Macedonian Truth Forum

Macedonian Truth Forum (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/index.php)
-   News and Politics (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
-   -   Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1556)

Bill77 10-22-2018 05:15 PM

[QUOTE=Bill77;177451]Sasho Mijalkov was the Intelligence Chief who allegedly is defecting to the Zaev camp. Mijalkov knows many secrets which i'm sure will no longer become secrets and throw our country into further turmoil. Stay tuned everyone.[/QUOTE]News just through, Aleksandar Nikoloski DPMNE vice president, "blames Mijalkov and a number of lesser VMRO officials of threatening VMRO members of Parliament, pushing them to vote together with the Government majority, to implement the Zaev - Tsipras deal" which is why he was expelled.

Dirty dog. No doubt it was his secrets that gave Zaev ammunition to threatened certain DPMNE members with long prison sentences.

Carlin 10-22-2018 09:30 PM

Debate - Where is DPMNE heading? Каде оди ВМРО-ДПМНЕ?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqqAMai6Z6g[/url]

[I]Update[/I]

Јанчев: Очигледно ВМРО-ДПМНЕ не е подготвено да оди напред

По предлог на Претседателот на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ г-дин Христијан Мицковски на вчерашниот ЦК бев разрешен од функцијата потпретседател.

[B][U]Неоснованите обвинувања[/U] на вчерашната прес-конференција на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ по завршувањето на ЦК беа маска за неспособноста за прифаќање на различни ставови и покажаа дека [U]нема место за неостомисленици[/U] во врвот на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ.[/B]

Овие обвинувања како и симнувањето од функцијата потпретседател нема да ме направат помалку вмровец.

[B]Очигледно ВМРО-ДПМНЕ не е подготвено да оди напред, напротив [U]многу круто и агресивно ги „чисти" оние чии перцепции се насочени кон една таква модерна партија[/U].[/B]

Како Градоначлник на Општина Кавадарци од редовите на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ уште поуспешно ќе ја извршувам оваа функција, а за моето успешно менаџирање со општината сведочи скоро цела една година со голем број реализирани проекти, проекти кои се во тек и средување на општината - изјави сега вече поранешниот потпретседател на партијата и актуелен градоначалник на Кавадарци, Митко Јанчев.

URL:
[url]https://www.24.mk/janchev-ochigledno-vmro-dpmne-ne-e-podgotveno-da-odi-napred[/url]

Vangelovski 10-23-2018 12:21 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;177452]If only Mickoski knew his own stance.[/QUOTE]He'll be kicked out next for contradicting himself.

Stojacanec 10-23-2018 01:33 AM

Trust Zaev to push forward with the name change even though 36% of the country turned out to vote.

Now it is clear how much damage a Yes vote has caused even if minority.

If this goes through, the silent No voters have just as much to blame as the treasonous government.

Phoenix 10-23-2018 04:24 AM

[QUOTE=Stojacanec;177460]Trust Zaev to push forward with the name change even though 36% of the country turned out to vote.

Now it is clear how much damage a Yes vote has caused even if minority.

If this goes through, the silent No voters have just as much to blame as the treasonous government.[/QUOTE]

Even if a NO vote won the day it wouldn't have stopped Zaev doing what he did...he still would've taken it to a vote in the parliament...the architects of the referendum specifically made it non-binding so they could take it to parliament regardless of what the electorate decided.

In a truly functioning democracy, where the law of the land is respected the referendum would've have failed its first test of minimum voter turnout...the referendum would've been buried at this point...

Zaev doesn't represent the Macedonian people...he represents the interests of his western masters.

Karposh 10-23-2018 04:53 AM

I still can't get over the MINA article that Risto linked the other day regarding the bribery claims. If true, it would seem that € 2m is the going rate for selling your soul to the devil among DPNE Members of Parliament. It's often said that the quickest way for a person to get corrupted is for them to enter into politics. Perhaps one of the most famous quotes with regard to politics and corruption was made by the English Historian from the late 1800's, Lord Acton: [I]All power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.[/I]

The temptations are too strong for many. Most people like to think of themselves as incorruptible and untouchable as far as bribes go but the lure of money, riches and the promise of a “good life” is too strong for most. I'd like to think that there's no price in the world that could make me become a Judas, no matter what the situation, but I won't be so bold (or arrogant) as to make such a claim.

The problem is there is no deterrent for traitors these days. There are quite simply no consequences for treachery in the modern and sophisticated world in which we live in. The fact is the human being is a corruptible soul. It's an innate part of being a mortal. We can't help it and it's in our genetic make up. However, when people are aware in the back of their minds that there are consequences for our actions instead of a no-strings-attached reward, they will think twice before entering into a deal with the devil. In the old days most traitors knew what they were getting themselves into when they betrayed the Macedonian Cause – They'd get shot in the head or lynched (if they were lucky) or dismembered alive (if they weren't).

Risto the Great 10-23-2018 07:22 AM

Still loving the Mina report articles. I used to think they were a little crazy, now I see they are the only rational ones in Macedonia. Read their latest on Levica:

[url]http://www.minareport.com/2018/10/23/while-levica-organizes-protests-vmro-sellouts-admit-snake-mijalkov-did-bribe-mps/[/url]

Karposh 10-23-2018 07:45 AM

[QUOTE]But don’t worry, the DPNE did announce in the end they are dedicated to Euro&NATO integration. And no, this isn’t satire, both Mickoski and Nikoloski said this in the end with a straight face. It is as if they have completely lost their mind. This is the same as a rape victim stating in Court she remains dedicated to hooking up with her rapist after the Court proceedings.[/QUOTE]

LOL. Refreshingly original journalistic style. I love it. No BS just telling it as it is. I used to get all my Maco news from Vecer but I'm definitely switching over to MINA Report.

Gocka 10-23-2018 09:15 AM

[quote]Nationalism: is a political, social, and economic system characterized by the promotion of the interests of a particular nation, especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining sovereignty (self-governance) over the homeland. The political ideology of nationalism holds that a nation should govern itself, free from outside interference and is linked to the concept of self-determination. Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared, social characteristics, such as culture and language, religion and politics, and a belief in a common ancestry.

[/quote]

This is the first definition of nationalism you get when you search the term. In this regard Levica is most certainly not against nationalism.

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;177441]The Left is anti-nationalist. They're just against NATO and European Union.

(what follows is google translation)

-Worried about the rise of nationalism after the referendum?

-Of course I'm worried, but I'm optimistic. The abstinence of minorities (especially the citizens of Albanian nationality) shows us that nationalism can be defeated. The fact that there is a world in Greece that stands by our side shows to the people of Macedonia that there is a world of other nationalities that supports its right to self-determination. The VMRO has not won anything politically at this time. Indeed, they did not even boycott the referendum, because, like any bourgeois party, they want to produce political goodwill if the deal is finally accepted and Macedonia joins NATO

[URL="https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnar4.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F10%2F12%2F%25CE%25B3%25CE%25B9%25CF%258C%25CE%25B2%25CE%25B1%25CE%25BD-%25CE%25BA%25CF%2581%25CE%25AC%25CE%25B3%25CE%25B9%25CE%25B5%25CF%2586%25CF%2583%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B9-%25CE%25BB%25CE%25AD%25CE%25B2%25CE%25B9%25CF%2584%25CF%2583%25CE%25B1-%25CE%25B1%25CE%25B9%25CF%2583%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BF%25CE%25B4%25CE%25BF%25CE%25BE%25CE%25BF%2F&edit-text=&act=url"]https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fnar4.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F10%2F12%2F%25CE%25B3%25CE%25B9%25CF%258C%25CE%25B2%25CE%25B1%25CE%25BD-%25CE%25BA%25CF%2581%25CE%25AC%25CE%25B3%25CE%25B9%25CE%25B5%25CF%2586%25CF%2583%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B9-%25CE%25BB%25CE%25AD%25CE%25B2%25CE%25B9%25CF%2584%25CF%2583%25CE%25B1-%25CE%25B1%25CE%25B9%25CF%2583%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BF%25CE%25B4%25CE%25BF%25CE%25BE%25CE%25BF%2F&edit-text=&act=url[/URL]


==[/QUOTE]


Levica is not against nationalism. Modern society has totally bastardized the word nationalism which means nothing more than promoting your national interests. As you said it is now synonymous with chauvinism and xenophobia.

Everything they have said about Macedonia, Macedonian culture and identity is firmly nationalist, and that is not a bad thing.

If you go by the traditional definition of nationalism, then anyone who is not a nationalist is be default a traitor to their nation. If you are not advocating for the interests of your nation (nationalist) then you re are advocating for the interests of some other nation (traitor). Just refer to the definition above: Self determination, sovereignty, self governance, freedom of outside interference, promoting a national identity. If you called for the opposite of those things then what would you be? Yet somehow being a nationalist is a bad thing? :6: I don't understand the world anymore.

[QUOTE=vicsinad;177443]Levica is indeed against nationalism. It seems like nationalism means something different for everyone. To them, nationalism is intertwined with chauvinism, as suggested in their party platform. This aligns neatly with their views against Greece having a say in how Macedonia names itself and Levica's views on self-determination. At the same time, their party platform indicates they are against confining people to nation-states. They want to abolish the ethnic-based political party system in Maceodnia, but support people being free to express their ethnic identity.

I'd say they resemble Macedonian left political movements of the 1930s more than they do modern-day left wing parties. Their site, in English their platform:

[URL="https://levica.mk/english/"]https://levica.mk/english/[/URL]


Right now, Levica has taken some principled positions regarding the constitutional name change and some ideals that are not far from those that many of us have espoused on this forum (again, in reference to the current debacle). Here's the article Amphipolis provided in its entirety:





Let's face it: all countries have left/right wings. I'd rather the left-wing in Macedonia join with Levica than stay with SDS based on what is known about Levica.[/QUOTE]

vicsinad 10-23-2018 09:28 AM

[QUOTE=Gocka;177467]This is the first definition of nationalism you get when you search the term. In this regard Levica is most certainly not against nationalism.


Levica is not against nationalism. Modern society has totally bastardized the word nationalism which means nothing more than promoting your national interests. As you said it is now synonymous with chauvinism and xenophobia.

Everything they have said about Macedonia, Macedonian culture and identity is firmly nationalist, and that is not a bad thing.

If you go by the traditional definition of nationalism, then anyone who is not a nationalist is be default a traitor to their nation. If you are not advocating for the interests of your nation (nationalist) then you re are advocating for the interests of some other nation (traitor). Just refer to the definition above: Self determination, sovereignty, self governance, freedom of outside interference, promoting a national identity. If you called for the opposite of those things then what would you be? Yet somehow being a nationalist is a bad thing? :6: I don't understand the world anymore.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Gocka, but I'm quoting Levica's own platform, which is why I think they've confounded nationalism with chauvinism and they themselves really aren't truly "anti-nationalist" but are anti Serbo and Greko type of nationalism (chauvinism). Still, Levica says they're anti-nationalism, even if what they mean by nationalism is not what we think when we hear the word nationalism. For example, from Levica's platform:

[QUOTE][B]a society freed from the devastating impacts of nationalism[/B], militarism, authoritarianism, conservatism, corruption, discrimination, labour exploitation and class stratification[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE][B]Against nationalism and ethnic divisions! The citizens of Macedonia have been purposefully poisoned with nationalism in order to detract attention from their impoverishment[/B], while a tiny layer of power elites has been accumulating inconceivable wealth. LEVICA will stand in the way of inter-ethnic barriers and tensions and, as a supra-ethnic party, will work towards uniting people regardless of their social status and against dividing people by their ethnicity. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
We stand for economic, social and gender equality and freedom of ethnic, religious and sexual expression, s[B]trongly condemning chauvinism, nationalism and all forms of discrimination.[/B] [/QUOTE]


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Macedonian Truth Organisation