Medieval Islamic view of Macedonia and the Christian World

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here are some excerpts form the book "Byzantium viewed by the Arabs", Harvard University Press, 2004.

Various texts devoted passages to non-Arab peoples that tended to contain whole series of ethnic stereotypes. The Byzantines were, for instance, accused of miserliness. Al-Jahiz states that "the Rum are miserly, less than the Slavs but more than the Persians." This miserliness is not attributed to a fear of poverty but to habit or an innate flaw in character..........Particularly horrifying, in Arab eyes, was the Byzantine custom of castrating children, especially those destined to be consecrated to the service of the church. Al-Jahiz writes: "The Byzantines are the originators of this custom, which contradicts the spirit of kindness and mercy." The Rum, together with the Saqaliba [Slavs] are the only nations to practice castration, a most odious crime and a sign of their pitiless natures and corrupt hearts. The Byzantines are accused of mutilating innocent and defenseless children, and, still worse, of castrating their own children and selling them. Pg 121-122.

Al-Jahiz was an Afro-Arab scholar from the 9th century AD.

The entire period of Byzantium's Macedonian dynasty (r. A.D 867-1025) was a brilliant era in the political existence of the empire. It was now the turn of the Muslim lands to suffer repeated incursions, accompanied by the looting and devastation. Pg. 165

Under the direction of the Macedonian dynasty - and particularly in the course of the 10th century - the Byzantines took the offensive and effected substantial re-conquests of what had become Muslim territory. With the weakening of the central caliphate and the revival of Byzantium, Muslim hostility became patently obvious. Pg. 225

There are a number of quotes from medieval Arabic and Islamic authors in the book, which I will cite progressively. If anybody has similar sources pertinent to the topic, please share them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is something from the same book regarding the relations between the emperors of late East Rome and the Islamic world:

Mamluk Egypt and Paleologan Byzantium managed to maintain privileged relations into the 15th century. The Byzantines and Mamluks exchanged fifteen embassies at least during the second part of the 13th century and all of the 14th century......The letter of Emperor Manuel II to Sultan al-Nasir Faraj in 1411-1412.....reminds al-Nasir of their then well-established relationship: "Friendship did not cease to reign between your father and our father until the last moment....And as for us, thank God, our friendship has increased and multiplied and is confirmed....until eternity."

So, East Rome under the Macedonian Dynasty re-asserted itself in Europe and Asia, while under the Paleologan Dynasty it was paying homage to sultans.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Same book, pages 180-181:

The onslaught of the Mongols early in the 13th century and the ravages they wrought on the Islamic world constituted another turning point, ushering in a new period distinct from the previous one, as Yaqut (1229) writes: "In the year 1220 there occured events the like of which have not happened since the creation of the heavens and the earth. I refer to the arrival of the Mongols, may God forsake them, from the land of China."

Page 189:

By the 11th century a tradition of depicting Byzantium had been elaborated. The new prevailing conditions - namely, the defeat of the Byzantines at Manzikert, the establishment of the Turks and Crusaders in the Near East, and later on, the Mongol invasions - provoked a certain shift in the image of Byzantium in our sources. The Crusaders became the main target of the later Arabic-Islamic texts, and the tone taken toward Byzantium softened.

Page 190:

The appearance of the Crusaders and the establishment of Crusader states in the Near East revolutionized relations between the Byzantines and their Muslim neighbours.

[Onur]

Amin Maalouf`s book, named "The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes" is a good source to understand Arabic point of view of medieval era vs Christian world.

Maaloof is an Arab christian. He frequently criticizes Turkish rulers of Seljuk empire because of the internal crises between family members of ruling monarchy but it`s quite an objective book anyway.

I found this link in rapidsearch for the e-book. I didn't download it but it should be ok;

http://rapidshare.com/files/310734333/Amin_Maalouf_The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes.part1.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/310737762/Amin_Maalouf_The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes.part2.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/310738335/Amin_Maalouf_The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes.part3

[Soldier of Macedon]

Check the below, it appears that Islamic teaching reject the fact that Jesus was crucified:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/004.qmt.html#004.157

PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

004.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[George S.]

When all is said and done jesus is only recognized in islam as agood teacher & a prophet & not as the son of god.He was just another messenger but mohamed was the last prophet & the last messenger so he carries more credence than jesus according to islam.What is not taught in the islam religion how jesus is described & foretold that god the son would be maifested in man both in old & new testament & that we must believe on him.Jesus is the son of god that has to die for mans sins in order to save mankind and on the third day he will rise.After rising he goes to heaven & sits on the right side of god with god the fatherThis is the living faith that christians hope rests that if we repent from our sins, beleive on him & accept jesus we have salvation.Then you got islam are just teachings of what mohamed wrote a rehash of the old testament of deeds & beleifs supposedly to put the individual right with god.Also we are promised of a second coming of jesus & then the judgement.The thing with the christian beleifs god gives eternal life to those who beleive on his son & acceptance of their saviour jesus.Also with that is a real repentance of their sins which god will forgive them.Jesus taught the gospel which is a message from god with the coming god kingdom in the future.This is where god will rule man with & through jesus christ with love.Those that are chosen will have eternal hapiness,eternal life no pain & suffering & their lives will be fullfilled with knowledge of god.

[Onur]

it appears that Islamic teaching reject the fact that Jesus was crucified

It wasn't the Koran who first rejected the idea of crucifixion. Most of the early christian beliefs like gnostics was also rejecting the idea of crucifixion as well as the concept of trinity. You know what happened to them afterwards. Istanbul/Roman church branded them as heretics, killed them all and burned their books. Some of those so-called heretics, buried their gospels in to the caves or in to the deserts and some of these gospels has been discovered in the last century. I don't know about Orthodox church but Roman catholic church is still extremely cautious about those gospels after two millenia.

Watch these History channel documentary;

YouTube - Banned from the Bible • History Alive • December 21st, 2006

YouTube - Banned from the Bible II • History Alive • October 19th, 2008


As for Koran; Islamic point of view of Jesus and christianity in general is quite in line with gnosticism and other so-called heretic thoughts. This was also the biggest reason of why nearly all formerly arians, bogomils, gnostics has been converted to islam because they had major conflict with Istanbul, Vatican church at that time.

[George S.]

Onur i don't know what the koran says about jesus but i'm lead to beleive that it says that he is just a prophet & a teacher.Does islam rewcognise the new testament with all it's gospels ??in there you will find statements about jesus being the son of god & how he would die on the cross.Also the jews did not beleive that jesus was the son of god or that he was a messenger from god.The jews wanted proof & demanded signs of jesus as to whom he was.Also the bible is mean't to be the written word of god & christianity is based on the bible as that.If we find faults in the bible how much of that discredits the bible as the word of god.
Also has the message of god become lost because of people like gnostics etc deciding what's right & what's wrong.

[Onur]

Islam says that both old and new testaments contains the words of God but it also says that it has been altered by people themselves and doesn't fully reflect the will of God anymore. Koran claims that christian leaders added their own point of view to the gospels by changing some words and by eliminating, erasing some others according to their desire and the Koran is the last testament and there wont be any other holy book or any messenger after Mohammad `till the judgement day, the day when Jesus will resurrect, comeback to life again.

I did google search and found an index for english translation of Koran. You can check the topics from here and read the Koran verses about those;

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/quranindex.html

Here are some verses from Koran about Jesus. As you know Allah is the Arabic word for God and muslims prefer to use that Arabic word, regardless of the translated language of Koran;

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.


When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;


But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him).


They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.


And when Allah will say: O Jesus, son of Mary! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.


O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.


The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!


The Jews call 'Ezra the son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

And these verses are about the death of Jesus and the punishment for the ones who waged war against Jesus and the will of God;

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-


The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

P.S: As you know, i don't believe any religion myself and to me, religious books are no more than a collection of moral laws, stories collected since Sumerians. So, i just regard religions as a strange phenomenons which effects billions of people. I hope some of you wont brand me as a muslim missioner since i posted Koran verses here. I clearly have no intention like that. I don't care about what you believe either.

[George S.]

Onur i'm sure you are familiar with the finding of some beduin shepherds of the dead sea scrolls back in 1948.Translators They translated those scrolls & did a comparison with the st james bible 15 century version. They found the bible was extremely accurate when compared.So the meaning just doesn't dissapear.Remember what jesus said heaven & earth may dissapear but gods words will never dissapear.That's in the new testament.So looking at the bible today i'ts extremely accurate.Men if they changed it by paraprhasing it but they can't change the meaning,the meaning is still there.In terms of religion you have the god given christianity & man made religions ie religion made up by man.
There has to be one GOD & one religion not one god many religions all professing to come to god.There's people not professing anything or who don't beleive in a god what do you think of that.
Religion provides some hope for man for the future.If we just happened & there is no god then it's all a waste of time. People beleive in something it's just the various degrees.Years ago some one said to me about the universe i'll never forget.The universe is proof that god exists & has made the universe.You can't create something by itself it has to have intelligence creating it..
The universe has design & purpose.There is order in the universe look at the way there is diversity & biodiversity.Can anyone looking at the universe honestly say it evolved from nothing & deny that there is agod.?

[Onur]

George, i agree what you say about God. I don't believe that the universe has been created by an explosion and series of coincidences afterwards. I also don't believe that humans evolved from monkeys. So i believe the supreme being who created all of these, doesn't matter how you call it, God, Allah or Tengri in my language.


BUT, i also believe that religious books are just collections of moral laws and stories which got about for centuries among humans and also spread with written texts in ancient times.

You can find most of the stories included in all testaments in ancient Sumerian and Egyptian texts. Also, i recently read a book about ancient Persian religion called Zoroastrianism. Just search some articles about that on the internet. You will be surprised so much about the similarities between ancient Persian religion and all three Abrahamic religions. When i read it, i was totally astonished what i saw. The similarities between religious concepts was so interesting.

[George S.]

good point onur i don't think we are from the monkeys >it seems to be that most religious books are based on moral teachings etc.How god created the universe we have to decide it is in his own way.I agree that God Allah etc its the same god.But some people might have trouble understanding the trinity.God the father God the son & god the holy spirit.But soon to be in the next life called gods kingdom It will be a family of many gods comprised of the human family transposed into gods,God is a family comprised of many.Mans destiny is to live forever & be part/live like/ god by having a holy & rightous character of god this would be mankind's ultimate destiny.There will be billions of people.Where an amazing future is instore for mankind because god cares for mankind.In giving his son to mankind so that it's his love to save mankind.Jesus is the good shepherd & he will lead his people to the water & pastureland.