Where are all the dead Macedonians of WWI?

[Pelagonija]

On my many visits to Bitola I have driven past the well kept French graves though sadly there are no monuments to the many Macedonians who were conscripted into the Bulgarian and Serbian armies and died on the Macedonian front during WWI. I've read that something like %10 or %20 of the 85000 Bulgarian military deaths were Macedonians and unknown number of Macedonians perished in the Serbian army + civilians.

Macedonians glorify WWII though very little is mentioned or known about the tremendous suffering of the Macedonians in WWI.

Why don't we have any monuments, museums or any other statistics dedicated to this national tragedy? I remember thinking to myself look at these young French sons who came and died in Macedonia though at least they have a tombstone.. our sons lay buried somewhere in the planina in unmarked graves.

[Starling]

Search results for monuments are loaded with propaganda. First page had 2 Greek sites and shit about Bulgarians. That French military cemetery you mentioned came up too. I suspect Macedonians from WWI weren't buried as Macedonians or are among non Macedonians due to the policy of the time on complete denial of their existence.

[Amphipolis]

It depends on the Army they had joined. Regarding Greece, if they had joined Serbia they are here in Thessaloniki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitenlik

https://www.google.gr/maps/@40.6543688,22.9333175,639m/data=!3m1!1e3?dcr=0

Bulgarian Prisoners-Of-War are also burried here.

The only mistake of the article is that we don't call it Zeitenlik anymore, and I heard of this name today for the first time in my life. We just call it "Allies Cemetery". If a Serb comes to town, it is a must to visit the Cemetery. Greeks are rather indifferent to it. Sometimes, we attend concerts IN the cemetery.




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[Starling]

Do they habitually disrespect the dead in such a manner or is it because of who's buried there?

[Amphipolis]

Do you mean about the concerts?

[Starling]

Well, I've heard of some cultures holding certain events at cemeteries but in this case it seems to come from not giving a damn about the people buried there. Yes, I mean the concerts.

[Amphipolis]

Well, we certainly don't consider it disrespect but it's rather unusual. There is at least one annual concert there in the Balkan Square Festival. It’s not as solemn as classical music, but the artists are very respectable great composers or singers (I have attended Thanos Mikroutsikos and Dionysis Savvopoulos). The area is very small (in front of the Church) and what’s unusual about these concerts is that there are small speeches before them by authorities (including ecclesiastical ones) as the Cemetery belongs to the Church or a Monastery. I remember the Priests are always not… very brief.

Edit: I found a video. This is how it looks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcimclAoubA

In Greece we always have concerts at Monuments, theater plays IN ancient theaters etc. I have attended Himerini Kolymvites at the Vergina Tomb in the years before the opening of the Museum. I cannot really place WHERE it was. Was it NEXT to the Tomb, IN FRONT OF ΙΤ or ON it? It wasn’t IN it.




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[Solun]

On my many visits to Bitola I have driven past the well kept French graves though sadly there are no monuments to the many Macedonians who were conscripted into the Bulgarian and Serbian armies and died on the Macedonian front during WWI. I've read that something like %10 or %20 of the 85000 Bulgarian military deaths were Macedonians and unknown number of Macedonians perished in the Serbian army + civilians.

Macedonians glorify WWII though very little is mentioned or known about the tremendous suffering of the Macedonians in WWI.

Why don't we have any monuments, museums or any other statistics dedicated to this national tragedy? I remember thinking to myself look at these young French sons who came and died in Macedonia though at least they have a tombstone.. our sons lay buried somewhere in the planina in unmarked graves.

I was pleasantly surprised by how informative the museum in Bitola was with regard to historical information. The building doesn't look like much from the outside but there is plenty inside. Though my visit was around 5 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the information there has not already been amended by the Zaev government as instructed by Athens.

[Solun]

Well, we certainly don't consider it disrespect but it's rather unusual. There is at least one annual concert there in the Balkan Square Festival. It’s not as solemn as classical music, but the artists are very respectable great composers or singers (I have attended Thanos Mikroutsikos and Dionysis Savvopoulos). The area is very small (in front of the Church) and what’s unusual about these concerts is that there are small speeches before them by authorities (including ecclesiastical ones) as the Cemetery belongs to the Church or a Monastery. I remember the Priests are always not… very brief.

In Greece we always have concerts at Monuments, theater plays IN ancient theaters etc. I have attended Himerini Kolymvites at the Vergina Tomb in the years before the opening of the Museum. I cannot really place WHERE it was. Was it NEXT to the Tomb, IN FRONT OF ΙΤ or ON it? It wasn’t IN it.




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Amphi have you ever enjoyed listening to Kostas Novakis in concert? Unless Kostas still lives in his home village/town then you and he would share the same home town.

[Amphipolis]

Amphi have you ever enjoyed listening to Kostas Novakis in concert? Unless Kostas still lives in his home village/town then you and he would share the same home town.

No, I know who he is and what he does but I actually didn't know he gives concerts. I'm familiar with some of your traditional songs because a friend from Skopje had given me a CD with (some sort of) chill-out versions of them. At least, it wasn't the loud, brass sound I expected.

[Solun]

No, I know who he is and what he does but I actually didn't know he gives concerts. I'm familiar with some of your traditional songs because a friend from Skopje had given me a CD with (some sort of) chill-out versions of them. At least, it wasn't the loud, brass sound I expected.

I believe in his case he would take the chance to perform at other traditional concerts/events occurring throughout Northern Greece, rather than solo concerts. Likely not a concert or event at the behest of or in any way related to the church

[Pelagonija]

I was pleasantly surprised by how informative the museum in Bitola was with regard to historical information. The building doesn't look like much from the outside but there is plenty inside. Though my visit was around 5 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the information there has not already been amended by the Zaev government as instructed by Athens.

Solun I was there recently and I absolutely loved it.. very interesting though no specific details of the Macedonians who fought and died in that war, there was alot of French military hardware and uniforms.

[Pelagonija]

It depends on the Army they had joined. Regarding Greece, if they had joined Serbia they are here in Thessaloniki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitenlik

https://www.google.gr/maps/@40.6543688,22.9333175,639m/data=!3m1!1e3?dcr=0

Bulgarian Prisoners-Of-War are also burried here.

The only mistake of the article is that we don't call it Zeitenlik anymore, and I heard of this name today for the first time in my life. We just call it "Allies Cemetery". If a Serb comes to town, it is a must to visit the Cemetery. Greeks are rather indifferent to it. Sometimes, we attend concerts IN the cemetery.




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I've seen that cemetery on a Serbian documentary. Having said that on the Vardar side of Macedonia it seems that our suffering in WWI was completely erased by Serb and communist governments with the exception of novo selo

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novo_Selo_(Novo_Selo)


Btw would you know if there is an online archive of the Serbian cemetery?

[Coleman]

I was pleasantly surprised by how informative the museum in Bitola was with regard to historical information. The building doesn't look like much from the outside but there is plenty inside. Though my visit was around 5 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the information there has not already been amended by the Zaev government as instructed by Athens.

history is written by victors.