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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Risto the Great 06-23-2009 09:08 AM

[QUOTE=Venom;18838]We will all support Macedonia. Outside and inside. Don't worry about the propaganda the papers and shit spit out, most of the people in Macedonia are strongly against a name change and I would say a lot are against joining the EU if that was a criteria.[/QUOTE]
Aha, thanks Venom. You have cared to discuss the sentiment within Macedonia. Do you think they have more of a desire for self preservation than we do here in the Diaspora?

Perhaps a better question is are we more idealistic in the Diaspora? Does the economic and geographic detachment we have allow us the opportunity to more fully appreciate the treachery of these negotiations?

People under duress do not make decisions they are comfortable with. We in the diaspora are under no pressure whatsoever and see the negotiations for what they are.

I am feeling a little militant today. I am sick and tired of wishy washy politics when it comes to matters of identity.

Soldier of Macedon 06-23-2009 09:13 AM

Venom is right, most people in the republic don't want a name change, but you make a good point RTG, under duress people don't make comfortable decisions. The question is, how do we keep them from caving in, in the case that they cannot do it themselves?

Risto the Great 06-23-2009 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=Volk;18856]Interesting thread... I wonder the real strength behind the Macedonian diaspora...

Can we agree that it was insignificant in 2001? We can all remember the major news outlets denationalizing us by calling us Slavs. Ragtag army...ect ect. Hopefully we have grown stronger since then.[/QUOTE]
Jeez I should remember this quite well.

I was in the executive committee at our little Adelaide community during those times. We were constantly writing to various Government departments rejecting letters and demanding apologies for the rapid change in "stance" that seemed to happen overnight.

I am not sure whether the Diaspora made much of a difference at all. As stated earlier by Rogi, the negotiation of our identity would have a very damaging effect on the psyche of all Macedonians. Something similar happened in 2001 due to the helplessness of the situation. Personally, I have had business interests on the boil for quite a while and feel very reluctant pursuing them in a country that appears not to respect the desire of its majority.

I am of the opinion that the rapidly growing national consciousness within Macedonia is a good thing and must not be hampered in any way at this stage. To see Macedonians as victims in 2001 was very damaging and we should never forget who made the erosion of our sovereignty possible.

Hard question Volk. The Diaspora has not been utilised anywhere near enough by consecutive Macedonian governments. If Macedonia was clever about it, much more could be gained from its Diaspora.

Risto the Great 06-23-2009 09:27 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;18867]The question is, how do we keep them from caving in, in the case that they cannot do it themselves?[/QUOTE]
I don't think we can do it by shaming them. You know ... calling them sellouts etc. That will have the opposite effect, they will get their backs up and remind us we don't know what it is like to suffer in that country .

The Grkomani did this in Greece many years ago.

Gentle, forceful reminders within Macedonia might be useful along with fierce Diaspora resistance to the wolves that seek to eliminate us. This is worthy of more thought I reckon.

Risto the Great 06-23-2009 09:32 AM

Hey, can I be a North Macedonian from Southern Macedonia?
I would imagine this will only be possible if there is a Southern Macedonia. I can't wait for Greece to give up its New Territory and restore its rightful name. I will even be happy if the new country is called South Macedonia .... for now.

Volk 06-23-2009 10:30 AM

Interesting Risto, perhaps the MKD government could look at how other 'successful' country have been able to utilize their diaspora.

Perhaps the diaspora bodies should also frame themselves like other successful diasporas. Eg Israel, greece; are there others?

I fear our nation is to passive for it own good :gunsmilie:

Orovnichanec 06-23-2009 11:31 AM

I would definitely support the Macedonia and the government for finally showing a backbone.

Pelister 06-23-2009 11:40 PM

They are traitors.

The Macedonian people had their say in September, 1991. Its done, finished.

Through the Act of negotiating, individuals in this government are undermining the Macedonian people's right to self determination, the democratic process, and our soveriegnty.

Pelister 06-24-2009 12:20 AM

If they pulled out of the negotiations, and respected the decision of the Macedonian people of September, 1991, of 1944, of 1903, of 1878 and earlier ...

I would invest millions in Macedonia.

If these individual politicians do not end these negotiations, but continue to cover up the atrocities committed against us, the Greek invasion of 1913 which broke every international treaty and law of its day ... if they continue and "try" to change our historical name.

I will do two things; one, I will reject my Macedonian heritage, and two, never visit that country again, or invest any money in it.

Its that simple for me.

Risto the Great 06-24-2009 12:36 AM

[QUOTE=Volk;18883]Interesting Risto, perhaps the MKD government could look at how other 'successful' country have been able to utilize their diaspora.

Perhaps the diaspora bodies should also frame themselves like other successful diasporas. Eg Israel, greece; are there others?

I fear our nation is to passive for it own good :gunsmilie:[/QUOTE]
I don't think Greece has done that good a job.
Israel definitely has.
And I would have to say the Albanians have done quite a good job too. It would appear that a good Diaspora is measured by how much money it has given to its Fatherland.


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