Do his article's constitute as gossip, or is it only when you are relaying his words they should be viewed as gospel?

You have already contradicted yourself. Why was it "suprising" to find that Jews are nice people? Are you a victim of the same stereotype you accuse others of having?

Why is it "suprising" that a Macedonian has had unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians? What is your definition of suprising? Or is it something fluid that you can mould as you see fit?

For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every turn. Are you his boyfriend? Or am I being anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews can be gay?

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25362]Do his article's constitute as gossip, or is it only when you are relaying his words they should be viewed as gospel?

You have already contradicted yourself. Why was it "suprising" to find that Jews are nice people? Are you a victim of the same stereotype you accuse others of having?

Why is it "suprising" that a Macedonian has had unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians? What is your definition of suprising? Or is it something fluid that you can mould as you see fit?

For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every turn. Are you his boyfriend? Or am I being anti-semitic for suggesting that Jews can be gay?[/QUOTE]

Zdravo, SoM,

Can you imagine, I was convinced that we have already overcome the Sam Vaknin phase of our communication! What a stupid optimist! Then, out of blue, I received the awaking blow: the undecent message of yours from yesterday. OK, it is your choice and it displays your level, despite all green square decorations on your chest. And I suppose S.V. would be very flattered if he new how an influential person he was - so influential that even a mentioning of his name is enough to psychologicaly destabilize a strong community like the Macedonian Truth Forum . Any way, as for myself, I am not in the mood to give him that pleasure. That is why I will pretend as if this incident did not happened, and will try to reasonable answer your last remarks:

1-When I used the word “gossip” I was only refering Risto’s statement that Sam Vaknin is in
a position advising the Macedonian Government. It is YOUR CONSTRUCTION that with
the word “gossip” I was refering S.V.s’ ARTICLES. I did not say and did not mean that.

2-Your objections about me being “surprised” by Jankovska’s statement that Jews are nice
people is even more strange than the one about the “gossip”. When you don’t have
personal experience about something (for instance about the ethnic characteristics of the
Jewish people), then your knowledge about that something is purely theoretic and a sum
of informations collected by hearing or reading. In the case of Jews, the information I
have had (before the historic speech of Jankovska) was even poorer, because it consisted
only of stereotypes I already mentioned. It does not neccessarily mean that (as you imply)
I was victim of these stereotypes. It is not the case because, simply,
(1) I am aware that I do not have reliable information on the subject (that all I
know about Jews is a bunch of stereotypes), and (2), my basic principle is to NOT classify
people (especially ethnicities) as “good” or “bad” “by nature”, but rather as a result of
historical and social “conditioning”.

And now (according to you) the “key” question: if we assume that all above is true,
isn’t that a contradiction - the fact that I was “pleasantly surprised”
by Jankovska’s statement that Jews are nice people? Of course it is not! How comme?
Very simple. The awareness that my information about the Jews is not very reliable,
does not prevent the brain to make some expectations and presumptions about what could
be the truth. These expectations are based on what you have as information, regardless of
your consciousness that this information is not very reliable. It is the physiology of the
brain: it always has to have an idea of everything, and that idea is based on the available
information. In the case with the Jews, the ifornmation I had on disposal (the stereotypes)
was not a favorable one, and it was quite normal for me to be surprised when that what I
have heard from Jankovska was, not only different, but in extreme opposite to the
information I had on disposal and, thus, to my normal expectations. For me, the important
fact in this story is not not what kind of expectations I hed (based on the available
information, the stereotypes), but that I was POSITIVELY surprised, which is (I guess)
an attitude of a positive personality.

3-One more odd question you post is the one about me being surprprised with Jankovska’s
unpleasant experiences with other Macedonians in the diaspora. Excouse me, but I am a
Macedonian, living in Macedonia, thinking I know Macedonians – and my opinion on
Macedonians is not close to that I’v heard from Jankovska. What is even worse is that I
can not say that she is lieing. I believe her and that means that I learned from her an
UNPLEASANT NEWS about us Macedonians – and that is why it was an UNPLEA-
SANT SURPRISE for me. Can you understand this?

I don’t know if this time I was successful in my explanations on the 3 issues above,
but it is realy beyond my abilities to be more clear than this.

4-You say: “For someone who claims not to be him, you sure do support Shmuel at every
turn”. I don’t know if you have heard about the basic democratic principle that :
Everybody is innocent, until proven guilty ! And in this thread here I did still not
heared nothing else but labelings and outbursts of hate towards Vaknin. May be you know
why you hate him, and may be you have every right for that, but for me that is not enough
to “join the club”, just for the sake of being with the tribe. I am not that type person. I need
reasons and explanations. It may happen that I would even agree with your argumentation
against Vaknin, but I would first have to hear it. Till now I did not hear any concrete
accusations, just outbursts of anger. If you return a few pages back in this thread, you will
see that you are angry with me just because I call him Mr. Vaknin and because I talled you
that he is making a great contribution in the health reform process (can you deny that?)
and because I said that he is not one of the advisers of the government as you are
asserting. In one word, you are upset just because what I said I know about S.V. is not
something negative and because I did not found any reason to attack him, as you expected
I should. And so, having “all that” in mind, for you the only logical conclusion is that that
kind of “behaviour” of mine could mean that either Pulja is Vaknin himself, or is he
(guess what!) Vaknin’s boyfriend! Well, very witty, I must admit. But, having in mind the
seriousness of the discussion (and of your accusations), it is very shallow and unfair. I
admit that I expected much more from a Soldier of Macedon.

President Ivanov meets with Jews of Macedonian descent

Friday, 23 October 2009

President Gjorge Ivanov met yesterday with representatives of Jews of Macedonian descent, media reports from Jerusalem.

Meeting participants stressed that the Jewish Community in Macedonia is an indispensable part of the country's society, as well as a bridge that brings together and enhances the already friendly bilateral relations.

Avi Kozma, Rabbi of the Jewish Community Macedonia, thanked President Ivanov for his visit to Israel.

"It is quite significant that the president is here in Jerusalem, the holy country, the holy city, meeting with Israeli officials and leaders of the Jewish people. This is something that mustn't be forgotten, whereas Macedonia and its leaders should continue to build relations with Israel", said Rabbi Kozma.

Construction of the Holocaust Memorial Center in Skopje is a link in the chain that ties the rich Macedonian-Jewish heritage there, which was destroyed on March 11, 1943.

"This represents a very important symbol, but the future must be further built", added the Rabbi.

Rashel Drumer Levi, who was born in Skopje and lives in Israel, says that Macedonian emigrants have double citizenship.

"We are Israelis and Macedonians. The two national are very close and similar by their traits. The most important thing is that Macedonians were one of the very few nations who showed kindness to Jews during the Holocaust. Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians", she added.

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/8642/1/[/url]

Shmuel Vaknin, take note:

[B][I]Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians[/I][/B]

[QUOTE="Gj. Pulevski"]What a stupid optimist![/QUOTE]
Self-criticism is healthy, one step at a time brate, you'll get there.
[QUOTE]And I suppose S.V. would be very flattered if he new how an influential person he was - so influential that even a mentioning of his name is enough to psichologicaly destabilize a strong community like the Macedonian Truth Forum .[/QUOTE]
Hehehe, you're kidding, right? The only one that is psychologically destabilised is yourself. Why don't you ask Shmuel if he found members of our forum so influental that he felt compelled to write a piece of garbage that YOU brought into this forum within the first few posts you made? The man writes lies about my people, what would you have me do, nothing? Did I not denounce anti-Semitic views on this forum? Were not my (and another administrator's) statements significant enough to warrant the display of the other side of the coin?

You come here, to our forum, with your accusations and trash articles written by that moron, and expect what, respect? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings dete, and I feel sorry for you that you condone trash articles about Macedonians written by that moron.
[QUOTE]I don’t know if this time I was successful in my explanations on the 3 issues above, but it is realy beyond my abilities to be more clear than this.[/QUOTE]
To be "suprised" means you already had a pre-conceived notion about the Jews, hence, you were a victim of the same stereotpying. Otherwise, why the "suprise", because there are good Jewish people out there, that is your "suprise"? Stop trying to play with words, you're all over the place, if you don't know what you're on about I suggest you think before you write.
[QUOTE]In one word, you are upset just because what I said I know about S.V. is not something negative and because [B]I did not found any reason to attack him[/B][/QUOTE]
He wrote a trash article about Macedonians and this forum in particular, based on the opinion of a few individuals. You posted that trash article here. The fact that you don't find the words of Vaknin as irresponsible and inflated garbage, that you turn a blind eye to the rest of what he has said against Macedonian people, that you come here and promote his garbage against the Macedonian people, says alot about you starokraec, kizni sho si i ti.

Mr Shmuel Puleski, you didn't find any reason to attack him because you are him.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25450]Shmuel Vaknin, take note:

[B][I]Jews in Macedonia suffered from the Bulgarian fascists, not the Macedonians[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

Thats right SOM,the Jews know the real story we dont need to tell them.

[QUOTE=Gj. Puleski;25166]That is the right word! I would even be more radical: all evil comes from the destructive social sistem we all (Macedonians, Greeks, Jews ...) live in : the capitalistic sistem! That is what we (all) should fight against (or, better: for a more human society), not people against people!:thumbup1:[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say all evil. So i assume you are a communist?

I am glad Macedonia is establishing greater ties with Israel. It clearly has a strategy when you see that it is getting close to the US/Turkish/Israeli alliance.

Save the Date - UMD Global Conference June 2010 - Toronto
 

[B]UMD Global Conference 2010
Join us in Toronto![/B]

UMD is excited to announce that the Second Annual UMD Global Conference will be held at the 4-Star/4-Diamond [URL="http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=271"]Sheraton City Centre Hotel[/URL] in downtown Toronto from June 3-5, 2010. We are planning quite an exciting program for all conference participants. The First Annual UMD Global Conference drew guests from 14 different countries.

Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.

View Video Highlights from the First Annual UMD Global Conference, by clicking [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RedVZlquu3U&feature=channel_page]YouTube - Interview with US Ambassador to Macedonia Philip Reeker During UMD Global Conference[/url].

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25454]

The only one that is psychologically destabilised is yourself. Why don't you ask Shmuel if he found members of our forum so influental that he felt compelled to write a piece of garbage that YOU brought into this forum within the first few posts you made? The man writes lies about my people, what would you have me do, nothing?

You come here, to our forum, with your accusations and trash articles written by that moron, and expect what, respect? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings dete, and I feel sorry for you that you condone trash articles about Macedonians written by that moron.[/QUOTE]


The most controverse event of last couple of days in Macedonia is the statement of the former president Kiro Gligorov for a greek newspaper that we Macedonians are of Slavic origin, and that we have no connection to the ancient Macedonians and the Alexandar the Great. As expected, people here are sharply devided in their reactions. Some support him, other (the majority) strongly disagree. Those who do not agree with him, they do not just disagree – they are using all possible negative words in order to disqualify and psychologically lynch the old man. I disagree with him too, but I don’t hate him and I don’t feel that I am obliged to swear or use all imaginable negative words in order to humiliate Gligorov – just because he “deared” to express an opinion which is opposite to mine. If we truly accept the basic democratic principle of the freedom of speech, than we are obliged to an elementary respect to the human rights of our opponents. And one of the elementary human rigts is the right to express your opinion without fear that you’ll be lynched with labels, disqualifications (moron, Shmuel etc.) and outbursts of hatred, instead of being demanted by arguments. In short, we should have a minimum human respect towards our opponents and even care for their dignity. When we try to win the battle by psychological means (screaming at the oponent, labeling him, humiliating, degrading and in other ways intimidating him), then it shows not only our lack of democratic culture, but also indicates personal weakness, lack of self-confidence and lack of arguments. Don’t you agree with me?

[QUOTE=Gj. Puleski;25718]The most controverse event of last couple of days in Macedonia is the statement of the former president Kiro Gligorov for a greek newspaper that we Macedonians are of Slavic origin, and that we have no connection to the ancient Macedonians and the Alexandar the Great. As expected, people here are sharply devided in their reactions. Some support him, other (the majority) strongly disagree. Those who do not agree with him, they do not just disagree – they are using all possible negative words in order to disqualify and psychologically lynch the old man. I disagree with him too, but I don’t hate him and I don’t feel that I am obliged to swear or use all imaginable negative words in order to humiliate Gligorov – just because he “deared” to express an opinion which is opposite to mine. If we truly accept the basic democratic principle of the freedom of speech, than we are obliged to an elementary respect to the human rights of our opponents. And one of the elementary human rigts is the right to express your opinion without fear that you’ll be lynched with labels, disqualifications (moron, Shmuel etc.) and outbursts of hatred, instead of being demanted by arguments. In short, we should have a minimum human respect towards our opponents and even care for their dignity. When we try to win the battle by psychological means (screaming at the oponent, labeling him, humiliating, degrading and in other ways intimidating him), then it shows not only our lack of democratic culture, but also indicates personal weakness, lack of self-confidence and lack of arguments. Don’t you agree with me?[/QUOTE]
last couple of days? Is it Feb 1992 where you are?

UMD Canada Holds Successful Gala Banquet; Honors Dimitras
 

Over 350 Canadian-Macedonians gathered at the St. Clement Macedonian Orthodox Cathedral Banquet Hall for the 1st United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) Gala Banquet in Toronto. Proceeds from the event will go towards funding UMD Canadian Operations and the establishment of three UMD Macedonian Heritage Scholarships for Canadian-Macedonian students. At the banquet, UMD honored Greek Helsinki Monitor Founder and Executive Director Dr. Panayote Dimitras in recognition and appreciation of his lifelong dedication to civil and minority rights in Greece.

Read full PR by clicking here: [url]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/439/1/[/url]

[QUOTE=Bij;25719]
last couple of days? Is it Feb 1992 where you are?[/QUOTE]

He gave simmilar statement these days - again.

[QUOTE=Bij;25719]last couple of days? Is it Feb 1992 where you are?[/QUOTE]

Here some information about hes newest statement from Okt.26.2009


Глигоров за грчка „Прото тема“: Ние сме Словени
„Ние сме Словени дојдени во шести век и немаме никаква врска со александровата цивилизација“.
И 17 години по изјавата во Тирана првиот македонски претседател стои на истиот став. Киро Глигоров во интервју за грчкиот весник “Прото тема“ вели дека и сега верува во истото. За него е смешно што некои македонски историчари тврдат дека ние овде сме доселени 2000 години пред Александар Македонски.

- Разговарав со еден мој пријател историчар дека вака како што сме тргнале ќе излеземе директни потомци на Адам и Ева, а рајот ќе биде македонска сопственост, вели Глигоров.

Првиот македонски претседател, во Грција е еден од поомилените македонски политичари. Токму затоа грчкиот весник се заинтересира за неговите ставови околу проблемот со името и промената на власта во Грција.


- Мило ми е што победи Пасок на изборите, бидејќи припаѓаме на исто идеолошко движење. Јас сум песимист за можно решение на проблемот со името, бидејќи дознав дека и новата грчка влада говори за “црвени линии“ од кои не може да отстапи, вели Глигоров.

Глигоров додава дека и двете земји, и Македонија и Грција мора да направат отстапки за да се дојде до решение. Тоа е од особена важност бидејќи се работи за 2 соседни земји – вели 92 годишниот Глигоров за грчкиот весник. 26.10.2009, 16:30

University of Utah Issues Statement Re: Macedonian Conference
 

[url]http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=102609-1[/url]

Statement Regarding Seventh Macedonian-North American Conference on Macedonian Studies

As a premier research institution, the University of Utah is a strong supporter of rigorous academic exploration and the freedom to engage in that exploration. The "Seventh Macedonian-North American Conference on Macedonian Studies" offers an opportunity for scholars from around the world to examine cultural, literary and linguistic topics relevant to a broad spectrum of inquiry. We welcome thoughtful, reasoned and well-researched perspectives that add light and knowledge to the global discussion on these topics.

The University of Utah supports the intensive research and academic pursuits of its professors, and endorses all intellectual inquiry that seeks to enhance our understanding of the world and our place in it.

The mission of the University of Utah is to serve the people of Utah and the world through the discovery, creation and application of knowledge; through the dissemination of knowledge by teaching, publication, artistic presentation and technology transfer; and through community engagement. As a preeminent research and teaching university with national and global reach, the university cultivates an academic environment in which the highest standards of intellectual integrity and scholarship are practiced. We zealously preserve academic freedom, promote diversity and equal opportunity, and respect individual beliefs. We advance rigorous interdisciplinary inquiry, international involvement, and social responsibility.

How about a link, champ?

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;25751]How about a link, champ?[/QUOTE]

Go on Google and write in cyrylic

Глигоров, Прото тема

then search. That is the link.

Hi is ex president “old senile” man
 

[QUOTE=Gj. Puleski;25739]Here some information about hes newest statement from Okt.26.2009


Глигоров за грчка „Прото тема“: Ние сме Словени
„Ние сме Словени дојдени во шести век и немаме никаква врска со александровата цивилизација“.
И 17 години по изјавата во Тирана првиот македонски претседател стои на истиот став. Киро Глигоров во интервју за грчкиот весник “Прото тема“ вели дека и сега верува во истото. За него е смешно што некои македонски историчари тврдат дека ние овде сме доселени 2000 години пред Александар Македонски.


- Разговарав со еден мој пријател историчар дека вака како што сме тргнале ќе излеземе директни потомци на Адам и Ева, а рајот ќе биде македонска сопственост, вели Глигоров.

Првиот македонски претседател, во Грција е еден од поомилените македонски политичари. Токму затоа грчкиот весник се заинтересира за неговите ставови околу проблемот со името и промената на власта во Грција.


- Мило ми е што победи Пасок на изборите, бидејќи припаѓаме на исто идеолошко движење. Јас сум песимист за можно решение на проблемот со името, бидејќи дознав дека и новата грчка влада говори за “црвени линии“ од кои не може да отстапи, вели Глигоров.

Глигоров додава дека и двете земји, и Македонија и Грција мора да направат отстапки за да се дојде до решение. Тоа е од особена важност бидејќи се работи за 2 соседни земји – вели 92 годишниот Глигоров за грчкиот весник. 26.10.2009, 16:30[/QUOTE]

Maube he have to cnahe his na,e to " kuro" .

It is my chosen name for my country, new born after all those years .

We can't react on Greeks duplomatcy trick- and use old man as "silo" bait.

[QUOTE=Gj. Puleski;25755]Go on Google and write in cyrylic

Глигоров, Прото тема

then search. That is the link.[/QUOTE]
Next time have the courtesy to post the link to the article so people don't have to search on google for it.

Happy 5th Birthday United Macedonian Diaspora
 

[b]Happy 5th Birthday United Macedonian Diaspora[/b]
[url]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/440/1/[/url]

Today is the 5th Anniversary of the United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD)! In such a short period of time, UMD has become the leading global grassroots non-governmental organization (NGO) promoting the interests of Macedonians worldwide. UMD’s strong commitment to promoting these interests is attested to by its achievements. [url=http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/440/1/][b]...read more[/b][/url]

happy birthday to them! :clap: now someone point me in the direction of the free booze!

I would say they have made significant progress over the last 5 years.
The last 12 months has seen them scrutinised far more than ever before. I think the scrutiny has been good for them.

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;25743]As a preeminent research and teaching university with national and global reach, the university cultivates an academic environment in which the highest standards of intellectual integrity and scholarship are practiced. We zealously preserve academic freedom, promote diversity and equal opportunity, and respect individual beliefs. We advance rigorous interdisciplinary inquiry, international involvement, and social responsibility.[/QUOTE]

I wonder how many higher learning institutions really adhere to noble beliefs such as this.

The initiative sounds interesting.

So long as they survive, it will only make them stronger in the long run. Well done UMD, stay on the straight path and live up to your slogans, you have the capacity and the will, serve the Macedonian people well.

thanks
 

Thanks everyone! On to the next 5 years...

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;25788]Thanks everyone! On to the next 5 years...[/QUOTE]


That's the spirit!

Happy Birthday!

Happy Birthday UMD.

Question???
 

Are you a member of the United Macedonian Diaspora?

When you join UMD or donate you make a difference every day by providing the necessary resources to help Macedonians meet their continuing challenges. United, We Can!

To become a member, click [URL="http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaID=137419"]HERE[/URL].

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;26029]Are you a member of the United Macedonian Diaspora?

When you join UMD or donate you make a difference every day by providing the necessary resources to help Macedonians meet their continuing challenges. United, We Can!

To become a member, click [URL="http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaID=137419"]HERE[/URL].[/QUOTE]
Please tell me if I can get a UMD credit card in OZ.

Unfortunately, not yet as we cannot locate an affinity program in Australia. Does anyone know of credit card affinity programs in Australia?

[QUOTE=UMDiaspora.org;26094]Unfortunately, not yet as we cannot locate an affinity program in Australia. Does anyone know of credit card affinity programs in Australia?[/QUOTE]
Surely RISTO The Great has contacts, you should ask him.
But if not get the bloody thing here quick.

what about the uk?

ZAS, haven't you got contacts, you talk as if you've been in the game for years, make some moves player.

More than just a name
 

Letter to the Editor by UMD President Metodija A. Koloski in Canada's Foreign Policy Newspaper Embassy.

[url]http://www.embassymag.ca/mobile/story/letter3-10-28-2009[/url]

Mistake from the newspaper: the letter states the population of Greece is fully 50 times larger than Macedonia; it should state 5.

UMD Commemorates 5th Anniversary of U.S. Recognition of Macedonia's Rightful Name
 

The United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) commemorates today the fifth anniversary of United States recognition of Macedonia's constitutional name.

Read full PR: [url]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/442/1/[/url]

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;26157]make some moves player.[/QUOTE]
Sorry SoM, you spelled it wrong .... it is "playa".

In all seriousness, anyone who can help out with this, please contact me via PM.
I've been dealing with the banks here in AU but UMD just isn't big enough yet for them. That's not to say we won't keep pushing it, but all help is much appreciated and needed

Hey rogi wats up this is a cool forum.

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;26157]ZAS, haven't you got contacts, you talk as if you've been in the game for years, make some moves player.[/QUOTE]

Sorry SOM, not my area, what GAME are you talking about????
You have me confused.

I'm a member but in all seriousness UMD for me is a US-organisation it really doesn't do much for people in WA (WESTERN AUSTRALIA)