Police helicopter crashes in Macedonia, killing 4 (7/11//14)

[Gocka]

http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Police-helicopter-crashes-in-Macedonia-5614336.php

SKOPJE, Macedonia (AP) — A Macedonian police helicopter crashed overnight during a training flight near the southern town of Strumica, killing all four people on board, authorities said Friday.

Interior Minister Gordana Jankulovska said the four crew members were all pilots, each with more than 30 years of flight experience. They were on a night training flight when the MI-17B helicopter hit a 120-meter (394-foot) -high television transmitter near Strumica, about 190 kilometers (120 miles) south of the capital Skopje.

"This is the one of the saddest and darkest days in the Interior Ministry's history," a tearful Jankulovska told reporters in the capital, Skopje.

She said the helicopter, produced in 2008, was serviced regularly and the pilots had not reported any technical problems. Two voice recorders were recovered and were expected to provide more details about the accident, Jankulovska added.

Local TV Nova, quoting eyewitnesses, said the helicopter was circling around with no lights and the pilot was trying to land when it hit the transmitter, crashed and exploded.

Helicopter debris could be seen strewn around the scene, extending about 50 meters (yards) from the crash site.

[Bill77]

How can this happen????
Seriously.......no lights????

[Alex_MK]

R.I.P

It's been a horrible month for Macedonia

[Volokin]

RIP

[George S.]

safety should have been of paramount concern.Why fly with no lights???Wasn't there control tower to warn them??Didn't they know the area??RIP.They should make sure see that it shouldn't happen again.hey shouldn't happen again.

[Phoenix]

safety should have been of paramount concern.Why fly with no lights???Wasn't there control tower to warn them??Didn't they know the area??RIP.They should make sure see that it shouldn't happen again.hey shouldn't happen again.

Not sure what to make of the "no lights" speculation considering it was reported that the crew were undergoing a "training exercise"...?

Aircraft don't generally fly around with lights on (except navigational lighting that warns other aircraft of their presence), in the dark.
If it was indeed a night time training exercise, perhaps the crew were practicing night flying drills in total concealment, that are sometimes necessary in covert style operations?

Perhaps the 'eyewitness' accounts of no lights are actually in relation to the transmitter tower and whether it's navigation warning lights were activated or in service?

Any activity conducted at night has it's unique issues and problems, often termed 'situational awareness', this is of particular issue to even the most experienced pilots when flying at night.

Sadly, like so many of these types of tragedies the error will be of a human nature, possibly pilot error, failure to follow instruction or safety procedures, poorly maintained equipment (aircraft or in this case the transmitter tower itself) or some other human input.

Bog da gi prosti.

[George S.]

if the tower had lights they should have been on for navigational safety.We will have to wait for the voice recorders activation as to anything uncovered.We could guess as to the real reason but we have to wait.In the mean time bog da gi prostip RIP.Its a shame to lkose good people like that.Phoenix I'm in agreement with you mate.N to life and limb,ight manuvarability in safety has come home many crashes with black hawk helicopters.Exercises at night in total darkness is fraught with many dangers.One accident is one too many.If they are doing it why do it in populated areas next to towers.
We 'll just never know the full story.We can only speculate.

[Phoenix]

...Exercises at night in total darkness is fraught with many dangers.One accident is one too many.If they are doing it why do it in populated areas next to towers.
We 'll just never know the full story.We can only speculate.

GS,

All exercises are undertaken to replicate real world conditions, often those simulated drills will try to cover worst case scenarios, that includes night flying in populated areas, in and around population centres, buildings and other urban infrastructure.
Similar exercises are happening all over the world by police departments, law enforcement agencies and the military, mostly it all goes to script and is therefor unnoticed, it makes the news when accidents occur and it sometimes happens to the most elite forces.

I witnessed 2 Macedonian MI-24 gunships skirting the periphery of Lake Ohrid flying very fast, very low and in tight formation in the middle of the afternoon at the peak of the summer season...it happens everywhere...

Next time you're woken up in the middle of the night by the police chopper flying overhead, chances are it's just another exercise...

I'm sure the investigators will get to the bottom of it fairly quickly (pilot error), it certainly won't be in the MH370 basket of the unresolved...the challenge will be to convince most Macedonian's that it wasn't 'them' again trying to fuck us over...in the true tradition of the eternal victims...

[Vangelovski]

There's also the possibility, however very slight of course, that being Macedonia, no one bothered to do any maintenance on the chopper and eventually physics did the rest.

[George S.]

Hey phoenix I forgot to mention that in the speculation of the chopper crash there is such a thing as scheduled maintenance what is Macedonian attitude to the practice of schedulred maintenance.Is it something that is ignored simply doing cursory checks???Or is it even pilot error??we are just guessing until such time as there is an announcement to the right information about the crash.

[Bill77]

Phoenix

What you said in your response to GS makes sense that's if it was a training exercise.

I like George was bewildered by this flying with out lights only because the report I read was completely diferent to the one in post 1.

The report I read states the 4 deceased were all members of the border police of the Macedonian Interior Ministry. Also that Local media reported that the police helicopter was coming back from a regular change of border policemen and had mechanical problems before hitting a transmitter tower and bursting into flames. In the initial reports, Nothing was mentioned about training. And a whitness specifically said the Helicopter had no lights on. I eventually chased up this news source which was the first to come out. Please find it below.

4 killed in Macedonia helicopter crash
Jul 11,2014
SKOPJE, July 11 (Xinhua) -- Four policemen were killed in a helicopter crash on Thursday night in eastern Macedonia, the Interior Ministry confirmed on Friday.

The helicopter crashed near the city of Strumica, some 170 kilometers southeast of capital Skopje. The four deceased were the only people aboard, and all were members of the border police of the Macedonian Interior Ministry.

"It is a police helicopter and there are victims. First we will inform the families and after the investigation is over we will issue official information," Macedonian Interior Ministry spokesperson Ivo Kotevski said.

Local media reported that the police helicopter was coming back from a regular change of border policemen and had mechanical problems before hitting a transmitter tower and bursting into flames.

Witnesses said that the helicopter looked like it was trying to find a place to land.

"We saw the helicopter circling around. There were no lights on it and it looked like it is trying to land," one citizen told local media.

This is second helicopter crash in Macedonia in recent years. In January 2008 a Macedonian army helicopter crashed onto the hills near Skopje. Eleven soldiers and officers were killed in that accident.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=229250

[Phoenix]

There's also the possibility, however very slight of course, that being Macedonia, no one bothered to do any maintenance on the chopper and eventually physics did the rest.

Air transport is an incredibly safe practice, when procedures are followed, there are layers upon layers of built-in safety systems that are well documented...a single failure or negligence in any one system or process can cause catastrophe...correct and scheduled maintenance by suitably qualified personnel is critical to safe operations and you'd have to seriously doubt Macedonia's ability to guarantee this...

[Phoenix]

Phoenix

What you said in your response to GS makes sense that's if it was a training exercise.

I like George was bewildered by this flying with out lights only because the report I read was completely diferent to the one in post 1.

The report I read states the 4 deceased were all members of the border police of the Macedonian Interior Ministry. Also that Local media reported that the police helicopter was coming back from a regular change of border policemen and had mechanical problems before hitting a transmitter tower and bursting into flames. In the initial reports, Nothing was mentioned about training. And a whitness specifically said the Helicopter had no lights on. I eventually chased up this news source which was the first to come out. Please find it below.

Thanks Bill,

I'm responding purely based on the report in post #1.

[George S.]

yeah thanks Bill for clearing that up I think a lot of countries seem to be skipping their scheduled servicing their aircraft,If people knew this they wouldn't be flying their aircraft.Its all due to costs.Some countries are notorious for not servicing aircraft that's why they have accidents that they often blame the pilot error.They know full well that is not totally pilot arror.I have pity on the families who have to put up with crap from official circles as to the real reason for accidents.At this stage I'm just speculating until official information comes out.At times it leaves one in the cold.I have got a neighbour who is a pilot with about 18,000 hours of flying he just shakes his head that the fact is lack off scheduled maintenance is a cause of cmajor oncern some countries can even doctor their figures .Lets hope that this case is not all that bad and there is some logical explanation as to an accident being just an accident.