic for what seemed to be 15 minutes with a life story of when he was a little boy.
hahahahah [/QUOTE]

sounds like a very macedonian thing to do was he an ofchar or goedar.

[QUOTE=osiris;40166]no i dont oppose umd opening an office anywhere in the world if it helps our cause.

but i do oppose a macedonian organisation taking money from people who have vested interests in macedonia and its future.

prolet what are umds achievements to date that make you think they can achieve so much in australia.[/QUOTE]

I agree Osiris if it helps our cause so lets see what they can do. I still havnt seen their list of achievements for 2009, i asked AMitreski to provide it however he gave me a plan of what they had in mind for 2010.

Osiris, Did you read the article in the Canberra Times that Julie posted?? I think its a good step in the right direction. Its time for questions about name recognition be asked to high profile MP's in Australia. And now that Grotius calls me Kevin Rudd i hope i can influence him on that decision. :45:

Grotius, Lets cut the bad talk, how do you see Australia recognizing our constitutional name?? Do you think opening an office in Canberra will help? Im only asking for your personal opinion nothing more.

Kev,

There is a good chance that if you head up UMD Australia, all will be well. :wink:

But let me say this, UMD have no credibility when it comes to the name issue. How on earth are they going to lobby Australia to recognise the name of the Republic of Macedonia, when they themselves have advocated to change it?

In relation to having an "office" in Canberra. Firstly, politicians are only there when Parliament sits, otherwise they can't get out of there fast enough. We can get access to them anywhere at anytime if we play things right. Australian politics are very different to US politics – the boy wonder needs to know this. In any event, as for a permanent presence in Canberra, we already have capable people who live in Canberra, that are more trustworthy and have more stable ideological backgrounds than the UMD folk. On this point, if you recall, the AMHRC has already announced they are holding a national political conference to deal with these issues. I would support a Canberra office/presence through this process and organised by committed Australian Macedonian activists rather than the walking, talking PR machine from Washington.

Kev, maybe you should show more support for your fellow citizens than some blow in who can’t tell his ‘Northern’ from his ‘Democratic’.

Also, you haven't answered my question, how has the boy wonder "United" anybody for "Macedonia's Future" on this tour?

Spolaj Ti Grotius

I never said that everybody should be ignored and the UMD is the only one who should be pushing this. Its natural that our minority in Canberra will play a large roll in this, i actually think that AMRHC will play a much larger roll then the UMD since the UMD will be there to assist as Metodija said himself. What did you think of that Canberra Times article??

Grotius, At no point did i ever loose support for our people and ive always supported those who fight for our country you know that. As for your question, well he did raise a few eye brows from what i saw He was called the young Goce Delchev remember?? LOL I think overall from what i've seen and heard its been a positive tour, i wont lie to you and say that everything is perfect because its not but we need to be pushing for name recognition we've been suffering for 20 years and like i mentioned earlier the UMD is not the lone ranger in doing this, it should be everyones priority and we need a good plan to achieve this.

You did say that Australian politics are very different to US politics what exactly did you mean by that? Im talking about the lobbying here, we need frequent meetings,constant communication,friendships like the Australian-Macedonian Group etc I agree with you that the politics are not the same and each country is different but lobbying is important to us.

Thanks for your advise

grotius i think umd is a flawed organization with dodgy backers,

but if they think they can make a positive contribution to our cause then let them try only and wish them well.

only time will tell who the umd are and what they have contributed to the macedonian cause.

Prolet, what meaningful assistance can UMD give?

Osiris, that's a fair point. But my concern is that being such a compromised organisation, and knowing who the UMD people are in Australia, their attempts at doing something, albeit in good faith, can jeopordise proper lobbying and strategies that might be put in place by other groups, such as the AMHRC. If anything, the UMD here should offer their help rather than go off on their own tangents. Remember that the AMHRC has organised a national political conference exactly on this point, in which, I am sure, a lot more credible and capable people can work together with the AMHRC. I see no reason why the UMD can't join in this effort, again, rather than doing something silly on their own. Isn't their motto "united we can" - they should live up to it.

[QUOTE]I see no reason why the UMD can't join in this effort, again, rather than doing something silly on their own. Isn't their motto "united we can" - they should live up to it.[/QUOTE]

Grotius, This is exactly what i mean and i agree with you.

[QUOTE]Prolet, what meaningful assistance can UMD give?[/QUOTE]

Phoenix, They can help with the lobbying you know that, raising awareness, letting people know about our country, that we are discriminated etc we have Swedes,Germans writing books about Macedonia and even that guy from Iceland who even made a film about Macedonia (A Name Is A Name) Im not saying that this is all because of the UMD however every little bit counts.

[QUOTE=Prolet;40217]Grotius, This is exactly what i mean and i agree with you.



Phoenix, They can help with the lobbying you know that, raising awareness, letting people know about our country, that we are discriminated etc we have Swedes,Germans writing books about Macedonia and even that guy from Iceland who even made a film about Macedonia (A Name Is A Name) Im not saying that this is all because of the UMD however every little bit counts.[/QUOTE]

Prolet what will UMD lobby for, certain prefixes, supporting the war in Afghanistan, fear campaigns that Macedonians will starve if they don't get into NATO and the EU...???