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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Phoenix 01-10-2019 12:46 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;178303]URL:
[url]http://www.ekathimerini.com/236405/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-pm-says-he-would-seek-confidence-vote-if-coalition-breaks-up[/url]

Asked about the timing of the ratification of the name deal in Athens, Tsipras said he will bring it before lawmakers immediately after the country receives official note of its completion in Rep. of Macedonia. He warned that if Greece refuses to ratify it after Rep. of Macedonia has been made to change its constitution "the country will become an international laughing stock."[/QUOTE]

Putting aside the smallest shred of legitimacy that the greeks believe they have in this issue (in other words, the greek fabricated name question has always solely been used to bury the injustices committed against the Macedonian people), its resolution has become nothing but a personal pissing contest between Zaev and Tsipras to garner western approval of their statesmanship...both leaders are more interested in their political legacy, as internationalists, rather than the future implications of their actions.

The perceived failure of either Zaev or Tsipras in getting this agreement over the line is merely a personal defeat.
For the greeks, failure will not have any lasting ramifications, for the Macedonian people, the enactment of the agreement is a total and unequivocal disaster.

Failure for Tsipras means a long and lonely walk into the political sunset with his tail between his legs and a minor dent of his ego, Greece loses nothing either way...Zaev is the only one that has put everything Macedonian's hold dear on the line to get the deal done, everything that is not his, has been auctioned to the lowest bidder, these are not the actions of a statesman but more in keeping with his real qualifications and expertise as a small town crook.

Pelagonija 01-10-2019 05:24 AM

Big Merkel will kindly remind Greece who owns Greece. Greeks will ratify. Though how funny would it be if the Greeks don’t ratify. Macedonians are retarded hence not even the above hypothetical scenario would galvanise the mob into a nationalist frenzy. But the western govs would end up with egg on their faces as they rallied hard to get this over the line, ignoring human rights, democratic values and even ignored the failed referendum.

Interesting to see how much Zaev will concede to the Shiptari..

In addition to above why would they reverse something they so easily gave up on, obviously no one gives a crap anyway.

vicsinad 01-10-2019 09:45 AM

No consensus as of a few minutes ago. Zaev is standing up to the Albanians by wanting to keep citizenship as: "Macedonian/citizen of North Macedonia."

But he's only "standing up" to them because the Prespa Agreement says we cannot say "Macedonia" but have to say "North Macedonia." BESA wanted it to say "Citizenship of Macedonia/citizen of North Macedonia"

Kakvo narod sme nie.

[URL="https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka"]https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka[/URL]

Преговорите меѓу премиерот Зоран Заев и партискиот врв на БЕСА на Билал Касами се во ќорсокак и тешко дека ќе се постигне договор, дознава „Алсат“.

Според неофицијални извори, Заев не го прифаќа барањето на БЕСА државјанството во Уставот да биде определено на следниов начин: „државјанство на Македонија/државјанин на Република Северна Македонија“.

БЕСА, од друга страна, го прифаќа „македонско“(то) државјанство за Македонците, но не и за Албанците, дознава „Алсат“.

Претходно премиерот Заев објасни дека се работи за проблем во преводот од албански и игра на зборови, но тоа сигурно нема да ја интересира Грција, бидејќи од Преспанскиот договор јасно произлегува дека во Уставот, а ни на државен документ, не може да стои фраза како „државјанство на Македонија“, без разлика на кој и јазик да е напишана. Впрочем, тоа е и една од главните поенти на уставните измени – секаде каде што стои „Македонија“ да се додаде „Северна“.

Niko777 01-10-2019 12:18 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178310]No consensus as of a few minutes ago. Zaev is standing up to the Albanians by wanting to keep citizenship as: "Macedonian/citizen of North Macedonia."

But he's only "standing up" to them because the Prespa Agreement says we cannot say "Macedonia" but have to say "North Macedonia." BESA wanted it to say "Citizenship of Macedonia/citizen of North Macedonia"

Kakvo narod sme nie.

[URL="https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka"]https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka[/URL]

Преговорите меѓу премиерот Зоран Заев и партискиот врв на БЕСА на Билал Касами се во ќорсокак и тешко дека ќе се постигне договор, дознава „Алсат“.

Според неофицијални извори, Заев не го прифаќа барањето на БЕСА државјанството во Уставот да биде определено на следниов начин: „државјанство на Македонија/државјанин на Република Северна Македонија“.

БЕСА, од друга страна, го прифаќа „македонско“(то) државјанство за Македонците, но не и за Албанците, дознава „Алсат“.

Претходно премиерот Заев објасни дека се работи за проблем во преводот од албански и игра на зборови, но тоа сигурно нема да ја интересира Грција, бидејќи од Преспанскиот договор јасно произлегува дека во Уставот, а ни на државен документ, не може да стои фраза како „државјанство на Македонија“, без разлика на кој и јазик да е напишана. Впрочем, тоа е и една од главните поенти на уставните измени – секаде каде што стои „Македонија“ да се додаде „Северна“.[/QUOTE]

This is so pathetic.

[QUOTE]Kakvo narod sme nie. [/QUOTE]

Duri mi grede da bluam...

Spirit 01-10-2019 03:29 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178310]No consensus as of a few minutes ago. Zaev is standing up to the Albanians by wanting to keep citizenship as: "Macedonian/citizen of North Macedonia."

But he's only "standing up" to them because the Prespa Agreement says we cannot say "Macedonia" but have to say "North Macedonia." BESA wanted it to say "Citizenship of Macedonia/citizen of North Macedonia"

Kakvo narod sme nie.

[URL="https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka"]https://365.com.mk/290323/alsat-besa-bara-drzhavjanstvo-na-makedonija-drzhavjanin-na-zaev-ne-prifaka[/URL]

Преговорите меѓу премиерот Зоран Заев и партискиот врв на БЕСА на Билал Касами се во ќорсокак и тешко дека ќе се постигне договор, дознава „Алсат“.

Според неофицијални извори, Заев не го прифаќа барањето на БЕСА државјанството во Уставот да биде определено на следниов начин: „државјанство на Македонија/државјанин на Република Северна Македонија“.

БЕСА, од друга страна, го прифаќа „македонско“(то) државјанство за Македонците, но не и за Албанците, дознава „Алсат“.

Претходно премиерот Заев објасни дека се работи за проблем во преводот од албански и игра на зборови, но тоа сигурно нема да ја интересира Грција, бидејќи од Преспанскиот договор јасно произлегува дека во Уставот, а ни на државен документ, не може да стои фраза како „државјанство на Македонија“, без разлика на кој и јазик да е напишана. Впрочем, тоа е и една од главните поенти на уставните измени – секаде каде што стои „Македонија“ да се додаде „Северна“.[/QUOTE]

The chickens are coming home to roost. The Pandora’s Box is fully opened and the they have fallen into the abyss with no way out. This is nothing but a token gesture and the Neanderthal buffoon will capitulate. This is so pathetic.

Albo 01-10-2019 06:38 PM

The dilemma is for the translated Albanian version to remain in it's current form.. the Macedonian and English versions as agreed to with greece - Makedonsko/Macedonian ..aren't being contested by Besa,

On current passports it states - Makedonsko/Macedonian/Maqedonisë (which in the term Maqedonisë in Albanaian means 'Of Mecedonia')

vicsinad 01-10-2019 06:50 PM

[QUOTE=Albo;178316]The dilemma is for the translated Albanian version to remain in it's current form.. the Macedonian and English versions as agreed to with greece - Makedonsko/Macedonian ..aren't being contested by Besa,

On current passports it states - Makedonsko/Macedonian/Maqedonisë (which in the term Maqedonisë in Albanaian means 'Of Mecedonia')[/QUOTE]

The dilemma is that your ilk won't stop until Macedonia, or North Macedonia, is completely Albanianized and Illydria becomes a reality.

Stop playing games here.

Gocka 01-10-2019 07:02 PM

[QUOTE=Albo;178316]The dilemma is for the translated Albanian version to remain in it's current form.. the Macedonian and English versions as agreed to with greece - Makedonsko/Macedonian ..aren't being contested by Besa,

On current passports it states - Makedonsko/Macedonian/Maqedonisë (which in the term Maqedonisë in Albanaian means 'Of Mecedonia')[/QUOTE]

It doesn't matter because none of these designations relate to ethnicity. By citizenship you are Macedonians. Why does it have to say of Macedonia? Why are you people so pointlessly backwards and contrarian in everything.

vicsinad 01-10-2019 07:19 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;178321]It doesn't matter because none of these designations relate to ethnicity. By citizenship you are Macedonians. Why does it have to say of Macedonia? Why are you people so pointlessly backwards and contrarian in everything.[/QUOTE]

They want to be a part of Macedonian society, always complaining about how Macedonia doesn't accept them, but despise everything Macedonia. Why can the Serbs, Vlachs, Turks and Roma live with "Macedonian" as their citizenship and not see it as a violation of some fundamental right, but the Albanians can't? They want to be treated as equals, but at the same time wanted to be separate.

Gocka 01-10-2019 07:34 PM

[QUOTE=vicsinad;178323]They want to be a part of Macedonian society, always complaining about how Macedonia doesn't accept them, but despise everything Macedonia. Why can the Serbs, Vlachs, Turks and Roma live with "Macedonian" as their citizenship and not see it as a violation of some fundamental right, but the Albanians can't? They want to be treated as equals, but at the same time wanted to be separate.[/QUOTE]

If you or I moved to Albania and took citizenship, we would be Albanian in regards to our citizenship. This is how it works everywhere in the fucking world, yet with these baboons, everything is a god damn problem!

This is what happens when you "negotiate" with backwards, disingenuous, and unreasonable people. Zaev is going to learn the hard way, both with the Greeks and Albanians, and probably later with the Bulgarians, why you do negotiate with animals. These people are not here to negotiate in good faith, they are out for blood. With every passing concession, their blood lust only grows bigger.

We will never have peace and understanding with any of our neighbors. They hate us, they will not stop until we either cease to exist, or submit to their every whim without question.


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