The Macedonian gov pushing the poor Macedonian over the edge

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  • Jankovska
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1774

    The Macedonian gov pushing the poor Macedonian over the edge

    Most of you are aware that of lately I have become very critical of our gov and have lost faith in their promises and now I see them as bunch of corrupt individuals who care only for their fotelja and not for the Macedonian people. Gruevski is trying to turn our country into a dictatorship where the poor Macedonian citizen is pushed harder and harder.
    Gruevski and Co have come up with the most stupid and absurd ways of taking the last penny from the poor and i am really unhappy to watch all that is happening. I believe we shout not sit around and let them do the same that SDSM did for 15 years. We should not give them 15 years.
    Firstly the figures that our gov publishes are not correct, figures regarding corruption, employment, everything. Those are all made up because looking at the real picture of Macedonia nothing has change one bit, actually it has, the people have more things to pay.
    The same mafijasi from VMRO rule the organisations, companies, businesses, hospitals etc while the poor people still have to pay up. They have changed nothing, they have replaced the greedy SDSM bustards with greedy VMRO bustards.
    The problem must be addressed now, Macedonia can't wait.
    A lot of the TV chanels and papers are owned in one way or another by the gov and everything that gets reported is bliss when actually reality is different. Gruevski has done nothing for the country so far, nothing.
    Our hospitals are falling apart, our education system has become a joke (because profesori se deca na profesori) our zavod, sobranie, banks are places from hell. The goverment has issued a zillion different new laws for which fines are extremly high and even tho i agree most are needed they should be for everyone, not just the poor.
    The law with the rubbish, every citizen that broke it paid a 50 euro fine but not the rich and the opstini run by some VMRO greedy bustard.

    So it's a money making machine. Stop people from throwing anything on the streets but don't provide bins for the rubbish, sooner or later they will have to throw it on the street and voila, we are rich as a gov. Sramota
    Corruption has not changed one bit, mind that I think some of the the VMROvci na vlast sega are worse. Everyone in banks, posta, police i drugi drzavni institucii is employed not because of skills for the job but because they are a relative or themselves a member of the VMRO partija. Once again the gov has failed
    The new gov has decided to go and mesure everyones land once again and incerase the taxes, but it came to a point that if you have your tractor parked in your yard uncovered you'll be fined. You are not allowed to fart into your own back yard without paying in Macedonia.
    Another simply money making law is the one regarding the chimeny, everyone has to now pay some stupid tax for having a chimeny, the more you have the higher the tax.
    The tax for the graves of the dead has gone up by three times at least since they came in power.
    Electricity/gas in Macedonia is stupidly expensive and don't get me started on the phones. The gov has done nothing in these fields to help change the situation.
    Taxes are flying from everywhere and every day people are pushed more and more. Hospitals are 'free' but you have to pay for your own medication i participacija and it turnes out it costs you a fortune. Apteki have lekovi na pozitivna lista but not a single time I went there were they available.
    A packet of sylimarin of 30 in Macedonia costs 300 denari, in the UK a packet of 200 costs £10.
    Water and gubrarina have gone up again but the bins and the rubbish get's taken out once in a month.
    In this new year people will be charged tax on slivi for rakija so probably it will be more expensive to make it than buy it. The gov could not maybe think to use the rakija making citizen and maybe work on exporting, promoting this drink? No why should they, they need money and we should pay up.
    Worse of all is now in Macedonia they have izvrsiteli, the people I call SS soldiers, proper Nazi mentality that go to people's houses and remove items if they were late with any sort of payment. There are no courts, different ways of sorting out a situation, it's done on the spot. no one offers help to those people, no one, they just push them and push them and push them and it;s making me sick. I just can't watch it.
    The car situation is a joke. We have the most expensive cars in Macedonia because Grujo and Co are protecting the saloni which are owned by their people and they are probably getting big bucks from this monopol. Who should care if a tico is 3000 euros? Fuck the Macedonian people.
    Don't get me started on the money wasted on gov programes which are shit and spomenici. we should not sit back and take it> grujo has brainwashed many people but i urge everyone to take the bus< go around eastern macedonia and speak to the normal poor macedonian people and see for yourself
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #2
    You are right Jankovska. How to fix it is the real problem.
    It would appear Macedonia needs a fresh Government that has not got skeletons in its closet. Every time I go there I am reminded of how thriving business disappear/start up with the change in Government. Ridiculous boys clubs.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Jankovska
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1774

      #3
      It is a problem and a solution must be found ASAP. What scares me the most is the more the people feel the pressure the better the EU option becomes, something that out gov preaches every chance they get. Soon people will be giving everything up to join the EU thinking life will be better and easier. The Bulgarians are giving us passports, our gov is pushing us to join EU ( we know the only way ) it's a sad time for Macedonia. Solutions must be found, gov must be held responsable, action must be taken.
      suggestions welcomed

      Comment

      • Warrior
        Member
        • Jan 2010
        • 173

        #4
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        You are right Jankovska. How to fix it is the real problem.
        It would appear Macedonia needs a fresh Government that has not got skeletons in its closet. Every time I go there I am reminded of how thriving business disappear/start up with the change in Government. Ridiculous boys clubs.
        I totally agree!!! I travel there every 2-3 months and its amazing how things are getting worse and worse and the poor citizens are struggling.

        If someone wants to dispute the corruption in Macedonia and that we are not a country at the bottom of the heap in Europe, just go to the Commonweatlh Bank and ask them to make you a cash cheque for a relative in Maco. They will advise you that we are on the corruption list with the likes of Eriterea, Somalia, Mali etc and the only way to send money there is via e-transaction, Western Union or MoneyGram!! But the great thing is on their system we are known as Republic of Macedonia and not that other crappy abbrreviation!! Yipppee
        Welcome to Gruevski paradise and you have people lile Prolet parading crap on here that he is by far the best and things are improving??? Joke, but understandbly the guy has never lived there....Get rid of the corruption first before anythign happens and Gruevski is not the person to do it nor anyone else from within Maceconia. Its a sick society when it come to corruption!!!! Talking about foreign investement, EU and NATO is to pre-occupy people so they dont notice while they are being robbed. ANyways i am looking forward on my next trip to see the new statues, i am sure it will be a sight to remember. Disgrace!!!!

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          #5
          A good topic raised there Jankovska, i can understand where you are coming from as you are worried about your motherland.

          Warrior, Who needs enemies when we have you spitting on us?? You go every 2-3 months yet you say the country is terrible, why do you go if its so bad?? Sram da tie vaka sto zborash.

          We been in hell for 20 years thats the reality now things are slowly changing for the better, we have gone up 32 places i believe on the Corruption list in the past few years we rank higher then the likes of Bosnia,Albania,Kosovo and even Serbia so yes we are improving its not perfect but you cant change 20 years of filth over night, alot of things need to be done and slowly we are getting there. At least this government has admitted to making mistakes and it has admitted that they still have a mountain to climb which is far better then anybody else before them.
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Rogi
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2343

            #6
            It is really tough in Macedonia.

            Those of us who go there on holidays don't see it and those here who have hardly ever been are completely oblivious to the reality of Macedonia's situation.

            I would offer the suggestion that, next time you go to Macedonia, leave your wallet back home in Australia, Canada, USA, etc and see how you fare.

            For people living for so long in such dire economic straits, the Macedonians are really impressive. They survive and still keep a real great sense of humour and hope (albeit somewhat flailing) about them, instead of descending into complete anarchy and hopelessness.

            The problem is, there is no silver bullet to fix the situation in Macedonia and people don't seem to want to accept that it will take some time to get Macedonia out of the situation it is in.

            Just like the fact that there are record number of gamblers in Macedonia, it shows that there needs to be a mind shift, there is no easy and quick fix.

            Comment

            • Prolet
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 5241

              #7
              I would offer the suggestion that, next time you go to Macedonia, leave your wallet back home in Australia, Canada, USA, etc and see how you fare.
              If you leave your paricnik you cant get anything from the milk bar let alone visit another country. Lets face it, without money you wouldnt able to travel to any poor country in the world.
              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

              Comment

              • Jankovska
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 1774

                #8
                Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                It is really tough in Macedonia.

                Those of us who go there on holidays don't see it and those here who have hardly ever been are completely oblivious to the reality of Macedonia's situation.

                I would offer the suggestion that, next time you go to Macedonia, leave your wallet back home in Australia, Canada, USA, etc and see how you fare.

                For people living for so long in such dire economic straits, the Macedonians are really impressive. They survive and still keep a real great sense of humour and hope (albeit somewhat flailing) about them, instead of descending into complete anarchy and hopelessness.

                The problem is, there is no silver bullet to fix the situation in Macedonia and people don't seem to want to accept that it will take some time to get Macedonia out of the situation it is in.

                Just like the fact that there are record number of gamblers in Macedonia, it shows that there needs to be a mind shift, there is no easy and quick fix.
                Exactly my point. Most people from the Diaspora go to Macedonia once a year if that with dolari, evra, funti and it's nice, it's easy, it's even cheap. But talking to the 4 member family that is trying to make it on 6000 denari is the reality. What you and me would spend in an evening they have to make it through the month. It's not easy and I agree it is not going to be fixed overnight. When Gruevski came in the picture I thought to myself, finally someone who actually cares and will bring change. Now I am thinking, omg we made a mistake AGAIN. Now all is left is to either do something for the gov to start behaving or not waste time with them. We should not waste another 15 years on corrupt, dictator who really hasn't got his priority sorted.

                Comment

                • Warrior
                  Member
                  • Jan 2010
                  • 173

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                  A good topic raised there Jankovska, i can understand where you are coming from as you are worried about your motherland.

                  Warrior, Who needs enemies when we have you spitting on us?? You go every 2-3 months yet you say the country is terrible, why do you go if its so bad?? Sram da tie vaka sto zborash.

                  We been in hell for 20 years thats the reality now things are slowly changing for the better, we have gone up 32 places i believe on the Corruption list in the past few years we rank higher then the likes of Bosnia,Albania,Kosovo and even Serbia so yes we are improving its not perfect but you cant change 20 years of filth over night, alot of things need to be done and slowly we are getting there. At least this government has admitted to making mistakes and it has admitted that they still have a mountain to climb which is far better then anybody else before them.

                  In short, because I travel to central Europe for business on regular bases and its convenient to go back to Macedonia to visit families. That is the only thing that makes me go back there!!!

                  I like the excuse, "look nothing has been done for 20 years what do you want us to do"??? Well, in that case it is very easy to show some improvement in a short time, since nothing has been done prior. When you are at the bottom, you can only go up, but Gruevski needs 20 year term to make an improvement, yet he is very quick to make things worse....


                  Your statements are garbage, and i am not embarassed one iota to speak my mind about the corruption there and it is true!!!

                  As I said, please go to the commonwealth bank and send some money to Macedonia via a cash cheque and that will tell you exactly where corruption is. Why do you think there is no foreign investors?

                  About 12 months ago, i took a business partner of mine, to explore an opprtunity for a brick factory in the western part of macedonia. This used to be a thriving factory about 20 years ago, but ever since has been closed, even though the clay is available in the surrounding hills and building expansion has been booming in Europe over the past 15 years. Guess what, when we approached the local mayor and asked him what is the process to re-open the factory, his reply was "Na koja partija vieste clen?". That ended our interest to look any further. Those surveys are all that, for people like you to get excited, but a clever person will go there and see the real stuff!!! Not good....

                  Prolet what did you think of the Miloseski speaking some Bulgarian?? Is he trying to please someone? Reminds me of Crvenkovski when he went to Belgrade, except this guy done it in parliament. Also i see the Ramkov dogovor its to the fullest being implemented, people dont need to learn maco anymore in schools!! I dont think the Gringos in the US have that option!!!

                  I might need to take up some Albanian before i go there next time!!! This is the reality of Macedonia, heading no where very fast!!!

                  Prolet in short you are VMRO stooge, even if the country falls apart you will keep on giving a spin that everything is fine!!!! SAD.

                  Gruevski is a good spin doctor and whilst he is fooling people he will destroy the country. I hope people wake up sooner than later and get rid of that garbage!!!



                  http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=FD9FC ... CA3C260B9A

                  Comment

                  • Warrior
                    Member
                    • Jan 2010
                    • 173

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                    It is really tough in Macedonia.

                    Those of us who go there on holidays don't see it and those here who have hardly ever been are completely oblivious to the reality of Macedonia's situation.

                    I would offer the suggestion that, next time you go to Macedonia, leave your wallet back home in Australia, Canada, USA, etc and see how you fare.

                    For people living for so long in such dire economic straits, the Macedonians are really impressive. They survive and still keep a real great sense of humour and hope (albeit somewhat flailing) about them, instead of descending into complete anarchy and hopelessness.

                    The problem is, there is no silver bullet to fix the situation in Macedonia and people don't seem to want to accept that it will take some time to get Macedonia out of the situation it is in.

                    Just like the fact that there are record number of gamblers in Macedonia, it shows that there needs to be a mind shift, there is no easy and quick fix.
                    The current problems are massive and one of the core element of the problems is corruption. It is not being tackled, it has only been passed on from one onto another person. It has got to the stage that if you are not corrupt there, you will struggle in every sense.

                    Investements, EU, statues etc are smokescreen for the real issue of corruption in that country and some people are profiteering immensly. As they say, if you want a stable house you build strong foundations and not a fancy roof. The Macedonian foundations on the political and economical front are non existent!! So hope is minimal there, corruption prevents it. Once you have good foudation (minimized corruption) then the economy, name dispute and traitors can be dealt with. To this day, i still dont understand why Frchkovski was not prosecuted for working with the Greeks and encouraging a name change through the media. Surely there must be some kind of law that prevents people of working against the country!!! This is another example of the ineptness of the leading party and their integrity. In the US if you work against the interest of the country, you will be getting a one way ticket to Guantanamo Bay. China, Russia are no different.

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #11
                      Warrior, Why would they ask you which political party you are from if you are a foreign investor? It makes no sense at all, you could say you are a Labor or Liberal member what difference would that make?

                      Milososki is a disgrace we knew all along that he is a bugarofil, i have no respect for him at all. However the Prvachinja will all be learning Macedonian as it was confirmed by Educations Minister Todorov.
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Pelister
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2742

                        #12
                        Its tough because a very small handful of politicians are about to sign the historic Macedonian identity away at the stroke of a pen.

                        Ofcourse morale is low. Ofcourse people are pissed off.

                        If Gruevski and Co actually cared for the Macedonian people, they would not be negotiating right now.

                        All of their energy is being sapped by the Macedonians dancing to the tune of the new Greeks and the E.U and NATO. What is worse UMD are encouraging the Macedonians to keep dancing.

                        Meanwhile the Macednoian people, who do not give a fk about negotiating or finding a "solution" are being skrewed over by history once again.

                        Too many pea-brains in the government and UMD speaking for Macedonians, speaking on behalf of Macedonians - and stabbing them in the back, and completely disregarding what they want which is an end to these negatiations !

                        Comment

                        • Prolet
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2009
                          • 5241

                          #13
                          Warrior, Here is the reality in Stari Kraj

                          Груевски успеа подносливо да ја менаџира најтешката економска година во Европа во последните пет децении. Годинава ќе почнат да се ставаат во функција објектите кои тој ги гради. Останаа високите бенефиции, и пари за земјоделието, образованието и здравството... пензиите и платите веќе се покачија, а в година следи ново покачување.... има принпципиелен став во преговорите за името кој го поддржуваат над три четвртини од граѓаните... паднаа визите за Европа... Од големото враќање на Црвенковски во СДСМ не остана ништо. Партијата тоне, дури и повеќе отколку во времето на Бучковски.
                          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                          Comment

                          • Volk
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 894

                            #14
                            Its tough because a very small handful of politicians are about to sign the historic Macedonian identity away at the stroke of a pen.
                            Pelister, for how long have you and Tom sing the song that the government will sign us away? Before every period, hysteria, before NATO admission, before important EU dates...

                            What makes you think they will do it now? Because they are 'negotiating', Ivanov himself said there was no negotiations. Being in the 'talks' does not mean going to capitulate, as degrading and humiliating as they are.

                            The government is smart and is playing the right game, building the economy, building strategic partners, time is on our side.

                            It is painfully obvious that there cannot be a 'compromise' because a such term simply implies our capitulation and destruction.

                            Instead of attacking the greek backed media for putting so much pressure on the government to capitulate, you are attacking them for a problem they directly inherited, which is very complex and has massive implications on our survival.

                            I believe the 'negotiations' will be dropped when we have an advantage, what advantage do we have now?
                            Makedonija vo Srce

                            Comment

                            • Warrior
                              Member
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 173

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                              Warrior, Why would they ask you which political party you are from if you are a foreign investor? It makes no sense at all, you could say you are a Labor or Liberal member what difference would that make?

                              Milososki is a disgrace we knew all along that he is a bugarofil, i have no respect for him at all. However the Prvachinja will all be learning Macedonian as it was confirmed by Educations Minister Todorov.
                              Because i speak fairly good Macedonian and have grown up in that area and i am on many occassions around the place, so that might be the reason the mayor asked.

                              I know lot of things dont make sense to you, becuase you have not expirienced Macedonia fully yet, i must say the bad side, there is also a wonderful side to Macedonia and i think you are seeing Macedonia throught that side only

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