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Epirot 08-18-2010 11:28 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;67567]I am positive that pears were/are also grown outside of historical Dardania, speaking of which, were Krushevo and Korche in Dardania?[/QUOTE]

For some period Korça's plain was under Dardanian domination as many archeological findings had indicated (see Nicholas Hammond). Dardanians took possession of Lake Lyhnid and regions around itand possibly left some traces. I find as an interesting case some survival toponymes in Korça like the name of a small village called [B][I]Dardhë. [/I][/B]

More about it geographical location:

[QUOTE]KORÇË: Grammos Mountains (Mali i Grammozit), ca 3.8 km southwest of village Dardhë, northern slope of Mount.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Epirus_ethnic_(Greek_point_of_view).JPG[/url]

[QUOTE]How would you use the word 'delme' in a sentence today? From what I can see, the Albanian word for sheep is either 'dhen' or 'dele'. [/QUOTE]

You're right about two words that are used in Albanian to denote a 'sheep'. We usually use [B][I]'dhen'[/I][/B] when we talks about sheeps (in plural) and '[B][I]dele[/I][/B]' (in singular) or 'dele[B]t[/B]' in plural.

[QUOTE]In Macedonian 'shar' means stripes or marks, it can also mean colourful if said as 'sharen'. This can be connected to rugged-looking terrain. How would you use 'sharre' in a sentence today?[/QUOTE]

It looks interesting that in both two languages the cognate words for Sharr mountain are connected somehow with its rugged relief. Now I remind that it is even an another similar world in Albanian with 'Sharr' as its root. We use for instance 'Sharroj' to say 'fell down'. An example:
[B][I]Sharrova thellë në një pellg uji[/I][/B]
[B][I]I fell down deep in a puddle of water. [/I][/B]

[B]"Sharroj"[/B] is just a homonym with [B][I]'Sharroj'[/I][/B] that mean /[B][I]to cut down a tree[/I][/B]/.

Epirot 08-18-2010 11:38 AM

An another etymology that calls for some attention is the name of [B][I]Pelagonia[/I][/B]. If this ancient name is a pre-Illyrian name (i.e Paeonian one) then it has a cognate word in Albanian which fits to the geographical nature of Pelagonia as a land of waters. Pelagonia can be related with Alb. [B][COLOR="Red"][I]'pellg'[/I][/COLOR][/B] (or pellgje in plural) that means "[B][I]pool, puddle, backwater[/I][/B]":

[url]http://www.argjiro.net/fjalor/index.php3[/url]

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/PaeoniaPaioniaMap.png[/IMG]

You know that Pelagonia encompassed a region that was full of lakes and rivers.

Lakes:

- Lake of Ohrid
- Lakes of Prespa
- Lake "Orestiada" (Λίμνη Ορεστιάδα)

Rivers:

-Haliacmon
etc.

Epirot 08-18-2010 12:53 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;67568]Where is that place?[/QUOTE]

Kastrat is close to the Albanian-Montengrin boundary.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kastrat[/url]

Epirot 08-18-2010 12:55 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;67567]Edith Durham was an Albanophile who spent most of her travels through the Balkans in Albania. [/QUOTE]

Taking in account some Albanian possibilities regarding some etymologies does not make anyone an Albanophile!

Sovius 08-18-2010 02:25 PM

Epirot,
Let’s say we move beyond antiquated speculation for a bit and examine some concrete evidence:

identical place-names between Albania and Caucasus:

Albo-Arnauti -Caucasus- Arnauti
Albo-Bushati - Caucasus-Bushati (also the name of an Albanian tribe)
Albo-Baboti - Caucasus-Baboti
Albo-Baka -Caucasus-Bako
Albo-Ballagati - Caucasus-Balagati
Albo-Ballaj,Balli - Caucasus- Bali
Albo-Bashkimi - Caucasus-Bashkoi
Albo-Bathore- Caucasus- Batharia
Albo-Bater- Caucasus- Bataris
Albo-Geg - Caucasus-Gegi, Gegeni, Geguti (Term used by Albanians in their language to denote their brethre north of the Shkumbi R.)
Albo-Demir Kapia - Caucasus-Demir Kapia (Turkish term: "iron gates"; term by which Turks refered to the Caspian Sea or arch: Albanian Sea)
Albo-Kish, Kisha... - Caucasus-Kish (Eight different toponyms in Albania begin with "kish")
Albo-Kurata,Kuratem,Kurateni(villages)-Caucasus-Kura (river) (Nine different toponyms in Albania begin with "Kura")
Albo-Luginasi - Caucasus-Lugini
Albo-Rusani - Caucasus-Rusian
Albo-Sheshani, Shoshani, Shashani - Caucasus-Shashani
Albo-Sheshaj, Sheshi - Caucasus-Sheshleti
Albo-Skalla - Caucasus-Skaleri
Albo-Shiptari Shipyaki, Shkhepa, - Caucasus-Shkepi
Albo-Shkoder - Caucasus-Shkeder, Shked, Shkoda
Albo-Shekulli - Caucasus-Shekouli
Albo-Skuraj - Caucasus-Skuria

Source:

[url]http://my.opera.com/macedonianneighbourhood/blog/show.dml/4235614[/url]

[SIZE="2"](visit often, much to learn)[/SIZE]



It would appear as though your strict argument allows you only two options:

Are you stating that the Ancient Illyrians migrated from the Caucasus region into Europe or are you stating that the Ancient Illyrians were a Caucasian language speaking people from the Balkans who conquered an entire region in Central Eurasia, yet left no trace of evidence that would suggest that they had ever done so, except for these place names?

It would be interesting to get your take on this conundrum here.

Bill77 08-18-2010 08:17 PM

Epirot,

Here is what one of your own says. You might know him :wink:

Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich:

[QUOTE] That, as well, witnesses the ethno genesis of the Albanians after their arrival on the Balkan and populating the northern Albanian mountains. I have already mentioned about the Illyrians, but the second ethnonym to which they pretend, the Dardanians, it is known, were not Illyrians, but Thracians. Even if they (Dardanians) had been Illyrians, again they haven’t any connection with the Albanians, because that kind of connection neither have the Illyrians themselves. Science has proven that very clearly. In respect of the Albanoi (an) s, they are a Celtic tribe, which on the territory of Albania, in the region Mat, arrives in the IV century BC. Today’s Albanians, actually, only much, much later take over their name, as have done today’s Bulgarians from the non slavic Bulgars of Asparuh, or today’s French, from the old Germanic Franks, deforming the old Celtic name Arlbn/Arlbr. Arbanasi is the other name with which our ancestors the “Slavs” are naming them during the Middle Ages. Arnauts is the name, which the Turks use for them. It should be known that not all Arnauts were at the same time Albanians, as well. Because the Arnauts (Albanians) got a reputation as good hired hands in the Turkish Empire, the other mercenaries were also called Arnauts. That means that there were Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians ARNAUTS, because some of them are also islamised, thus as Muslims they serve under the Turkish flag not only as common soldiers, but also as arnauts (mercenaries). Skiptar (or Shiptar and deformed Shiftar, all originate from the Albanian appellative Shqiptar) is the current national name of the Albanians, spread amongst them in the XVII-XIX century, influenced by the name Osman, as the Turks were naming themselves. Namely, osman in Turkish is “eagle”, while in Albanian it is “shquipe”. Thus, the Albanians of Muslim faith wanted to relate themselves with the Muslims Turks, which was also the aim of the Porte, even of the original platform of the Prizren League, which originally is not Albanian at all, but pan Islamic. And if its primary aims succeeded, most probably the Albanians would not exist today because all of them in the meantime would have become Turks. [/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 08-18-2010 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=slovenec zrinski;67546]They are bosnians and not albanians in Novi Pazar...

And btw..good work on this thread SoM.[/QUOTE]
Hey Zrinski, thanks.

It hasn't really been challenging thus far, to be honest.

Soldier of Macedon 08-18-2010 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=Epirot;67583]Taking in account some Albanian possibilities regarding some etymologies does not make anyone an Albanophile![/QUOTE]
Epirot, she was an Albanophile, no doubt about it. I don't think she has ever written anything critical about Albanians, has she? Have you read all of her works concerning the Albanians? She appears to have been very anti-Slavic.

George S. 08-18-2010 10:40 PM

Do people know that the modern albanians have no connection to the iluyrians due to the fact that they emigrated from Albania in Asia.
Just asking people if they know because there's heaps of theories going about the origins of Albanians.

Soldier of Macedon 08-18-2010 10:44 PM

George, how are people going to know if you don't inform them? What has led you to this conclusion? What do you have in support of such an argument? This is what we need to see, otherwise anybody is capable of stating a one-liner.


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