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Pelister 12-30-2008 11:20 PM

Mission statement is a smokescreen.

They are not interested in FULL recognition - and every point I made about them is dead accurate.

I have it from a reliable source that Meto wants Macedonia in NATO as F.Y.R.O.M - not Republic of Macedonia. So I asked him myself - and he simply would not respond.

Secondly, since UMD has been around it has made Macedonia joining NATO is its HIGHEST priority, and this is based on their assumption that it will not survive unless it joins. A couple high ranking members of UMD stated at Maknews (before I hit the fan) that Macedonia should change its name to join NATO (Bushav was the one pushing this line hard).

UMD's objective is to bring Macedonia down.

It is not in the business of "defending", rather "taking what we can get" like all shrewd (shallow) fk heads. [B]It will ride the abuse for as long as there is abuse, and for as long as Macedonia has something left to compromise.[/B]

Soldier of Macedon 12-30-2008 11:28 PM

[QUOTE="Pelister"]UMD's objective is to bring Macedonia down.[/QUOTE]
Old friend, despite differing views many share with regard to the UMD and their approach to the Macedonian cause, I don't believe the above quoted statement for a second.

Let's throw the animosity out of the window and start fresh, come on fellas, ultimately we have one goal, the betterment of Macedonia and the Macedonian people.

Pelister 12-30-2008 11:34 PM

I hear ya.

But UMD advocate compromise.

UMD support the negotiations - UMD believe that the Greeks have legitimate grievances, and that the negotiations are legitimate and the Macedonian leadership has the right to be negotiating the terms of the Constitution.

Not the kind of people I want fighting for Macedonia. But defending Macedonia isn't their business.

They do not represent the Macednoian diaspora, even though this is how they portray themselves. Its a fkn sleight on all good and honest Macedonians to have an organization claim is representing them (taking advantage of their good trusting nature), and then pushing the agenda that Macedonia should give in to the Greeks.

I know my Macedonian history well enough to see a traitorous organization when I see one.

If you can steer your eyes away from the "relationships" they are building, and look at what they are really and actually advocating - you might be shocked.

Rogi 12-31-2008 03:41 AM


You have spread a whole lot of untruths and rubbish in this thread. There is absolutely no basis at all for any of what you have written.

You clearly have absolutely no idea about UMD whatsoever.

Where do you get this idea of you being on some high horse, almost God-like and all-seeing, of things that are not there?

UMD does not advocate for a compromise on the name. If it did, I would be working to destroy UMD, rather than build it.
UMD IS advocating for EU and NATO accession for Macedonia, however not at the expense of our Rights and Freedoms as Macedonians.

You are a sad, sad man if what you've written, is your agenda.

Sarafot 12-31-2008 07:02 AM

Hm,interesting thing,is UMD like MPO,i have also seen UMD works with CRVENKOVSKI much,not shure,but which is an organisation who will uniteing all of us around the world,is it WMC,or zo whom we trust to??

When will all this spliting stop!!Man i like to kick somebody ass.

Jankovska 12-31-2008 07:13 AM

[QUOTE=Sarafot;7559]Hm,interesting thing,is UMD like MPO,i have also seen UMD works with CRVENKOVSKI much,not shure,but which is an organisation who will uniteing all of us around the world,is it WMC,or zo whom we trust to??

When will all this spliting stop!!Man i like to kick somebody ass.[/QUOTE]

I'll help you with the arse kicking

Sarafot 12-31-2008 07:33 AM

Any way what hapend with thouse signatures which were colected for oposing the name ishue,it was something like on line petition?

There were a lot of signatures,what hapend to them?

Risto the Great 12-31-2008 06:05 PM

I would say 99.9% of the Macedonian Diaspora does not want any compromise whatsoever and is not willing to negotiate anything in relation to the Macedonian identity. If the UMD is indeed representative of its Diaspora, then this should be the case for the UMD as well.

If the UMD gives the impression that Greeks (amongst others) have grievances that should be acknowledged (even if it is merely in the interest of maintaining dialogue), then this deviates from the Diaspora's wishes.

Rogi, if you can answer on behalf of the UMD, I would appreciate your opinion on my observation. If you cannot, your response is appreciated anyway and I will ask this privately as a financial member and then submit the response here.

Rogi 01-01-2009 04:31 AM

I'll confirm without reservation that UMD does not want and will not support any compromise whatsoever on the part of the Republic of Macedonia.

There is no basis for which Macedonia should compromise even though Macedonia has unfortunately already compromised more than enough (which it should never have done in the first place).

More importantly however, for Macedonia to 'compromise' (and even negotiate with that purpose) is fundamentally wrong and brings into question the sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia and the very purpose of existence of the Republic of Macedonia.

UMD does not acknowledge any 'grievances' from the Greek side. That's just absurd when you consider what they have done to our people and the manner in which they continue to oppress our people.

We are fighting against the Greeks and their treatment of the Macedonian people in Aegean Macedonia and there would be no sense in any Macedonian acknowledging or accepting the new Greek attempts against the Macedonian people OUTSIDE of the modern Greek borders.

Some people in UMD are a little more diplomatic than I am in their [U]written[/U] responses, or anything that can go on record, and will answer more diplomatically than I will and so the response you will get will not be as straight forward as what I will give, but the idea behind it is.

Within UMD, some may have different ideas or opinions than I do on some questions. Actually and more specifically it is mostly differing opinions on methods of attack or prioritising different aspects of the Macedonian cause.

However, overall, after it comes down to internal discussions, disagreements, arguments and finally votes, the general direction of UMD toward the Macedonian Cause is, I believe, aligned with the views of the absolute majority of the Macedonian Diaspora and aligned with what most of us on the forum define as the Macedonian cause and its subsequent goals.

I hope that answer is clear and concise enough to your question? This all above is why I'd like to say to Pelister that what he says about UMD is incorrect. He may have the (correct or incorrect) view of an individual at UMD and may disagree with their views and opinions or even some statements they have made, but that does not represent the views of the organisation and I assure you that if a statement is made which is not in accordance with the view of UMD, such as the one that Meto did make on one video clip posted on the internet, there are repercussions internally and in fact that internal discussion that took place after the statement I am talking about was quite defining and clarifying.

UMD's position is now clear and unwavering, there have been mistakes on UMD's part as with any organisation but I say the best way to make sure the leading organisations and the few active organisations that we have is to get involved with them and help steer them and ensure they maintain the right path for the Macedonian cause.

Risto the Great 01-01-2009 04:48 AM

Excellent response Rogi.

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