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-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Tomche Makedonche 09-15-2018 08:52 AM

[url]https://www.mia.mk/Mobile/en/Home/RenderSingleNews/289?newsID=134457023[/url]

[B]Zaev: Constitutional Revision After Referendum[/B]

Lipkovo, 15 September 2018 (MIA) - The constitutional revision is logical and will be administered by parliamentary committees after completion of the referendum, said Prime Minister Zoran Zaev on Saturday.

"Changes will be made in Articles 3 and 49 of the Constitution preamble. The preamble will only enhance the decisions of the Anti-fascist Assembly for the National Liberation of Macedonia (ASNOM) for freedom, democracy, equality among citizens.

Article 49 that refers to the diaspora will be adapted to the European context. Macedonia has a diaspora of ethnic Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Roma, Serbs, Vlachs and the current wording could cause irredentism or provocations in the future.

Therefore, we will adapt it as in EU member-states and how the country takes care of its diaspora," PM Zaev told reporters during a visit to Lipkovo.

Republic of Macedonia will be changed into Republic of North Macedonia, whereas Macedonian will remain as it is.

"These constitutional revision is quite logical. I believe the changes will be promoted once the official committees complete them. A formal procedure cannot be launched yet because this would mean prejudging of the people's will," said Zaev.

The parliamentary committees will work on the constitutional revision once the referendum results are released. A two-third majority is initially required, followed by a 30-day debate, a simple majority vote, another debate, ending with a two-third majority vote.

"Our calculations show that 106 days are required for the entire procedure. This is the process in Macedonia, followed by a vote in the Greek parliament, and finally realization of the friendship we have created," underlined PM Zaev.

Risto the Great 09-15-2018 06:43 PM

And yet Zaev still lives.

Soldier of Macedon 09-15-2018 07:17 PM

[QUOTE]A formal procedure cannot be launched yet because this would mean prejudging of the people's will," said Zaev.[/QUOTE]
He says this after suggesting that the people’s will (“referendum”) wont be binding anyway. Manipulative maggot.

Pelagonija 09-16-2018 12:04 AM

Zaev and co are leftist Marxist lunatics, actually a majority of Fyromers are. This is why communism is making a comeback. Bratsvo I idenstvo.. or be purged.

Carlin 09-16-2018 08:44 AM

[B]Марш „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија” во Скопје[/B]

Со траспарент и беџови „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија”, со македонски и знамиња на ЕУ во Скопје се одржува маршот на поддржувачите на Коалицијата “ЗА европска Македонија”.

URL:
[url]https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/marsh-izlezi-za-evropska-makedonija-vo-skopje[/url]

Со транспарентот „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија” граѓаните ги предводеа премиерот Зоран Заев, претседателот на Собранието Талат Џафери, министрите Никола Димитров, Радмила Шекеринска и Оливер Спасовски, градоначалникот на Скопје Петре Шилегов.

Собирот е пред седиштето на Делегацијата на ЕУ во Македонија, а започна со интонирање на македонската химна и на Одата на радоста.

Во Скопје за маршот организирано со автобуси пристигнаа граѓани од цела Македонија.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/c8L3vv5.jpg[/img]

[B]Video from Канал 5 (youtube)[/B]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSSxby8mRA[/url]

[U]Update[/U]: [B]ФОТО ГАЛЕРИЈА[/B] - Огромен број на граѓани излегоа на денешниот “Марш ЗА европска Македонија”
[url]https://iportal.mk/makedonija/foto-galerija-ogromen-broj-na-gragjani-izlegoa-na-deneshniot-marsh-za-evropska-makedonija/[/url]

Tomche Makedonche 09-16-2018 06:47 PM

[url]https://www.sbs.com.au/news/approve-name-change-or-face-hopelessness-macedonia-pm[/url]

[B]Approve name-change or face 'hopelessness': Macedonia PM[/B]

Macedonians must choose between a new name or a future of isolation and instability, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev says.

He made the remarks ahead of the September 30 referendum on the Macedonia name dispute.

The proposed change, which would rename the country the Republic of North Macedonia, is Zaev's effort to end a 27-year-old dispute with Greece and usher his Balkan nation into NATO and the European Union.

Long seen as one of Europe's most stubborn deadlocks, the name row is a tussle over history, identity and land.

Athens has blocked the former Yugoslav republic from joining NATO and the EU since 1991 because it considers the country's name an encroachment on its own province called Macedonia.

Greeks also accuse Skopje of appropriating their history and culture, notably by erecting huge monuments to Alexander the Great, the king of ancient Macedon.

But there was a breakthrough between Zaev and Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras in July -- a rare detente in a region tangled in complex disagreements.

Zaev must now convince the country of 2.1 million people to accept the new name despite a widespread feeling that they have been bullied by Greece.

A pro-Europe politician who helped topple a nationalistic government, Zaev has framed the name-change as a painful but historic opportunity for Macedonia to link arms with the West.

If the deal unravels, it will mean "hopelessness, total isolation of the country, probably another chapter of insecurity and instability in the whole region", the 43-year-old told AFP after a campaign speech in the western city of Kicevo.

Alternatively, a 'yes' vote could make the accord a model for other regional disputes, said Zaev, an economist who has sought to revamp Macedonia's foreign relations since coming to power more than one year ago.

"Other types of identity problems can be solved through deals like this," he said.

[U]Where's the name? [/U]

Zaev and his Social Democrats party must tread lightly to avoid inflaming nationalists who feel they are being robbed of their identity.

He has avoided uttering the new name during townhall-style debates around the country.

"North" is also nowhere to be seen on government billboards that encourage the public to "Go vote for a European Macedonia".

The referendum question itself asks: "Are you for EU and NATO membership by accepting the agreement between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Greece?"

Zaev is trying to reach the majority of Macedonians -- 80 percent, he says -- who want to join those Western institutions.

But critics have chafed at what they perceive to be a misleading question.

And while NATO membership is all but assured, the road to the EU will be longer for a country still mired in corruption.

The appetite for EU enlargement is also shrinking among some members of the bloc, who voted to push Macedonia's accession talks back to June 2019 despite the hard-won deal.

EU officials and leaders like Angela Merkel have nevertheless been passing through Skopje almost daily to whip up support.

The Russians, meanwhile, "told me that they have nothing against Macedonia's accession to the EU but that they are opposed to NATO integration", said Zaev.

[U]#Boycott campaign[/U]

A July survey conducted by the US-funded Center for Insights in Survey Research found 57 percent supported the accord.

"I am so strongly convinced that the referendum will succeed that I'm not even looking into other options," Zaev told AFP.

The right-wing opposition, VMRO-DPMNE, has stopped short of advocating a boycott, urging the public instead to act "according to their conscience".

Civic groups have taken up the torch however, with the hashtag #boycott rippling across social media.

Zaev said detractors are using "disinformation as a tool" to defeat the proposal.

The biggest challenge may be generating sufficient turnout in a country where even supporters are only grudgingly in favour of the deal.

"I don't think it's a fair deal, but I will vote for it," said Sasho Ilioski, 45, because he wanted a chance to join the EU.

"There is a certain amount of disappointment here, that people will lose a part of their identity, their national pride. They will still vote for this deal, but these feelings cannot be hidden."

Gocka 09-16-2018 09:00 PM

[quote]"There is a certain amount of disappointment here, that people will lose a part of their identity, their national pride. They will still vote for this deal, but these feelings cannot be hidden."[/quote]

That quote right there, perfectly sums up what I have been seeing and hearing for months now, and why I have been convinced that the referendum will succeed even without any intimidations or manipulations.

Like usual, those who want to make a difference are tone deaf, and more concerned with ego rather than objectively assessing the situation and coming up with a plan that will succeed.

The boycott movement is nothing more than a lazy and misguided movement that feels content with doing as little as physically possible yet still claiming otherwise, and misguided for assuming that their point of view is in the majority. They are playing a numbers game, where the numbers are against them, but good luck trying to explain that to those involved.

This has been coming for years and if you didn't see it, then you weren't paying attention. When we first started LOMA, one of our goals was to figure out how to give Macedonians in ROM an alternative future. In the end that is what this comes down to. Every major party in Macedonia has hung their citizens futures on the promise of EU membership. No other investments are alternatives have even been attempted. A small part of me can understand and empathize with the situation. That is the major failure of the diaspora, and activists alike. You can't just be against things with out providing an alternative.

The honest truth about that shit hole is that their is no alternative on the horizon, not even close. So although I loathe that it has come to this, and I hope to god somehow it doesn't happen, I am also not at all surprised at peoples willingness to go through with this.

In my point of view, the citizens still bear virtually the entire responsibility for this predicament. They are the ones who constantly voted in politicians that did nothing but back them and their futures into a giant hole. They may very well not have a choice at this juncture, but they put themselves in that position. Having said that, if we really wanted to make a difference, and change something, it was never going to be through preaching the moral high ground or playing on the patriot card. If we really wanted to derail this, it was only going to be by offering up some alternative to the EU. On that front, we don't have much to offer. Our diaspora is not nearly wealthy and connected enough to stimulate their economy and help rebuild the country from abroad. So in the end we are left with nothing buy preaching to deaf ears.

We tried to convince bojkatiram that they are fighting a losing battle and that if we really want to stop this we need to fight like the minority, but I'm sure you all know what its like trying to deal with Macedonians.

The only way out of this is to attack this as an aggressive nationalist minority, probably taking over the country by force, and trying to steer it in the right direction from there. But given that our strongest reaction to all this was to act stubborn and just stay home, I wouldn't hold your breathe on a hostile takeover.

Tomche Makedonche 09-16-2018 09:05 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;176370][B]Марш „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија” во Скопје[/B]

Со траспарент и беџови „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија”, со македонски и знамиња на ЕУ во Скопје се одржува маршот на поддржувачите на Коалицијата “ЗА европска Македонија”.

URL:
[url]https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/marsh-izlezi-za-evropska-makedonija-vo-skopje[/url]

Со транспарентот „Излези ЗА! европска Македонија” граѓаните ги предводеа премиерот Зоран Заев, претседателот на Собранието Талат Џафери, министрите Никола Димитров, Радмила Шекеринска и Оливер Спасовски, градоначалникот на Скопје Петре Шилегов.

Собирот е пред седиштето на Делегацијата на ЕУ во Македонија, а започна со интонирање на македонската химна и на Одата на радоста.

Во Скопје за маршот организирано со автобуси пристигнаа граѓани од цела Македонија.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/c8L3vv5.jpg[/img]

[B]Video from Канал 5 (youtube)[/B]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pSSxby8mRA[/url]

[U]Update[/U]: [B]ФОТО ГАЛЕРИЈА[/B] - Огромен број на граѓани излегоа на денешниот “Марш ЗА европска Македонија”
[url]https://iportal.mk/makedonija/foto-galerija-ogromen-broj-na-gragjani-izlegoa-na-deneshniot-marsh-za-evropska-makedonija/[/url][/QUOTE]

So what is the name being changed to?, [B]North Macedonia[/B]? Or [B]European Macedonia[/B]?

Does Zaev even know what he’s backing?, has Dimitrov bothered to tell him what name is on the agreement?, WTF is going on here?, not once did he mention North Macedonia, the only thing I heard was European Macedonia, and that’s even what the banners were saying. Can you get anymore misleading than this?

Risto the Great 09-16-2018 09:17 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;176374] the referendum will succeed even without any intimidations or manipulations. [/QUOTE]
They will cite some half arsed conspiracy theories and watch all this go through without a whimper.

Big Bad Sven 09-16-2018 09:19 PM

It appears there is a huge media (propaganda push) but certain ‘musicians’ in FYROM, promoting ‘european macedonia’. These ‘stars’ will be playing at government sponsored concerts around the country.

I find it ironic that some of these ‘musicians’ and ‘stars’ performs classical and patriotic Macedonian folk songs in the past but now have no shame to support zaev and this BS referendum.

Man, I dream of this referendum failing and these turbo folk hacks having their Macedonian citizenship removed and them being chased out of the country and them all fleeing to Belgrade forever.

Names of the traitors:
Violeta Tomovska, Vlado Janeski, Aleksandar Miteski, Gjoko Taneski, Tamara Todeska, Tijana Dapcevic (LOL), Kristina Arnaudova, Beni Shaqiri (LOLOLOLOL) – just to name a ‘few’


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