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-   -   United Macedonia Diaspora (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2422)

Prolet 01-11-2010 06:36 AM

TK, Who are you? Where do you come from?? You seem to know a fair bit for a third generation Macedonian.

[QUOTE]TK, the administrators of this forum respect both flags for different reasons. We, along with most real Macedonians, reject the interim accord.[/QUOTE]

Risto, What different reasons?? People dont understand that its the previous Governments that put us in this mess, If Gruevski was there from the start we wouldnt be in this situation that we are in now.

Vangelovski 01-11-2010 06:37 AM

Buktop,

I'm glad that you think I'm that important :)

Why don't you just tell everyone your theory of consent. I've read it many times, but I'd like everyone on here to see it.

Buktop 01-11-2010 06:37 AM

[QUOTE=Jankovska;31884]Our Army is to defend, since when do you think it's ok to send your troops to a unjust war? Are you not ashamed that we are part of that? You should be. We have no business in Afganista, the war in Afganistan in illegal. We should never be a part of anything like that. It's a selfish world I know but we are getting nothing from it anyway. I don't have a saying in it Buktop but I am ashamed that Macedonians go on to kill innocent people in their country and take their last hope. I am ashamed of it and I will not shut up about it. I will never side with murderers, no matter if they are Macedonian or if they are Albanian, or if they are my family or not. The people of Afganistan have done nothing wrong to the Macedonian people, we should stay out of it. The people of Afganistan are victims of America and now us too. Shamefull[/QUOTE]

And who is to say that Macedonians are instigating the battles they fight. Their duty is to police the areas they are assigned. They have strict orders, do not fire until fired upon. The rules of engagement are clearly defined and are followed out to the T, otherwise Macedonian soldiers would not be allowed to participate in Afghanistan. We are not there to murder, we are not there to serve Americans. We are there to restore order and peace to Afghanistan, as a temporary police force, as they do not have their own as of yet.

Buktop 01-11-2010 06:43 AM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;31890]Bucktop,

You're not only an international law expert, a constitutional law expert, a political scientist, but also a military specialist now...Wow![/QUOTE]
Well we all can't be masters of evasion or bullshitters like you can we?

Jankovska 01-11-2010 06:44 AM

Peace in Afganistan? Whose tool are we? Who has asked us to go there/ Is it not the same people who fucked up the peace in Afganistan? Is it not the same people who kill,rape and torture the innocent people of Afganistan? Do we support them by being there? YES. That makes us just as bad. Like it or not we have no business there and we should pull out straight away. i don't support the war in Afganista, Iraq and I am against our Army to be suporting and serving murderers. Simple. Don't think you will not have blood on your hands if you go and support a murderer? You will and they do. Afganistan has done nothing to Macedonia for the Macedonians da si stavat nos i nivnata mandza. We should stay out. The peace talks about Afganistan and Irag are a US talk, they don't need someone to hold the peace, they need NATO soldiers including the Macedonians to leave them live their lifes in the their country the best way they can. Nie doma ne sme si se sredile ke ideme na drugi da sredueme. Boze Buktop sto se trudis da prodades, krastavici na krastavicar?

Buktop 01-11-2010 06:47 AM

[QUOTE=Vangelovski;31893]Buktop,

I'm glad that you think I'm that important :)

Why don't you just tell everyone your theory of consent. I've read it many times, but I'd like everyone on here to see it.[/QUOTE]

Once again evasion seems to be your weapon of choice, could you answer these questions for me, as I have obliged you on numerous occasions?

In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?

Vangelovski 01-11-2010 06:50 AM

[quote=Buktop;31885]March, 2007
[URL]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/190/52/[/URL]

Why don't you show us this so called support of the Interim accord and Ohrid framework that you keep claiming exists? If it is so obvious, surely you could show us?[/quote]


[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]Yet more ambiguity from UMD...although you've seen it so many times before, here is there support for these agreements - they not only support them, but there is the sense that they are marketing them as Macedonia's saviours.

UMD supports and legitimises these two agreements by arguing that they should be strictly enforced.

[B]Interim Accord[/B]

[/SIZE][/FONT] [I][B][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]NATO: The Case for Macedonia[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]12 March 2009 [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][URL]http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/topics_info_show.htm?doc_id=853200[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]At the April 2008 NATO Summit in Bucharest, Macedonia's invitation to join NATO was denied when Greece vetoed it, based on its unilateral objections to Macedonia's constitutional name. This veto directly violated the Interim Accord between Greece and Macedonia, brokered by the United Nations in 1995 following a three-year economic embargo Greece imposed on Macedonia. The accord stipulates that Greece will not block Macedonia from joining international organizations, as long as Macedonia does so under the UN-brokered name, "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia," pending a UN-facilitated, mutually acceptable name resolution.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[I][B][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]A name to reckon with[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]Sunday, May 4, 2008 [/SIZE][/FONT]
Meto Koloski's Opinion Piece in the Washington Times
[URL]http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/04/a-name-to-reckon-with/[/URL]

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]...[B]It was Greece, not Macedonia, that rejected the most recent proposal[/B] to resolve the "name dispute." Moreover, [B]Greece's veto violated the 1995 Interim Accord[/B] that it signed with Macedonia, which binds Greece's right to veto Macedonia's NATO bid or any other international organization that Macedonia would like to join [B]as long as it joins under the U.N. provisional reference term used to identify Macedonia[/B]...[/SIZE][/FONT]
[I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]This is not only supporting and legitimising the Interim Accord, but is implying that Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) was a good proposal and condemning Greece for rejecting the proposal.[/SIZE][/FONT][/I]

[I][B][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]UMD Sends Letter to U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Regarding Greece[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]Thursday, 14 February 2008[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][URL]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/305/51/[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

...American policy on Macedonia’s NATO admission is in alignment with Article 11 of the Interim Accord, which bars Greece from impeding Macedonia’s accession to international bodies, including NATO, as long as Macedonia accedes under the Provisional Reference. [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[I][B][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]UMD Dismayed By Greece's Veto of Macedonia[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]Thursday, 03 April 2008[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][URL]http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/321/53/[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]…The Greek veto violates the 1995 United Nations brokered Interim Accord between Macedonia and Greece, which barred Greece from using the "name dispute" to impede Macedonia's NATO accession…[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][B]The Framework Agreement[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[I][B][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]NATO: The Case for Macedonia[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/I]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]12 March 2009 [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3][URL]http://www.fpa.org/topics_info2414/topics_info_show.htm?doc_id=853200[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]In 2001, Albanian extremists attacked Macedonian police officers and burned villages, [B] demanding more rights in education, employment, and political representation. Through a U.S. - EU brokered agreement, the conflict was resolved and Macedonian-Albanians were accorded full rights, including higher education courses in the Albanian language and a 25% set-aside for the army, police force, and public administration. Today, Macedonian-Albanians fully participate in social and economic development, working with their countrymen to ensure the nation's membership into NATO and the EU.[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]In this Meto makes the Albanian extremists look like 'freedom fighters' struggling for human rights!!!
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=3]
Why can't UMD just unambigiously renounce these two agreements, like the vast majority of Diaspora organisations?[/SIZE][/FONT]

Buktop 01-11-2010 06:53 AM

[QUOTE=Jankovska;31897]Peace in Afganistan? Whose tool are we? Who has asked us to go there/ Is it not the same people who fucked up the peace in Afganistan? Is it not the same people who kill,rape and torture the innocent people of Afganistan? Do we support them by being there? YES. That makes us just as bad. Like it or not we have no business there and we should pull out straight away. i don't support the war in Afganista, Iraq and I am against our Army to be suporting and serving murderers. Simple. Don't think you will not have blood on your hands if you go and support a murderer? You will and they do. Afganistan has done nothing to Macedonia for the Macedonians da si stavat nos i nivnata mandza. We should stay out. The peace talks about Afganistan and Irag are a US talk, they don't need someone to hold the peace, they need NATO soldiers including the Macedonians to leave them live their lifes in the their country the best way they can. Nie doma ne sme si se sredile ke ideme na drugi da sredueme. Boze Buktop sto se trudis da prodades, krastavici na krastavicar?[/QUOTE]

Now I take personal offense to this, some of my best friends are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they are not MURDERERS. You need to check your fucking facts, whatever you believe to be the agenda of the campaign in Afghanistan and Iraq, the JOBS of the soldiers there is to restore peace and to police the territories until their own police are competent enough to do it themselves.

If you would like, I'll arrange for you to meet with some of these so called "murderers" maybe then you'll understand what is actually going on out there, rather than believing some bullshit you read in a fucking magazine.

Vangelovski 01-11-2010 06:55 AM

[quote=Buktop;31896]Well we all can't be masters of evasion or [B]bullshitters [/B]like you can we?[/quote]

Wow, another clever word!

Vangelovski 01-11-2010 06:55 AM

[quote=Buktop;31900]You need to check your [B]fucking [/B]facts[/quote]

And another clever word!


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