In pics: Antique sarcophagus found by security forces in Alexandria

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    In pics: Antique sarcophagus found by security forces in Alexandria

    URL:


    In pics: Antique sarcophagus found by security forces in Alexandria

    CAIRO – 1 July 2018: A 30-ton archeological sarcophagus was found below a building in Alexandria governorate, Egypt, by the security forces on Sunday.

    Mostafa Waziri, General Secretary of the Supreme Council of Antiquities announced.

    Inspection of the sarcophagus revealed that it is made of black granite of about 265 meters in length and it has a height of 185 cm; the security forces coordinated with the Engineering Department of the Armed Forces, as well as the Tourism police to extract the sarcophagus.

    Ayman Ashmawy Head of the Ancient Egyptian Antiquities Sector said that the tomb was found at a depth of 5 m beneath the surface of the land. It is noted that there is a layer of mortar between the lid and the body of the sarcophagus indicating that it had not been opened since it was closed in antiquity.

    Alexandria is full of ancient Egyptian antiquities, which makes citizens illegally dig to search for these monuments below their buildings.

    In 2015, the security forces arrested three brothers with 35 artifacts in their possession; the brothers were digging below their homes in search for more artifacts.

    URL:


    THIS HUGE EGYPTIAN SARCOPHAGUS IS ABOUT TO BE OPENED AFTER 2,000 YEARS
  • Karposh
    Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 863

    #2
    The article in the second link you provided mentions that the whole sarcophagus weighs about 30 tons and that the lid alone weighs 15 tons. It never fails to amaze me whenever I hear such numbers how they managed to maneuver such massive weights. What did the great civilizations of the past know back then that has forever been lost to us today? What technology did they possess that allowed them to move these massive weights and position them with such precision without the aid of modern machinery such as cranes and/or pneumatic equipment? We always assume we're so much smarter than those who preceded us and yet no one can explain this puzzle to this day. Many theories have been thrown around but, in reality, we have no idea.

    BTW none of the articles mention that it might be Alexander the Great in there. This will be interesting to follow up on in the coming days.

    Comment

    • Gocka
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2012
      • 2306

      #3
      What a coincidence it would be if it were Alexander the former Macedonian, given we are about to renounce our antiquity.

      What the Egyptians were able to accomplish is astounding, but it is also known to us. The reason its hard for us to imagine it is because we do think of ourselves as vastly superior, but also we underestimate the sheer man power they used.

      The average man can lift a 100kg, or .1 tons. So 15 tons requires only a 150 people. Combine that with rollers, and pulleys and its probably 35 people. A 4 wheel pulley reduces the force required to a quarter., increasing the length of travel by 4. So a long rope and a lot of hands go a long way lol. The Egyptians used 1000's of laborers.

      I think of the same thing whenever I'm in Ohrid. I look at the cobblestone roads through the hills, and I think how much freaking effort and machinery we use when we do pavers, in a minuscule, flat area. They had to did, grade, and compact, and then lay millions of individual hand cut stones, up dozens of very steep hills Just amazing.

      Originally posted by Karposh View Post
      The article in the second link you provided mentions that the whole sarcophagus weighs about 30 tons and that the lid alone weighs 15 tons. It never fails to amaze me whenever I hear such numbers how they managed to maneuver such massive weights. What did the great civilizations of the past know back then that has forever been lost to us today? What technology did they possess that allowed them to move these massive weights and position them with such precision without the aid of modern machinery such as cranes and/or pneumatic equipment? We always assume we're so much smarter than those who preceded us and yet no one can explain this puzzle to this day. Many theories have been thrown around but, in reality, we have no idea.

      BTW none of the articles mention that it might be Alexander the Great in there. This will be interesting to follow up on in the coming days.

      Comment

      • Karposh
        Member
        • Aug 2015
        • 863

        #4
        Originally posted by Gocka View Post
        The average man can lift a 100kg, or .1 tons. So 15 tons requires only a 150 people. Combine that with rollers, and pulleys and its probably 35 people. A 4 wheel pulley reduces the force required to a quarter., increasing the length of travel by 4. So a long rope and a lot of hands go a long way lol. The Egyptians used 1000's of laborers.
        For us Gods among men, Gocka, lifting 100kg is no problem at all. But for the mere mortals out there, even lifting 40kg - 50kg would prove an embarrassing struggle.

        Following is a link to an article about the discovery of the largest stone ever carved by human hands, which was found in Lebanon by German archaeologists back in 2014.

        Seeker is now part of The Verge. Stay tuned for new topics, faces, and much more. https://www.theverge.com/


        It measures 19.6 meters in length, 6 meters wide, 5.5 meters in height and weighs an estimated 1,650 tons, making it the biggest stone block from antiquity. Two other massive building blocks, one wighing 1,240 tons and the other 1000 tons were also found nearby.

        The author of the article poses the following question:

        How these monoliths were transported and precisely positioned during the temple construction remains a mystery. Some even argue the block was laid by an unknown earlier culture predating even Alexander the Great, who founded Heliopolis in 334 B.C.
        I remember while I was studying Ancient History back in High School, the explanation given by my teacher back then was the same as yours - lots of men and some kind of sophisticated pulley system. But the fact is they have no idea. All they have are theories.

        I think it's too convenient to say it was just an army of slave labour that managed to move these things around with the added aid of some kind of pulley system. My guess is that any pulley system would have failed catastophically hoisting these massive weights around. And not only that but we can also see for ourselves, from existing archaelogical sites around the world, that they were placed into position with remarkable precision. To me, that would suggest that the engineers and project managers of the time were in total control of these operations and did not simply drop these gigantic monoliths into place haphazardly while dangling them into position, all thanks to the brute strength of numbers from their available labour force that hoisted them up.

        And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't think it was Aliens, levitation or something outlandish like that. I actually believe that they did possess some kind of ancient method for lifting these massive weights which is lost to us now. And, perhaps it did involve some kind of pulley system but not as we know it. I also believe the Ancient Macedonians would have possessed this knowledge too. The Alexandria we all know, and the lesser known Alexandrias which are dispersed throughout Alexander's Empire, would have been built by Macedonians that made use of this ancient technology no doubt.

        Comment

        • Phoenix
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2008
          • 4671

          #5
          Originally posted by Karposh View Post
          For us Gods among men, Gocka, lifting 100kg is no problem at all. But for the mere mortals out there, even lifting 40kg - 50kg would prove an embarrassing struggle.

          Following is a link to an article about the discovery of the largest stone ever carved by human hands, which was found in Lebanon by German archaeologists back in 2014.

          Seeker is now part of The Verge. Stay tuned for new topics, faces, and much more. https://www.theverge.com/


          It measures 19.6 meters in length, 6 meters wide, 5.5 meters in height and weighs an estimated 1,650 tons, making it the biggest stone block from antiquity. Two other massive building blocks, one wighing 1,240 tons and the other 1000 tons were also found nearby.

          The author of the article poses the following question:



          I remember while I was studying Ancient History back in High School, the explanation given by my teacher back then was the same as yours - lots of men and some kind of sophisticated pulley system. But the fact is they have no idea. All they have are theories.

          I think it's too convenient to say it was just an army of slave labour that managed to move these things around with the added aid of some kind of pulley system. My guess is that any pulley system would have failed catastophically hoisting these massive weights around. And not only that but we can also see for ourselves, from existing archaelogical sites around the world, that they were placed into position with remarkable precision. To me, that would suggest that the engineers and project managers of the time were in total control of these operations and did not simply drop these gigantic monoliths into place haphazardly while dangling them into position, all thanks to the brute strength of numbers from their available labour force that hoisted them up.

          And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't think it was Aliens, levitation or something outlandish like that. I actually believe that they did possess some kind of ancient method for lifting these massive weights which is lost to us now. And, perhaps it did involve some kind of pulley system but not as we know it. I also believe the Ancient Macedonians would have possessed this knowledge too. The Alexandria we all know, and the lesser known Alexandrias which are dispersed throughout Alexander's Empire, would have been built by Macedonians that made use of this ancient technology no doubt.
          I've been to Egypt and I asked tour guides what their theories are about these things...the common consensus is simply: man-power and harnessing the power of nature (i.e the Nile River).

          Here's an interesting read -

          Comment

          • Karposh
            Member
            • Aug 2015
            • 863

            #6
            Thanks for that link Phoenix. I'll read through it when I get a chance. It'll be interesting to see what it says.

            Comment

            • Gocka
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2012
              • 2306

              #7
              Lol Gods among men. Trust me most men if they had to can lift close to a 100kg, maybe not over their heads. The method that you use to lift is also important. For example think of a sitting leg press, I'm not a very large guy but I can easily leg press about 350kg. You are thinking of crouching down and trying to lift something up, which is not ideal. A rope over your shoulder utilizing your back and shoulders and your legs, uses your biggest muscles. The threat of death I'm sure was a good motivator too. Even if it's only 50kg then just double the workers in my math, still not astronomical considering how many laborers were available.

              Don't worry I never assumed you meant anything ridiculous like Aliens. A historian wouldn't fully understand this anyway, you need to talk to an engineer. Even today's engineering principals date back to at least the Romans. When I look at any ancient feat I am usually in awe and surprise that they could have done it, not just in terms of size but even detail. When I see hand carved mouldings and ornate details, all I can think about is how did they do that with out a CNC machine. In reality it was a chisel a hammer and 100's of hours carefully chipping away vs about 30 seconds on a computer guided machine.

              The stones weigh what they way, the physics are what they are. The physics of lifting heavy things is all based on the lever principal, even pulleys are levers.

              Today for example, we work in much tighter spaces. We are limited to hauling material on the roads that are available. So trying to replicate what they did is unpractical, not impossible.

              In theory I don't think there is maximum amount of pulleys that can be used. So the same way a 4 to 1 pulley reduces the effort by 4, 10 pulleys or even 20 pulleys could reduce the effort by a factor of equal proportion. The trick is the distance. If you want to lift something by yourself and it weighs 1000kg, if you had a 20 to 1 system and you wanted to lift it 1 meter off the ground, you would have to pull your rope 20 meters. You would experience the effort of lifting only 50kg but you would have to exert that effort over 20 meters instead of lifting straight up 1 meter. Like I said, today that is impractical. Don't forget that the pyramids were in the middle of the desert, They could have had a rope as long as they could make it, and as many people pulling as they could find. Practicality meant nothing to them.

              Its still amazing none the less, and just because they did it manually doesn't mean that it wasn't very well planned and very precise. It took a lifetime to build a pyramid. They would start as soon as they took the throne and hope it was done before they died.

              Originally posted by Karposh View Post
              For us Gods among men, Gocka, lifting 100kg is no problem at all. But for the mere mortals out there, even lifting 40kg - 50kg would prove an embarrassing struggle.

              Following is a link to an article about the discovery of the largest stone ever carved by human hands, which was found in Lebanon by German archaeologists back in 2014.

              Seeker is now part of The Verge. Stay tuned for new topics, faces, and much more. https://www.theverge.com/


              It measures 19.6 meters in length, 6 meters wide, 5.5 meters in height and weighs an estimated 1,650 tons, making it the biggest stone block from antiquity. Two other massive building blocks, one wighing 1,240 tons and the other 1000 tons were also found nearby.

              The author of the article poses the following question:



              I remember while I was studying Ancient History back in High School, the explanation given by my teacher back then was the same as yours - lots of men and some kind of sophisticated pulley system. But the fact is they have no idea. All they have are theories.

              I think it's too convenient to say it was just an army of slave labour that managed to move these things around with the added aid of some kind of pulley system. My guess is that any pulley system would have failed catastophically hoisting these massive weights around. And not only that but we can also see for ourselves, from existing archaelogical sites around the world, that they were placed into position with remarkable precision. To me, that would suggest that the engineers and project managers of the time were in total control of these operations and did not simply drop these gigantic monoliths into place haphazardly while dangling them into position, all thanks to the brute strength of numbers from their available labour force that hoisted them up.

              And, in case you're wondering, no, I don't think it was Aliens, levitation or something outlandish like that. I actually believe that they did possess some kind of ancient method for lifting these massive weights which is lost to us now. And, perhaps it did involve some kind of pulley system but not as we know it. I also believe the Ancient Macedonians would have possessed this knowledge too. The Alexandria we all know, and the lesser known Alexandrias which are dispersed throughout Alexander's Empire, would have been built by Macedonians that made use of this ancient technology no doubt.

              Comment

              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                #8
                Originally posted by Karposh View Post
                The article in the second link you provided mentions that the whole sarcophagus weighs about 30 tons and that the lid alone weighs 15 tons. It never fails to amaze me whenever I hear such numbers how they managed to maneuver such massive weights. What did the great civilizations of the past know back then that has forever been lost to us today? What technology did they possess that allowed them to move these massive weights and position them with such precision without the aid of modern machinery such as cranes and/or pneumatic equipment? We always assume we're so much smarter than those who preceded us and yet no one can explain this puzzle to this day. Many theories have been thrown around but, in reality, we have no idea.

                BTW none of the articles mention that it might be Alexander the Great in there. This will be interesting to follow up on in the coming days.
                Hey Karposh, the sarcophagus is massive. We will have to wait and see.

                The questions you mentioned, What did the great civilizations of the past know back then that has forever been lost to us today? What technology did they possess that allowed them to move these massive weights and position them with such precision without the aid of modern machinery such as cranes and/or pneumatic equipment? are questions that got me interested in history and world civilizations in the first place.

                A couple of books and authors I loved reading when I was a kid were Erich von Däniken (Chariots of the Gods?) and Graham Hancock (Fingerprints of the Gods). I absolutely enjoyed these books. I don't buy their theories but I like Hancock's writing (and talking) style, and I actually couldn't wait to buy and read his "Magicians of the Gods: The Forgotten Wisdom of Earth's Lost Civilisation" - which is a sequel to the "Fingerprints of the Gods".

                Here is for example an article debunking Graham Hancock and his theories (many consider him a pseudoarchaeology writer):
                http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/gr...mets-fragments

                Both von Däniken and Hancock seem like very nice guys even if their theories or books are outlandish. Hancock is without doubt more "believable" than von Däniken.

                By the way, this is what I saw on page 198 of Hancock's book "Magicians of the Gods" about the Kanda geoglyph in Rep. of Macedonia.




                Kanda Geoglyph Ovche Pole


                PS:

                For more than a year the encounter that took place at the Mena House Hotel, Giza Egypt, on 22 April 2015 between famed Egyptologist Dr Zahi Hawass and controversial alternative historian Graham Hancock, had been billed as "the first open debate between the representatives of two completely different versions of history."

                Youtube video - Zahi Hawass vs Graham Hancock on significance of Gobekli Tepe (the 11,600-year-old megalithic site of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey)
                For more than a year the encounter that took place at the Mena House Hotel, Giza Egypt, on 22 April 2015 between famed Egyptologist Dr Zahi Hawass and contro...


                Youtube video - THE MYSTERY OF GÖBEKLI TEPE Graham Hancock
                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
                Last edited by Carlin; 07-16-2018, 10:10 PM.

                Comment

                • Karposh
                  Member
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 863

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                  A couple of books and authors I loved reading when I was a kid were Erich von Däniken (Chariots of the Gods?)...
                  I actually remember watching the documentary on von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" as a kid myself and, unfortunately, I also remember being immediately hooked. I would have been about 10 years old at the time and I regret to say that it had me convinced that Aliens were real and dropping in as they pleased. The documentary even mentioned one of Krali Marko's monasteries in "southern Yugoslavia", which I took to mean Macedonia of course, where a fresco was shown of a person driving a "star chariot". Now that I'm older, I no longer believe in Aliens but in human ingenuity that created all the wonders of the Ancient world.

                  Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                  By the way, this is what I saw on page 198 of Hancock's book "Magicians of the Gods" about the Kanda geoglyph in Rep. of Macedonia.
                  I'm pretty sure there's a thread on that very same Cassiopeia geoglyph on this thread which is located in close proximity to the archaeological site of Bylazora, as it must have sounded like to Greek scribes, and Bela Zora, as it must have been known to the local Paeonian/Macedonian population.

                  Here's a link to a YouTube video I found of an aerial survey of the Cassiopeia geoglyph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9NUHaTOHrQ

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    #10
                    Here's What Archaeologists Found Inside Egypt's Mysterious 2,000-Year-Old Sarcophagus

                    URL:


                    By CASEY QUACKENBUSH

                    A mysterious black sarcophagus discovered in Egypt two weeks ago has been opened by archaeologists, according to Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities, revealing three skeletons and foul-smelling sludge.

                    Reddish-brown sewage water inside the massive 2,000-year-old tomb weighing 27 tons, unearthed at a construction site, gave off a stench so pungent that initial prying efforts had to be abandoned.

                    We found the bones of three people, in what looks like a family burial,” said Mostafa Waziri, secretary-general of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, according to the BBC. “Unfortunately the mummies inside were not in the best condition and only the bones remain.”

                    At almost 6.5 feet high and 10 feet long, the structure is the largest of its kind ever found intact, the BBC reports. The tomb is believed to date back to the early Ptolemaic period, which began in 323 BC after the death of Alexander the Great.

                    According to the Ministry of Antiquities, the three skeletons inside the sarcophagus may have been soldiers. One cracked skull reportedly indicates an arrow injury.

                    Addressing concerns that examining the tomb could unleash a Pharaoh’s curse, Waziri said, “We’ve opened it and, thank God, the world has not fallen into darkness,” the BBC reports.

                    “I was the first to put my whole head inside the sarcophagus… and here I stand before you … I am fine,” he added.

                    The skeletons will be transferred to the Alexandria National Museum for restoration and further study.

                    Comment

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