Draw to be put forward
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X86MWXAGQY&feature=related]YouTube - Makedonija 2001 - Bitkata za aracinovo Eve ja vistinata[/url]
Indeed all *Srankovisti hangers-on are traitors to the Macedonian cause.

Hoping that is UMD state you are pointing is about political demagogy only , and your criticism will have valuable results

UMD in Adelaide
 

Meto Koloski delivered a very comprehensive overview of the UMD and its achievements and aspirations. The meeting went by very well with almost all attendees relatively impressed with the delivery. I had the opportunity to raise a couple of issues of concern to the MTO. The issues that I raised were mostly concerned with UMD ideology and how it manifests itself into UMD actions. Meto made it clear that (for example) Macedonia wants to get in the EU/NATO, therefore the UMD should help it. I disagree with the blind faith in the Government. Should Greece have accepted the name of Republic of Macedonia (Skopje), I have no doubt that the UMD would have blindly supported the Macedonian Government. I stated the fundamental ideology should flow from the Diaspora, that (for example) the Diaspora does not accept the Framework Agreement as a positive development. Therefore the UMD should not applaud such actions as a sign of a progressive nation.

I also received an explanation as to how Meto arrived at the statement about renaming Macedonia as the Democratic Republic of Macedonia.

I will let you interpret the clarification when I post the Youtube link later.

Spolaj Ti Risto,

I hope everything is cleared up now, Bira pijavte li?

I look forward to watching it.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;35830]I look forward to watching it.[/QUOTE]

me too. :ostrich

Meto's Missing Opinion Piece in The Age
 

In Meto’s original flyer outlining his tour of Australia (which has been replaced), he claimed that he had written an opinion piece in The Age, a Melbourne based newspaper. Can UMD provide a copy of this “opinion piece”?

Or was the article in question actually a paid advertisement authored primarily by Igor Aleksandrov (and primarily funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney with donations from other Australian Macedonian organisations and individuals) with input from myself in response to the Greek rally in Melbourne in November 2007?

If this is the case, can UMD explain why it attempted to mislead the public and credit the advertisement to Meto as an opinion piece, when in fact it was a paid advertisement that Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski actually opposed because they felt it was “too nationalistic” to state the fact that Greece occupied southern Macedonia in 1913 and refused to put UMD’s name to the piece (a decision which I took the liberty to override) along with all the major Australian Macedonian sponsors?

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35850]In Meto’s original flyer outlining his tour of Australia (which has been replaced), he claimed that he had written an opinion piece in The Age, a Melbourne based newspaper. Can UMD provide a copy of this “opinion piece”?

Or was the article in question actually a paid advertisement authored primarily by Igor Aleksandrov (and primarily funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney with donations from other Australian Macedonian organisations and individuals) with input from myself in response to the Greek rally in Melbourne in November 2007?

If this is the case, can UMD explain why it attempted to mislead the public and credit the advertisement to Meto as an opinion piece, when in fact it was a paid advertisement that Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski actually opposed because they felt it was “too nationalistic” to state the fact that Greece occupied southern Macedonia in 1913 and refused to put UMD’s name to the piece (a decision which I took the liberty to override) along with all the major Australian Macedonian sponsors?[/QUOTE]

At uni they call this plagiarism?

UMD Defends FYROM Terminology
 

Another unbelievable defence of the Interim Accord and the FYROM terminology by UMD's self-appointed "leaders" has surfaced:


[QUOTE]If the government did not agree on FYROM in 1995, we would have been 10 years behind right now. Macedonia would still be under embargo and 20,000 people would have been without a job.

Denis Manevski, UMD Treasurer
11 March 2008
[URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MacedonianMediaMonitor/message/10536"][url]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MacedonianMediaMonitor/message/10536[/url][/URL]
[/QUOTE][URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MacedonianMediaMonitor/message/10536"][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/URL][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35857]Another unbelievable defence of the Interim Accord and the FYROM terminology by UMD's self-appointed "leaders" has surfaced:


[URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MacedonianMediaMonitor/message/10536"][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/URL][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/QUOTE]

with unemplyoyment in the Republic at 39% currently?

They call in plagiarism in the outside world too! I think there is also an aspect of self-promotion...

UMDiaspora.org, Amitreski and co., do any of you care to address this concern? In the interest of the UMD's public perception, I certainly hope so.

Part 1.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSaJIjs1N8E]YouTube - MTO UMD 1[/url]

Part 2.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jJbPJch9dM]YouTube - MTO UMD 2[/url]

RtG, Great stuff!!

There was a lot of excuse making and nonsense from Meto - it was quite difficult to follow.

I'm gonna have to listen to this a few more times, but I think Meto just reiterated his support for "Democratic Republic of Macedonia"!?!?!

RtG, is that how you interpreted it? I'll reserve final judgement after I have heard Part Two...just some preliminary thoughts here.

Skopiani
 

from that answer it looks like umd would have accepted ROM (Skopje) - the pejorative that grease likes the best. :confused1:

Part 2 is now up.

I will not comment on Meto's responses yet because I would like your opinions first.

But I will say that the Macedonian Community that hosted this event were pitiful in the moderation of the event. The attempts to quieten my dialogue was a slap in the face to all Macedonians with inquiring minds. Lets be clear, Meto was here to sell his product. If someone is selling to me, I would like to know what I am buying. The fact that I may have been understood by some as being disruptive is more a pitiful reflection on my local community's leaders than it is on me.

Meto's ramble is fairly incoherent and difficult to follow - it again appears that he was defending his speculation over "Democratic Republic of Macedonia" as the "best choice under those circumstances".

RtG - You were shut right down by Ordan (I think its him standing next to Meto) who in order to allow Meto to avoid responding to the answer you gave him, opened the floor to other questions. This is appalling.

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35908]RtG - You were shut right down by Ordan (I think its him standing next to Meto) who in order to allow Meto to avoid responding to the answer you gave him, opened the floor to other questions. This is appalling.[/QUOTE]
No, it was Steve Kostoff who did that (he was standing beside Meto).

I agree with RTG, unfortunately it was disappointing that it was not moderated appropriately. I was also silenced.
I asked Meto if the term diaspora is voice of the people, as I am one people that does not agree with negotiations , which should cease. That negotiations are indicative of compromise, that is how our flag has been changed, and that our name should not be compromised with any prefixes. I found Meto intimidating in his response and chose to leave the premise, he "spoke" to me by pointing his finger at me repeatedly in front of the audience.

delusions of grandeur
 

meto koloski "thanks to organisations like umd, the united states recoginises the republic of macedonia". wow, delusions of grandeur or what. the balls on the clown to make such a stupid claim. the US recogised ROM just around the same time umd was formed, there is no way umd had any part in that. if people look at the US complex in skopje, 15 stories underground etc. which signalled a major shift from running things from grease, then it we can see truly why the US recognised ROM. DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUER :wacko:.

[quote=Risto the Great;35909]No, it was Steve Kostoff who did that (he was standing beside Meto).[/quote]

My apologies Ordan.

So, Steve Kostoff, the one who calls us "Slav Macedonians" is now Meto's righthand man.

Preliminary assesment - deflection of answering the core of the question in subject, reduced response time allocation after a longwinded attempt at explanations/justifications of actions, appearance of inadequate allowancwes for questions/answers/rebuttals, lack of appropriate order.

Thank you RTG for posting this, thank you for standing up and asking your questions which you did very well by the way

Sadly when the camera moved to Meto, the visual and audio quality was not quite good enough, which made it hard to read Meto, I'll have to see him in person when he comes to Perth

You mentioned his talk was generally well received, so I'll assume he is a competent speaker

Now my take on what I could make out from his answer to you

He is diplomatic in his language and tone (which wasn't all that clear due to the Audio quality), he said a lot to try and explain himself, which can mean he was on the defensive with you, or that he really wanted to be open as much as possible. Now his explanations could be interpreted in many ways depending on your view of the man himself, interpretation of words and events can be a real bitch, so I’m going to use the old wait and see approach

I think Meto is trying his best, but the community is not 100% behind him as we know

I believe he is a good man, but for many that may not be enough. Many people I know want someone who will say loud and clear that we do not want the name negotiations with Greece to continue, he at this time is not delivering this message as I understand it

I’m still open to UMD. I feel some adjustments need to be made in its policy, but I do think the vehicle or framework that is UMD is a good one. It has established itself a seemingly vast network of important contacts because of hard work done over many years, and this [b]should not be wasted[/b]

The organization should always seek further input and development of it’s policies, you can always improve

Plagiarism?
 

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;35850]In Meto’s original flyer outlining his tour of Australia (which has been replaced), he claimed that he had written an opinion piece in The Age, a Melbourne based newspaper. Can UMD provide a copy of this “opinion piece”?

Or was the article in question actually a paid advertisement authored primarily by Igor Aleksandrov (and primarily funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney with donations from other Australian Macedonian organisations and individuals) with input from myself in response to the Greek rally in Melbourne in November 2007?

If this is the case, can UMD explain why it attempted to mislead the public and credit the advertisement to Meto as an opinion piece, when in fact it was a paid advertisement that Meto Koloski and Aleksandar Mitrevski actually opposed because they felt it was “too nationalistic” to state the fact that Greece occupied southern Macedonia in 1913 and refused to put UMD’s name to the piece (a decision which I took the liberty to override) along with all the major Australian Macedonian sponsors?[/QUOTE]

Mr. Vangelovski, are you referring to The Australian advertisement? We suggest you get your facts straight before spreading outright lies and false allegations about UMD. UMD has never plagiarized anything, so your assertions are quite serious offenses and slander.

UMD, the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney, the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia, and other organizations co-sponsored an advertisement in May 2007, not November. The advertisement was published in The Australian the same day of former Greek Prime Minister Karamanlis' visit to Australia, and not in response to some Melbourne Greek rally.

The advertisement was originally initiated by UMD, and primarily championed by Ljupco Stankovski of the Australian Macedonian Weekly, a very strong supporter and member of UMD. It was Mr. Stankovski that contacted the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney to join UMD in this initiative, and MOCS paid half of the funds needed for the advertisement. Whereas, Mr. Stankovski raised the other half through the various other organizations who donated and some individuals including himself. UMD authored/drafted the original text, and the various organizations sponsoring the advertisement had additions, and the final text was composed, which was used for the advertisement (the drafting committee did an excellent job). It was agreed upon by all participating sponsoring organizations. UMD never refused to put its name on the advertisement and you make false claims.

Here is something that may peak your interest about the advertisement written by the Pan-Macedonian Federation of Australia against UMD:

[url]http://modern-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html[/url]

On the same day of the advertisement, UMD issued a press release as well regarding the visit of Prime Minister Karamanalis, of which Mr. Vangelovski was the spokesperson for:

[url]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/210/1/[/url]

Shame that there was not more time allowed for Risto's questions/discussions... I am sure there will be plenty of opportunity in Melbourne and Sydney to put some things to rest.

Ask the hard questions, every doubt that people in the community have about UMD should be explored so everyone can base their opinions straight from the horses mouth.

Thank you Blackcactus and Risto the Great!

The forum in Adelaide was an excellent opportunity to engage on many topics. We have to stress though there definitely was no pointing of fingers at anyone, just to make that clear. Many individuals had the opportunity to ask questions and really have a dialogue. After the event, individuals were able to discuss with Meto Koloski further on the issues for about an hour after the event ended.

The community was able to learn about UMD, and equally important, the UMD was able to learn about the community of Adelaide and South Australia. The community, and particularly the youth, are hurting in this community. All are very dedicated, all are hard-working, all believe in the Macedonian cause. But they are villified on a regular basis by racist and absurd comments by the Premier of South Australia. This discrimination resignates not just on a political level, but even in education and healthcare, as one elderly lady mentioned at the forum.

The community in Adelaide and South Australia has a lot of potential, and we see a very bright future for the community, especially the young generation. UMD held a discussion with the youth today in Adelaide, and we discussed ways for the youth to get more involved in the community.

Stay tuned for more news on the situation with the Premier of South Australia. We are happy to learn that AMHRC are assisting the Macedonian Community of Adelaide and South Australia on this matter. UMD is here to assist as much as we can, and together, United, We Can and will succeed. Premier Rann must formally apologize to our community in South Australia.

Thanks Meto, I await Vangelovski's response.

[QUOTE="UMDiaspora.org"].........Ljupco Stankovski of the Australian Macedonian Weekly, a very strong supporter and member of UMD.[/QUOTE]
That's good to know. Equally good would be to know if the AMW would publish any articles that go contrary to UMD's assertions.

Risto the Great, thank you very much for arranging this and taking the time to have them put up on youtube. Also, thank you for your uncompromising and professional representation of the Macedonian Truth Organisation.

Here is what I have noticed so far:

- Between 1.05 and 1.25 RtG is told to basically hurry up and get to the question, by, none other than Steve Kostoff, the man who distinguishes himself from Greeks by declaring as a Slav Macedonian. This 'Slav' Kostoff saw it fit to make a mini-drama by speaking in a clearly defensive manner. Meto, did you come out all the way to Australia so that concerned Macedonians can be told to hurry up and get to the question? How pathetic.

- At 2.36 Meto says that the Macedonian government agreed to Macedonia-Skopje. What evidence is there to corroborate this, Meto?

- From about 3.30 onwards Meto goes on this rant about how he doesn't engage in public forums on the internet (when he clearly does here) and for the next minute, diverts the response to a defence of his position with the claim that people are twisting his words. Who is twisting your words when you said you find the 'democratic' prefix "acceptable" Meto? And then he asks RtG what he thinks of the suggested prefixes of 'democratic' and 'independent' (!?!?)

- From around 4.40 onwards, Meto clearly says the following: "[B]I said that the Diaspora may take (?), may accept the name Democratic Republic of Macedonia, to end, the former yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which we all know is ridiculous. And 'democratic', in the end, probably is not so bad (?), but only and I stress this only for NATO, EU and United Nation........[/B]" - This statement seems to endorse what he said in the ZMR interview, but then, Meto goes on to say that he made this statement in the early days of activism at a time when the UMD weren't taken seriously! Then he goes back to endorsing the 'democratic' prefix (again) saying that, on the other hand, they will not accept geographic definers, then he goes on to say that "thanks to oganisations like the UMD" the USA recognizes Macedonia. I'm sorry, what exactly was UMD's role in the USA's recognition of Macedonia? The USA recognized Macedonia to silence Macedonian patriotism and put a halt to the referendum that was against territorial divisions taking place. Back to the 'democratic' prefix, at one point Meto even echoes his twin's (TajnataKniga) sentiment by stating that Macedonia is a democratic country afterall!!

Then Meto goes on to say how, with regard to the framewok agreement, he believes it is against Macedonia's constitution, which is where RtG begins to deliver an assertive and defining message, making it clear that, NO, the Macedonian Diaspora does not accept this agreement that UMD seemingly have in the past, and they do not accept being called 'democratic' Macedonians. And there is Kostoff cutting off RtG again. Pathetic.

RtG, you spoke well, concise and true, Meto, you seemed uneasy while answering the questions, and you took quite some time in doing so. I didn't see Kostoff rushing you to answer though.

-----------------------

My observation, simple. The UMD are prepared to accept a name other than (Republic of) Macedonia, in this case 'democratic', when we sit at the international table of nations. It simply appears that the 'democratic' prefix and the fact that we may have to change our name and lose our dignitiy to appease Greek racists are not 'as important' issues as entering the EU for them. Da vi e stram.

Meto's idea of a Diaspora organisation is to secure points with the Macedonian government, regardless of who is in power, as opposed to representing the Diaspora's view to the Macedonian government, even when they do not align.

Is Steve Kostov related to Hari Kostov?? I didnt get the point why Risto was cut off he should have the time to give a proper statement and then ask the questions. I'll let Risto decide how he felt at the time.

Either way Spolaj Ti Risto for the footage.

[QUOTE="Prolet"]I didnt get the point why Risto was cut off he should have the time to give a proper statement and then ask the questions[/QUOTE]
Shh, you never know who's watching Prolet....

SOM, A sto misles Grcine sto pravat?? Identitetine kako na nashite chlenovi im gi objavuvaja?? Jas ne velam da se zatvorime samo da pazime sto zborvame tuka, oti drugite ne snimat mozi i asio gleda od kaj znajme?

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;35930]Mr. Vangelovski, are you referring to [b]The Australian[/b] advertisement? We suggest you get your facts straight before spreading outright lies and false allegations about UMD. UMD has never plagiarized anything, so your assertions are quite serious offenses and slander.[/QUOTE]

UMDiaspora,

The advertisement Vangelovski is referring to was published in [B]The Age[/B] (the same paper that Meto Kolovski is supposed to have published an opinion piece in) and the [b]Sydney Morning Herald[/b] simultaneously, by the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia. The only input from UMD was by Tom Vangelovski, as the then Director of UMD's Australian Operations. I asked him if the UMD would endorse the advertisement after I had already written and sent it to him. Prior to that, Tom helped me with some research and suggestions in the drafting process, in his personal capacity. Everything Vangelovski has said about the advertisement in [b]The Age[/b] is fundamentally true.

But let's not get side-tracked here. The UMD flyer that has sparked this thread states that Meto Koloski (not UMD) has had an opinion piece (not an advertisement) published in The Age (not The Australian). Can you please refer us to that opinion piece by Meto Koloski?

The Advertiser - Rann's speech outrages Macedonians
 

[url]http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/ranns-speech-outrages-macedonians/story-fn2sdwup-1225827612230[/url]

[QUOTE]PREMIER Mike Rann has sparked an international diplomatic furore by accusing Macedonia of stealing Greek culture and its leader, Gjorge Ivanov, of "stirring up trouble in the most dangerous way".

A videotape of a speech given by the Premier at a the Dimitria Greek festival in the western suburbs in November has sparked outrage across the globe.

Washington-based United Macedonian Diaspora president Metodija Koloski flew to Adelaide for a confidential meeting with Multicultural Affairs Minister Michael Atkinson yesterday and delivered a protest letter addressed to Mr Rann.

In the controversial speech, Mr Rann affirms his commitment to Adelaide's Greek voters and promises his Government will "remain firm and unswerving in our support for your cause".

"It is important because no one is entitled to steal another nation's history or culture," Mr Rann said.

"We have a leader in Mr Ivanov who is stirring up trouble in the most dangerous way."

Mr Koloski yesterday told The Advertiser that his people had been "slandered" and demanded an unconditional apology.

Yesterday, Mr Rann said he would not be "silenced or muzzled" and would "continue to speak out on issues I believe in".[/QUOTE]

Rann remains resolute on this matter. We will test his resolve.

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;35983][url]http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/in-depth/ranns-speech-outrages-macedonians/story-fn2sdwup-1225827612230[/url][/QUOTE]

This is my first post, and I would have liked it to have been more constructive, but I smell a rat.

As someone who has been sitting back and watching this forum and Maknews as well for quite sometime, I have to say that the timing of the community's outrage smells too manufactured.

I mean, Rann's speech happens in December, but the story doesn't come out until UMD just happend to be in Adelaide...please! Was this a strategic ploy to give UMD street cred before its national tour?

Also, what a toothless response......all you did was steel the Greek support for Rann. His response was a big F#ck Off to UMD's request for an apology!!!

UMD you had a chance to engage with others on the landscape here in Australia, but you failed to produce nothing but self-gratifying dribble!
Had you been serious you would have engaed with others in the community. For example, had you referred the Adelaide advertiser to AMHRC's proposed legal action, wouldn't that have been a better outcome for the community? Your organisation's international front plus on the ground action? What an error in judgement on your behalf! There's nothing united about UMD.

And to think, all this time I though that a UMD membership would be a good investment in our community in Australia. How wrong I was - you sold me a dummy but now I see clearly, never judge a book by its cover.

[quote=aleksandrov;35975]UMDiaspora,

Would you care to ask Mr Stankovski to corroborate your story? Who was on this UMD drafting committee you speak of? Do you have records of the original draft? Do you have any records of correspondence suggesting that the UMD initiated it (I acknowledge that the UMD initiated an earlier advertisement in the Australian, also funded by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney, but I don't think you want me to get into the difference between the UMD's first draft and what was ultimately published, contrary to the American UMD's wishes)? Could you post a copy of the advertisement here, given that it makes it clear who published and personally "authorized" it?

The advertisement in question was published in The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald simultaneously, by the Association of Macedonian Communities in Australia. More than half of the cost was paid by the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney. The rest was paid by funds raised on behalf of our Association by Ljupco Stankovski from the Australian Macedonian Weekly in Melbourne, from other organizations and businesses that ENDORSED the advertisement. The UMD did not contribute a cent. The only input from UMD was by Tom Vangelovski, as the then Director of Australian Operations. I asked him if the UMD would endorse the advertisement after I had already written and sent it to him. Prior to that, Tom helped me with some research and suggestions in the drafting process, in his personal capacity.

The advertisement in The Age was DEFINITELY not initiated by UMD and I received no input whatsoever for the text from any other member of UMD but Tom Vangelovski. Unless you consider telling Tom Vangelovski that it was too nationalistic for UMD to endorse it an input.

But let's not get side-tracked here. The UMD flyer that has sparked this thread states that Meto Koloski has had an opinion piece published in The Age. Can you please refer us to that opinion piece by Meto Koloski?[/quote]

I don't really have much more to add than the points raised here by Aleksandrov.

I can only reiterate what Aleksandrov said, the issue is Meto's supposed opinion piece in the Age.

Back to the top. Does anyone from UMD want to comment on this one? Using scaremongering to defend the FYROM terminology?

Thanks for the run down and quotes SoM. It appears we have yet another UMD endorsement of "Democratic Republic of Macedonia". I think by the time Meto's travelling circus is over, we'll have a few more.

Maslinka, welcome.
You made some very controversial statements in relation to the Rann/UMD matter that I can't support. I am of the understanding that a pitiful Government Grant was up for grabs and our silly little community in Adelaide was awaiting the outcome of that before expressing their disgust. The grant never apparently eventuated and the timing of an appropriate response was spectacularly deficient.

This is my understanding of the matter and a clear expression of my disgust in the direction it more appropriately should be focused. Further, the fact that Meto was in Adelaide at the time the issue escalated was nothing more than an excellent opportunity to amplify the significance of this matter. I have no problem with the UMD expressing their discontent. I have many more problems with the Adelaide community wasting their time on a matter of such significance.

Maslinka
Welcome to the MTO!
It's easy to see have you have come up with those conclusions, particularly if you have been following some of the threads.

Didn't this clown Rann just get exposed for having an affair behind his wfe's back? We should exploit him once again...