Freising Manuscripts - 9th Century Slavonic

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    Freising Manuscripts - 9th Century Slavonic





    The Freising Manuscripts (also Freising Folia, Freising Fragments, or Freising Monuments; Slovene Brižinski spomeniki, Latin Monumenta Frisingensia) are the first Latin-script continuous text in a Slavic language and the oldest document in Slovene.

    The monuments consisting of three texts in the oldest Slovene dialect were discovered bound into a Latin codex (manuscript book) in Freising, Bavaria. The Slovene name Brižinski spomeniki, literary meaning "The Brižinj Monuments", was coined by the Carinthian Slovene philologist Anton Janežič who Slovenized the German name Freising to Brižinj. In 1803 the manuscript came to the Bavarian State Library in Munich and the Freising Manuscripts were discovered there in 1807.

    Four parchment leaves and a further quarter of a page have been preserved. Linguistic, stylistic and contextual analyses reveal that these are church texts of careful composition and literary form.

    The precise date of the origin of the Freising Manuscripts cannot be exactly determined; the original text was probably written in the 9th century. In this liturgic and homiletic manuscript, three Slovene records were found and this miscellany was probably an episcopal manual (pontificals). The Freising Manuscripts in it were created between 972 and 1093, most likely before 1000. The main support for this dating is the writing, which was used in the centuries after Charlemagne and is named Carolingian minuscule.

    In the 8th century the early medieval Slovene state of Carantania joined the union with Bavaria and during the time of the writing of the two manuscripts (sermons on sin and repentance, a confessional form), Bishop Abraham was active (from 957 to 994) in Freising and also acquired a large estate of land in the Creina province around Škofja Loka (now central Slovenia) and in Carinthia around Lake Wörth (Germ. Wörthersee).
    This is a very interesting text, given that it was produced in Latin letters around the same time as Church Slavonic was with Glagolica letters in Macedonia. Although written in Latin, I would like to transliterate it into English/Latin so it can be easier to read.

    The first word appears to be "Iazze", which corresponds to Macedonian "Jas", also recorded in 19th century Macedonia as "Jaz" or "Jaze". As we know, Macedonian is the only language belonging to the Slavic group that uses this word, most others generally use "Ja" or "Az". In OCS texts, both "Ja" and "Az" are used, I haven't seen "Jaz" thus far, so not sure.

    Here is a glossary of the manuscripts:

    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • makedonin
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1668

    #2
    To stress it, I always say Jazeka, which is common to say from old folks in Stip. I don't know for other regions. Haven't heard the form somewhere else.
    To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #3
      Interesting Makedonin, I guess that would be the same as 'Jaska' in other places.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

      Comment

      • makedonin
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1668

        #4
        Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
        Interesting Makedonin, I guess that would be the same as 'Jaska' in other places.
        Most probably "Jaska" equals mine "Jazeka".
        To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #5
          I remember the early days when researching Macedonian history, where I would read from some idiot Bulgar racist that 'Jas' was created by Tito, lol. I guess they haven't really progressed either way.

          Are you able to make out all the letters in the text? The first couple of lines have the following:

          Iazze haglagolo Zlode*u. Iuzem iego delom. Iuzem iego lepocam.
          * What letter is this? Is it 'ch', as in Zlodechu?
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • makedonin
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1668

            #6
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            * What letter is this? Is it 'ch', as in Zlodechu?
            It appears to me as follow:
            Iazze haglagolo Zlodeiu. Iuzem iego delom. Iuzem iego lepocam.
            Can't tell for sure though.

            I will try to go through when I get home, later.
            To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

            Comment

            • slovenec zrinski
              Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 385

              #7


              This might help. Lots of information on the main page (the link it to a "kritichni prepis" but the are also phonetic ones on the site)..scroll down the page)

              Comment

              • slovenec zrinski
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 385

                #8
                "Iaz ze zaglagolo Zlodeiu"

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                • slovenec zrinski
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 385

                  #9
                  Besides, I in slovenian is jaz...

                  Comment

                  • slovenec zrinski
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 385

                    #10
                    Oops sorry...I just now saw that you are linking to the same site SoM...so nothing new from me then

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #11
                      No problem Zrinski, I was hoping this thread would catch your attention because you would probably understand some of the words easier than we would. And I stand corrected, 'Jaz' is indeed used by Slovenians, I thought it may have been 'Ja' as in Croatian, Serb, etc. So that makes it only Macedonians and Slovenians that use such a variant for 'I'.

                      I have often heard others say that Macedonian and Slovenian share some similarities that are not present in the South Slavic languages, I guess this must be one of them.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • slovenec zrinski
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 385

                        #12
                        Well...to my surprise, when I first saw these manuscripts some months ago (but have of course heard of them before), I realized that I recognise a great deal of the words.
                        It is a revelation to see such a direct link to such a distant past. Especially since scholars since the 19th century have done their best to de-nationalize us.
                        I can understand the confusion and anxiety felt by italians (as I have read anyway) when they had to realize that this indeed is (Pannonian) slovenian and not an "anonymous" all-slavic dialect or church slavonic as it was considered by many for a long time...
                        Just as you I have also seen some smilarities between Slovenian and Macedonian. The official language history is that Church Slavonic left many traces in the Slovenian language, especially in my fathers prekmurjan dialect, but I am not convinced about that.
                        For how long was the Slovenians under influence from Church Slavonic (or rather Macedonian as I prefer to call it)? Long enough to change the local language?

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          #13
                          Not sure Zrinski, it would be good to close it down to an estimate. There is a bit of dispute about the texts themselves, there is no doubt that Macedonian was the basis for the original writings, but at some point Moravian versions appeared. Miklosic claims that the holy scriptures were written in the language of the Pannonian Slavs, but Oblak says that it was in the Macedonian dialect around Salonika. Do you know of these two?

                          Changes that may have resulted from OCS influence in Moravia would be revealed in a comparison between the Freising and OCS manuscripts (both Macedonian and Moravian). In my opinion there must have been some sort of influence in Slavic-speaking Europe as a result of the OCS tongue in religion and education, although to varying degrees in the different regions.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • slovenec zrinski
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 385

                            #14
                            If I understand correctly these manuscripts were found i Freising Bavaria but were intended (and posssibly written)for the Slovenians in Koroska. Two are in a more standardised language (don´t ask me details cause I am no linguist, this is just what I have read) and one is in colloquial slovenian language (I guess the last one is from the manuscript were the parishioners are supposed to "answer" the priest (don´t recall what that is called in a sermon))
                            I don´t really understand why they have to be of Macedonian origin. They were probably written for the people in what is now called Möllthal, Koroska . And I suppose the people there were not mute at that time;o) I guess they spoke the slovenian language back then. Is it totally impossible for the texts to have been translated from latin directly to the language that was spoken by the people they were intended for? Why go thru Macedonian?
                            Besides, the part of Koroska where these were intended for was not part of Greater Moravia.

                            I am really a total amateur about this and I guess I have to brush up very much on my knowledge of history

                            Comment

                            • slovenec zrinski
                              Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 385

                              #15
                              To get more "scientific" answers you should probably discuss this with Tomaz the Slovak

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