Whats happening in Labunista

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  • Big Bad Sven
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1528

    Whats happening in Labunista

    When i was young, the people of Labunista were always seen as Torbeshi, or by a lot of ignorant macedonians, seen as "turks".

    Either way, i got the impression what ever they were, they hated the shiptars.

    On the internet/youtube i found this video

    kuq e zi Amra Ferati labunishte - YouTube

    Havent really been up to date with friends/family in macedonia on the gossip of that part of macedonia. Im assuming today the Torbeshi think they are shiptars?
  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    #2
    1) This story is from back in 2013.

    URL:
    Во струшкото село Лабуништа, ќе биде поставено 25-метарско државно знаме на Албанија. Постаментот и бетонската подлога каде ќе биде поставено знамето се веќе направени. Знамето според информации на А1он, треба да биде поставено деновиве, но се чекало доаѓањето на лидерот на ДПА, Мендух Тачи, кој треба да присуства на свеченост кога знамето ќе биде подигнато. Албанското знаме според кажувања на жители на Лабуништа требало да биде поставено пред изборите, но било одложено за после изборите. Лабуништа е поранешна општина во која 90% од населението се македонски муслимани односно торбеши, но кои во голем дел се членови и активисти на најголемите албански партии ДУИ и ДПА. Izvor/Foto - A1on


    Во струшкото село Лабуништа, ќе биде поставено 25-метарско државно знаме на Албанија. Постаментот и бетонската подлога каде ќе биде поставено знамето се веќе направени.

    Знамето според информации на А1он, треба да биде поставено деновиве, но се чекало доаѓањето на лидерот на ДПА, Мендух Тачи, кој треба да присуства на свеченост кога знамето ќе биде подигнато.

    Албанското знаме според кажувања на жители на Лабуништа требало да биде поставено пред изборите, но било одложено за после изборите. Лабуништа е поранешна општина во која 90% од населението се македонски муслимани односно торбеши, но кои во голем дел се членови и активисти на најголемите албански партии ДУИ и ДПА.


    2) Мурат Лабуништа е контроверзен офицер на албанската монархија на чело со Ахмед Зогу. Тој е Торбеш, односно Македонец со исламска вера, во поново време претставен како Албанец. Роден е во село Лабуништа.

    URL:


    За време на Втората светска војна станува апсолутен владетел на регионот во Струшко познат како Дримкол, на падините на планината Јабланица, населен со мнозинско торбешко население, со центар во село Лабуништа. Бил многу харизматична личност и голем воен стратег. На самиот почеток на војната, се вратил во Лабуништа и го организирал торбешкиот муслимански народ, создал своја војска исклучиво од Торбеши од дримколскиот крај, пред сč лабуништани. Бил член на главната команда на Големоалбанската националистичка организација „Бали Комбетаре“ (Bali Kombetare).

    По доаѓањето во Лабуништа, формирал организација, наречена Чувари на правдата (Rrojtare te drejtesires) и имал блиски односи со Германците. Бил заштитник на Торбешите за време на војната, но исто така, го заштитувал христијанското население и не им дозволувал на Торбешите да се одмаздуваат на христијанското население за злосторствата што ги правела српската војска во ноември 1913 година, кога стрелале шест интелектуалци од Лабуништа, заедно со имамот на местото наречено Краста, а за што постоела желба за освета. Ова го потврдиле и самите живи христијани од тоа време. Бил непобедлив старешина и не дозволил на ниедна војска да влезе на негова територија. Партизаните му нуделе командно место на бригадите во Западна Македонија, но тој категорично ги одбивал, бидејќи бил голем противник на комунизмот и до крај останал лојален на албанскиот крал Ахмед Зогу. Целокупното торбешко население било вклучено во неговата војска.

    Кога партизаните ги зазеле Охрид и Струга на 7-8 ноември 1944, веќе станало јасно дека се ближи крајот и на слободната територија на Торбешите. Меѓутоа, Мурат Лабуништа со војската успеал да се брани дури до 21 ноември водејќи жестоки битки со неколку партизански бригади кои биле пратени во Лабуништа.

    Во борбите посебно се истакнала неговата жена која останала да им чува грб, сč додека неговата војска не се повлекла на територијата на Албанија. Само таа покосила десетици комунистички војници и се борела до смрт со партизаните. Поради штетата која им ја нанел на партизаните, бил нарекуван балистички ѕвер, па така за време на комунизмот никој не смеел да го спомене, за тоа веднаш следувало казна. Сепак, тој останува јунак на овој народ во Дримкол, без разлика дали се нарекува македонски, албански или торбешки.

    Бил убиен во 1946 година од страна на албанските партизани, а по наредба на генерал-штабот на НОБ на Југославија на мостот кај селото Шупензи, близу градот Пешкопеја во денешна Албанија.


    3) From 2016:


    Патронат на училиштето во Лабуништа. А знаат ли Лабуништани кој е Мурат Лабуништи?



    Прославата оваа година беше далеку по скромна од порано, и проследена од помал број на граѓани и ученици кои ги следеа изведбите од учениците од ОУ “Мурат Лабуништи” од Лабуништа.

    Инаку Мурат Лабуништи е роден на 14 август 1909 година во село Лабуништа Струга.

    Мурат Лабуниста е контроверзен офицер на албанската монархија на чело со кралот Ахмед Зогу, Роден е во Лабуништа. Познат колаборатор е на фашистите и балистичките банди.

    За време на втората светска војна станува апсолутен владетел на регионот во Охридско познат како Дримкол на падините на планината Јабланица, населен со мнозинско македонско муслиманско население со центар во Лабуништа. Така да на самиот почеток на војната се вратил во Лабуништа и го организирал албанското население во регионот, создал своја војска составена исклучиво од Албанци и мал дел македонсци муслимани подржувачи на балистичкото движење.

    Мурат Лабуништи – еден од лидерите на БАЛИСТИТЕ во Македонија!

    Мурат Лабуништи бил член на главната команда на големо албанската нацоиналистичка организација БАЛИ КОМБЕТАРЕ(БАЛИСТИ). По доаѓането во Лабуништа и Велешта формирал организација ЧУВАРИ НА ПРАВДАТА (Рројтаре те дрејтесирес) и имал блиски односи со германците. Овај познат Балист бил противник на партизаните и до крај останал верен на балистите. Кога партизаните ги зазеле Охрид и Стругана 7-8 ноември 1944 г., станало јасно дека се ближи крајот и на слободната територија на Балистите. Мурат Лабуништа со своите паравоени единици и балистички банди успеал да се брани дури до 21 ноември водеќи жестоки борби со неколку партизански бригади кои биле пратени во планините над Лабуништа и Велешта. Поради соработката со фашистичкиот окупатор и со балистите, тој е прогласен за народен непријател.

    Мурат Лабуништи сепак на крај загинал од Албанска рака во 1946 г. во заседа од страна на албанските партизани на мостот кај селото Шупензи (Пешкопеја) во Албанија.
    Last edited by Carlin; 06-02-2019, 07:54 AM.

    Comment

    • Gocka
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2012
      • 2306

      #3
      Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
      When i was young, the people of Labunista were always seen as Torbeshi, or by a lot of ignorant macedonians, seen as "turks".

      Either way, i got the impression what ever they were, they hated the shiptars.

      On the internet/youtube i found this video



      Havent really been up to date with friends/family in macedonia on the gossip of that part of macedonia. Im assuming today the Torbeshi think they are shiptars?

      Labunishta is still majority Torbeshi. For what ever reason they vote for Albanian parties. Albanians have made great attempts to win over the Torbeshi due to their shared faith and it has worked for the most part. The Torbeshi were and still are a fickle bunch, but for now their allegiances are with the Albanians. In Labunishta you a lot of intermarriage between Torbeshi and Albanians which is speeding up their Albanization.

      Labunishta is the key to Albanians having political control over Struga. Labunishta used to be its own municipality and voting district due to its huge population. But it was demoted to a village and incorporated into Struga's district. Because the Torbeshi vote Albanian, it swings Struga to the Albanians. If Labunishta is taken out of Struga's district, then Macedonians take control.

      Comment

      • VMRO
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1462

        #4
        Originally posted by Gocka View Post
        Labunishta is still majority Torbeshi. For what ever reason they vote for Albanian parties. Albanians have made great attempts to win over the Torbeshi due to their shared faith and it has worked for the most part. The Torbeshi were and still are a fickle bunch, but for now their allegiances are with the Albanians. In Labunishta you a lot of intermarriage between Torbeshi and Albanians which is speeding up their Albanization.

        Labunishta is the key to Albanians having political control over Struga. Labunishta used to be its own municipality and voting district due to its huge population. But it was demoted to a village and incorporated into Struga's district. Because the Torbeshi vote Albanian, it swings Struga to the Albanians. If Labunishta is taken out of Struga's district, then Macedonians take control.
        I honestly believe the political parties in Macedonia have a deal in place where DPNE and SDS leave the Macedonians with an Islamic faith in the struga region (Labunista/Oktisi) to AA (Formerly DPA). They do not even try win votes here, however the Macedonian with an Islamic religion in Gostivar region are practically all behind DPNE and are patriotic.

        When you you look at it closer you have to ask something is just not right.
        Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

        Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

        Comment

        • Liberator of Makedonija
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1595

          #5
          Originally posted by VMRO View Post
          I honestly believe the political parties in Macedonia have a deal in place where DPNE and SDS leave the Macedonians with an Islamic faith in the struga region (Labunista/Oktisi) to AA (Formerly DPA). They do not even try win votes here, however the Macedonian with an Islamic religion in Gostivar region are practically all behind DPNE and are patriotic.

          When you you look at it closer you have to ask something is just not right.
          I think you may be right. DPNE for years had almost completely ignored Muslim Macedonians, borderline went against them you could say.
          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

          Comment

          • VMRO
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1462

            #6
            Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
            I think you may be right. DPNE for years had almost completely ignored Muslim Macedonians, borderline went against them you could say.
            From what i see, all Macedonian parties ignore the Macedonians with an Islamic faith in Struga yet Gostivar/Debar/Mavrovo/Rostusha Macedonian muslims are engaged actively.
            Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

            Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

            Comment

            • Niko777
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2010
              • 1895

              #7
              In terms of lifestyle, work ethic, and family values, Macedonian muslims feel they have more in common with Albanians than the Christian population in the region.

              Comment

              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                #8
                Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                In terms of lifestyle, work ethic, and family values, Macedonian muslims feel they have more in common with Albanians than the Christian population in the region.
                I'm curious, could you elaborate? What do you mean by lifestyle or work ethic?


                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                The following is not related to Niko's post although in the first paragraph of page 76 it talks about some aspects of conservative life in a typical Torbesh village.

                It comes from C. Deliso's book. It would seem to confirm and explain how the Torbesh villages from Struga region became increasingly Wahhabist/Islamist in the last couple of decades and perhaps longer.



                Last edited by Carlin; 06-04-2019, 10:38 PM.

                Comment

                • Gocka
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 2306

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                  In terms of lifestyle, work ethic, and family values, Macedonian muslims feel they have more in common with Albanians than the Christian population in the region.
                  It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.

                  Originally posted by VMRO View Post
                  From what i see, all Macedonian parties ignore the Macedonians with an Islamic faith in Struga yet Gostivar/Debar/Mavrovo/Rostusha Macedonian muslims are engaged actively.
                  People from Struga seem very religious to me, maybe that has something to do with it? Other than that I have no idea why that is, but it is absolutely the case. Its shocking to be honest, if Macedonian parties in Struga could take a chunk out of the Torbeshi they would probably control Struga.

                  Comment

                  • Liberator of Makedonija
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 1595

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                    It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.
                    Yeah that definitely contributed to it.
                    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      #11
                      According to some Torbeshi (the following video is from 8 years ago), this population numbers between 120,000 and 150,000 in Macedonia:
                      torbes, torbesh, TORBESITE VO USTAVO, TORBESKA DEKLARACIJA, ZIROVNICA, VIDUSE, TREBISTE, VELEBRDO, ROSTUSE, ADZIEVCI, PRISOJNICA, JANCE, SKUDRINJE, KOSOVRASTI, MOGORCE, PAPRADNIK



                      Gocka said:
                      It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.

                      That's how it was in Balkans - group identity was largely based on religious affiliation. In the last couple of centuries this religious-based identity was carried over in the inception & formation of the new nations/nationalities starting with the Greek case (an ethnic Greek was simply an Orthodox Christian, a believer in Christ).

                      Orthodox faith being integral to the Macedonian identity is nothing new or surprising but reflects the same Balkan "pattern". "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" is indeed a new term - ordinary people just called them Torbeshi. (Macedonians paid more attention, socialized and intermarried with fellow Orthodox Vlachs. I remember reading a quote from the Bulgarian P. Slaveykov how in Prilep, in 1860, the Macedonians and Vlachs were as one body - and "if you wanted to separate them you would have to bite into living flesh").

                      The Serbs have the same "problem" nowadays with the population that inhabits the region of Sandžak (let alone in Bosnia if one wants to go in that direction). They never considered them as Serbs. Today (interestingly), the Muslim population of Sandžak largely considers themselves as belonging to the ethnic Bosniak body, which is literally a phenomenon and development that happened in the last 20 or 30 years.

                      The Bosniaks have been rather "active" throughout the area, and have made inroads as far as Macedonia. Today there are many Torbeshi and Gorani (of Kosovo) who consider themselves as ethnic Bosniaks.
                      Last edited by Carlin; 06-06-2019, 11:26 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Niko777
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 1895

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                        I'm curious, could you elaborate? What do you mean by lifestyle or work ethic?
                        I mean they have no issue marrying young, having more than 3 children, and then going to Switzerland working 60 hours a week in factories and saving every euro they make and then building mansions in their villages.

                        The Christian population on the other hand... ne pechalat tolku kako Muslimanite.

                        Comment

                        • Gocka
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 2306

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                          According to some Torbeshi (the following video is from 8 years ago), this population numbers between 120,000 and 150,000 in Macedonia:
                          torbes, torbesh, TORBESITE VO USTAVO, TORBESKA DEKLARACIJA, ZIROVNICA, VIDUSE, TREBISTE, VELEBRDO, ROSTUSE, ADZIEVCI, PRISOJNICA, JANCE, SKUDRINJE, KOSOVRASTI, MOGORCE, PAPRADNIK



                          Gocka said:
                          It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.

                          That's how it was in Balkans - group identity was largely based on religious affiliation. In the last couple of centuries this religious-based identity was carried over in the inception & formation of the new nations/nationalities starting with the Greek case (an ethnic Greek was simply an Orthodox Christian, a believer in Christ).

                          Orthodox faith being integral to the Macedonian identity is nothing new or surprising but reflects the same Balkan "pattern". "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" is indeed a new term - ordinary people just called them Torbeshi. (Macedonians paid more attention, socialized and intermarried with fellow Orthodox Vlachs. I remember reading a quote from the Bulgarian P. Slaveykov how in Prilep, in 1860, the Macedonians and Vlachs were as one body - and "if you wanted to separate them you would have to bite into living flesh").

                          The Serbs have the same "problem" nowadays with the population that inhabits the region of Sandžak (let alone in Bosnia if one wants to go in that direction). They never considered them as Serbs. Today (interestingly), the Muslim population of Sandžak largely considers themselves as belonging to the ethnic Bosniak body, which is literally a phenomenon and development that happened in the last 20 or 30 years.

                          The Bosniaks have been rather "active" throughout the area, and have made inroads as far as Macedonia. Today there are many Torbeshi and Gorani (of Kosovo) who consider themselves as ethnic Bosniaks.
                          Its certainly a broader problem in the Balkans, particularly in the former Yugoslav states. We can thank the Turks for that really. The Greeks are somewhat of an exception to the rule but only because they purged most of their undesirables long ago.

                          Macedonians never forced the Macedonian identity on their cohabitants. On top of the that the Yugoslav identity took root at a critical time. Post Yugoslavia there was an opportunity to at least attempt to incorporate the various peoples in Macedonia into a Macedonian identity but as always we lacked visionary and capable leaders who could have made a difference.

                          I firmly believe between Serbs, Vlachs, Torbeshi, Christian Albanians, and yes even Roma, if the Macedonian identity could have gained just 10%, we would not have as rampant an Albanian problem today. That and taking in Kosovar refugees and we are talking about a 180 degree turn of events.

                          Comment

                          • Gocka
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 2306

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Niko777 View Post
                            I mean they have no issue marrying young, having more than 3 children, and then going to Switzerland working 60 hours a week in factories and saving every euro they make and then building mansions in their villages.

                            The Christian population on the other hand... ne pechalat tolku kako Muslimanite.
                            LOL that's putting it lightly.

                            Christian Macedonians became modern and westernized in all the wrong ways. They no longer live together in large families, they no longer pool resources, or have lots of kids, all of this has played right into the hands of the Albanians. They have the money, the kids, and the unity.

                            Of course Macedonians picked up those western values but not those of morality, rule of law, self governance, and dignity.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              #15
                              Nov 28, 2013

                              Сред најголемото струшко село Лабуништа населено со над 10.000 македонски муслимани, на 20 метарски јарбол беше подигнато албанското знаме.

                              АНКЕТА: (1.Ова е национален празник не е на државата и како национален празник само со албанско знаме овдека; 2. Зошто ние што сме, не сме ние германци, ние сме мак..албанци; 3. На овие моменти долго се чекаше и го доживеавме не само ние туку сите лабуништани и околината се дивиме на ова што ни го донесоаа нашиве луѓе и нашиве политичари.Знаете да зборувате албански? Знам, ама толку толку не знам )

                              URL:
                              Сред најголемото струшко село Лабуништа населено со над 10.000 македонски муслимани, на 20 метарски јарбол беше подигнато албанското знаме.АНКЕТА: (1.Ова е н...
                              Last edited by Carlin; 08-31-2019, 02:02 PM.

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