In 1960 tensions rose between Greece and Yugoslavia because propagandists from SFRM roamed Greek Macedonia and were causing unrest. Greek macedonian newspapers were asking the goverment not to allow them entry because people were saying that they will kill them.Greece protested to Tito and he said these are Kolisevskis blshit. But Greek historians who the last years were given access to Yugoslavias archives found that Tito was encouraging Kolisevski. MANY TIMES Greece protested for the signs SFR Makedonija in front of Yugoslavian delegations in REGIONAL summits. Roqi boy i am reading everyday a newspaper called "MAKEDONIA". It first circulated in Thessaloniki at 1903...

[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3267]Greece does not recognise the Macedonian ethnicity.
Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like Victorians are Australians.
They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf.
They acknowledge a Bulgarian ethnicity but not a Μacedonian.[/QUOTE]
Just like Victorians are Victorians is a more appropriate statement and highlights the stupidity of the Greek argument.

The athenian government's arrogance will be it's downfall. Can't wait to see them squirm when the truth is acknowledged

[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3267]Greece does not recognise the Macedonian ethnicity.
Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like [B]Victorians are Australians[/B].
They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf.
They acknowledge a Bulgarian ethnicity but not a Μacedonian.[/QUOTE]

LOL

I couldnt laugh harder...

How about this one...

Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like Macedonians are Europeans.

[IMG]http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w295/miskoni_album/smiley/mysmilie_2148.gif[/IMG]


If only Greece recognize any of the minorities living within Greek boundaries, it will start the total decomposition of the "Greek" nation.


[QUOTE]They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf.[/QUOTE]

Finally we agree.
After the main problem of the "Greek" nation is revealed.

[QUOTE=Royal Hellas;3267]Greece does not recognise the Macedonian ethnicity.
Greece sees Macedonians as Greeks, just like Victorians are Australians.
They cannot change their position on this, as it is illogical on their behalf.
They acknowledge a Bulgarian ethnicity but not a Μacedonian.[/QUOTE]

Coolski would support this in principle.

He supports the principle that the Macedonian nationality, may well be Greek in origin, or Albanian. Basically anyone who "feels" Macedonian can be, regardless of their ethnic origin.

Pelister, I think you have substantially misinterpreted Coolski's posts.


How will the name game end?

Either capitulation by Macedonia, leading to a potential civil war in Macedonia (now that the majority of the population is against capitulation, it may lead to Governments being overthrown, etc)

or a potential war with Greece, once we get deeper into the Macedonian question and take the focus off the name.

Macedonia is no longer negotiating on the name because of the 'Interim Agreement'. The Interim Agreement has been anulled, it's no longer the basis for the name discussions.

Macedonia now (or rather, soon, but not soon enough) can bring the 'name dispute' to an end via the UN vote - it has not done so yet because it doesn't feel it has the diplomatic position needed to make that move. So, Macedonia continues to sit on the table and 'negotiate' (or waste time) until the time is right ('right', in the Government's opinion, in my opinion it has never been a better time).

There are a number of 'terms' in the Interim Agreement that Macedonia will not abide by, given that they are no longer basing talks in the interim agreement.

[QUOTE=Pelister;3343]Coolski would support this in principle.

He supports the principle that the Macedonian nationality, may well be Greek in origin, or Albanian. Basically anyone who "feels" Macedonian can be, regardless of their ethnic origin.[/QUOTE]
No he wouldn't Pelister.
I think you have a misunderstanding that we could all have between Nationality and Ethnicity.

For example, I believe Greece has hundreds of thousands of people who are Greek by Nationality but are Macedonian by ethnicity. Now what is happening to their ethnicity over time is another issue.

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;3356]No he wouldn't Pelister.
I think you have a misunderstanding that we could all have between Nationality and Ethnicity.

For example, I believe Greece has hundreds of thousands of people who are Greek by Nationality but are Macedonian by ethnicity. Now what is happening to their ethnicity over time is another issue.[/QUOTE]


Nationality vs Ethnicity? How do you separate the two?

To be a member of the Greek Nationality today, what does one have to do? Prove they are a Greek by genus, even if they are not?

The Greek Nationality is more than just a membership, or an identikit, isn't it?

Can someone with a Macedonian Nationality also have a Greek Nationality?

Is it as simple as saying I'm a citizen of this State, and a citizen of that State, therefore, I have a dual-Nationality? Sure, that is possible.

Is Nationality more than just citizenship? It could be I suppose. What form would it take if it was? How does one demonstrate their Greek Nationality? Is it simply a matter of saying I feel Greek, therefore, I am Greek? It's possible.

Can can a single word or line, in a manifesto [I]accurately represent [/I]or [I]define[/I] a Nationality? I don't think it can, and I don't think it should.


Did Albanians fighting under foriegn military command, against the Ottomans in Greece, have a Greek Nationality, or an Albanian Nationality, or both?

Another HUGE mistake being made is that Nationality relates to the emergence of the Nation state. One could argue the Macedonians had more of Nationality in the 1830's, than the Greeks, despite not having a Nation state for over another century.

The Macedonian Nationality didn't just magically appear to magically represent everyone.

I think that taking a post-modern interpretation of a few words in the Krushevo manifesto, is faslely represeting the Macedonian Nationality, which has in historical terms, represented the Macedonian ethnic group exclusively.

Sure, we could have even two or three nationalities these days, but the Macedonian nationality, has in historical terms, been nothing but Macedonian.

The Name Issue !
 

[url]http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3758/45/[/url]

Should they be negotiating at all?

Havn't the Macedonians compromised enough already?

Could it end badly for the Macedonians? Are the Macedonians somehow "trapped" by these negotiations? Are the negotiations false, i.e., based on false assumptions, taken as truths?

Should negotiations end ?

Negotiations should never have started.

[QUOTE]We await a meeting with Mr. Crvenkovski, where he will inform us of what has been discussed or agreed and once we know that, we will decide on what the future steps will be[/QUOTE]
I hope it is a hangman's noose for Crvenkovski!