Gerbs (Greeks and Serbs)

[Risto the Great]

I still think they should be referred to as FYROMIANS!

I don't agree. These people may or may not not have embraced the ventilator and/or other capitulations since independence. They do however embrace the Serbs in an unhealthy fashion. It has to be a Yugoslavian thing. They must enjoy the pats on the head from their "big brothers". Thank goodness some (real) Macedonians still exist (as evidenced on the link from Egejska Makedonia).

[Momce Makedonce]

I don't agree. These people may or may not not have embraced the ventilator and/or other capitulations since independence. They do however embrace the Serbs in an unhealthy fashion. It has to be a Yugoslavian thing. They must enjoy the pats on the head from their "big brothers". Thank goodness some (real) Macedonians still exist (as evidenced on the link from Egejska Makedonia).

It is definitely a Yugoslavian thing Risto. I have even seen a Macedonian who has Tito as one of his inspirational people on facebook.

[Gocka]

Its definitely a Yugo thing.

My father was president of the only Macedonian social club in the New Jersey area and he brought about a few changes that made him unpopular with a lot of people.

He banned Serbian music and TV, which was very common up until before him, many of the members were not happy about that. At one point there was a picture of Tito, which founds its way in the garbage, people were not happy about that either. One guy even kept a picture of Tito in his wallet, my father would provoke him in the funniest way. He would go to him and say "Hey did you hear? They are saying that it was revealed Tito was gay" The guy would flip out, he took it as if you were speaking about his own mother.

There was a Serbian guy that used to come to the club, he would always where a hat with the Serbian flag. My father asked him to remove it, he told him that this is a Macedonian social club, and you are welcome to be here if you like but I cant let you parade around in that hat because it sends the wrong message. Well that incident turned into a fist fight, but not with the Serbian guy, with a Macedonian guy who took exception to the Serbian being asked to remove the Serbian flag hat.

I think it was shortly after that incident that my father resigned because he couldn't take it anymore. My uncle took over afterwords and barely made it a month because of the same issues.

They are a special breed of idiot, they are more Yuoslovenec then Fyromec, most of them were that way before Fyrom even existed.

[Big Bad Sven]

Ja slushajte vie srbomani - YouTube

[George S.]

why have the Macedonians on the Vardar side embraced the serbs so readily.Why think about it the Macedonians were brainwashed or indoctrinated by heavy duty serb propaganda .We have embraced the serb Yugoslav brotherhoood telling Macedonians to take umbrage of that.The supposed Yugoslav or slav brotherhood is supposed to be one where Macedonians can exist like a brother hood.Of course this is all too false to be true .Macedonian s were indoctrinated in all spheres be they music etc.The Macedonians have a glorious past as Macedonians.

[Momce Makedonce]

Why are Serbians so strong with their pro-Yugo stance and ideology? We say Macedonians who are pro-Yugo feel inferior for being Macedonian, and therefore want to attach themselves to something they perceive to be bigger, better, more respected e.t.c. So then what about Serbians? Would it be the same case with them ? Wanting to attach themselves to something they think is bigger and more powerful? They come across as being patriotic people ( Serbia this and Serbia that ) but I would say generally speaking majority of them would sell out Serbia if they were given a chance to form another stupid Yugoslavia. So would these Serbians who are pro-Yugo just be in the same boat as pro-Yugo Macedonians? Wanting an attachment to something more powerful, bigger and respected because they feel inferior for being Serbian? So they would sell out their Serbian identity for a fabricated Yugoslavian ideology and identity?

The difference is pro-Yugo Serbians I believe make up a majority of their people, whereas for Macedonians this view and belief is in the minority ( I think ).

[Risto the Great]

I think it can't be compared. The Serbs for all intents and purposes were the leaders of the federation. Macedonians who still harbour desires for Yugoslavia are just sheep who couldn't get enough human rights deprivation.

[Gocka]

The Serbs that want Yugoslavia, are very similar to Macedonians in my opinion, let me explain.

I dont think Macedonians today who long for Yugoslavia do so because they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. From my experience the ones who want Yugo, are older generations, with communist tendencies. They long for Yugo because during that time many many Macedonians got paid every month to do absolutely nothing, many people didn't even show up to work but still got paid handsomely. The salaries that they received were very good in comparison to their expenses. Many people went on vacations throughout Europe, bought very nice amenities, times were good for a lot of people back then. They lived very easy and care free lives, but with much more money then they do now. Why do you think Macedonians are so unproductive? They still have not come to terms that Yugoslavia is gone and that it was unsustainable. No country on earth can pay people to no go and do anything, and pay them way above the odds. Back then people had better pay then a lot of western European countries, but it was all done on borrowed money, and it all collapsed. Most Macedonians are not educated enough to understand that it was not sustainable and that it can never come back, they still think it can be like the good old days, and they attribute the good old days to Yugoslavia. Macedonia was very poor before Yugo, my grandmother still bathed and washed clothes in the river after WW2, then Tito and brought electricity and water and many people never forget that. I have an uncle who is a total Yugo communist, he votes for CDCM he wish Yugo would come back, if you ask him why the above is the answer you will get, they dont love Serbs or want to be a part of a bigger state, they just loved the free handouts and easy life that came with it.

Serbs are the same in that respect they want the good old days back where Serbia was in charge and was wealthy and growing (artificially.)

The ones who want to be part of something larger is younger Macedonians today, they idolize Serb turbo folk and tennis stars because our own nation has virtually none. Young people need someone to look up to, something that resonates with them, and music and sport resonate with them. Their own identity is in question, that is a large psychological burden to carry at a young impressionable age when most are trying to figure out who they really are. So they cling to the first thing with a pulse, and because Serbia's proximity, Yugoslav past, similar enough culture, and most importantly many Macedonians see them as the less of all evils, they are simply with less blood on their hands then greeks and bulgars.

Don't confuse today's turbo folk Serbia big brother mentality with ex yugo communist mentality, they are not really very connected, just coincidence.

[Momce Makedonce]

I think it can't be compared. The Serbs for all intents and purposes were the leaders of the federation. Macedonians who still harbour desires for Yugoslavia are just sheep who couldn't get enough human rights deprivation.

I understand that Risto. But why is it that they would gladly hang up the boots with Serbia in order to form a Yugoslavia.

I dont know maybe its just my mentality. For example I used to have an old atlas that had Yugoslavia in it. I didnt like it because it didnt say Macedonia on it and it was just classed as Yugoslavia. This was when I was young as well. I just hated it because it didnt say Macedonia and I had never identified as a Yugo.

For Serbs it is different as it seems they do not care about this as long as they are in control of Yugoslavia. For example they do not care that the Serbian name is gone and replaced with Yugoslavia.

Not sure if I am making any sense haha

[Momce Makedonce]

The Serbs that want Yugoslavia, are very similar to Macedonians in my opinion, let me explain.

I dont think Macedonians today who long for Yugoslavia do so because they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. From my experience the ones who want Yugo, are older generations, with communist tendencies. They long for Yugo because during that time many many Macedonians got paid every month to do absolutely nothing, many people didn't even show up to work but still got paid handsomely. The salaries that they received were very good in comparison to their expenses. Many people went on vacations throughout Europe, bought very nice amenities, times were good for a lot of people back then. They lived very easy and care free lives, but with much more money then they do now. Why do you think Macedonians are so unproductive? They still have not come to terms that Yugoslavia is gone and that it was unsustainable. No country on earth can pay people to no go and do anything, and pay them way above the odds. Back then people had better pay then a lot of western European countries, but it was all done on borrowed money, and it all collapsed. Most Macedonians are not educated enough to understand that it was not sustainable and that it can never come back, they still think it can be like the good old days, and they attribute the good old days to Yugoslavia. Macedonia was very poor before Yugo, my grandmother still bathed and washed clothes in the river after WW2, then Tito and brought electricity and water and many people never forget that. I have an uncle who is a total Yugo communist, he votes for CDCM he wish Yugo would come back, if you ask him why the above is the answer you will get, they dont love Serbs or want to be a part of a bigger state, they just loved the free handouts and easy life that came with it.

Serbs are the same in that respect they want the good old days back where Serbia was in charge and was wealthy and growing (artificially.)

The ones who want to be part of something larger is younger Macedonians today, they idolize Serb turbo folk and tennis stars because our own nation has virtually none. Young people need someone to look up to, something that resonates with them, and music and sport resonate with them. Their own identity is in question, that is a large psychological burden to carry at a young impressionable age when most are trying to figure out who they really are. So they cling to the first thing with a pulse, and because Serbia's proximity, Yugoslav past, similar enough culture, and most importantly many Macedonians see them as the less of all evils, they are simply with less blood on their hands then greeks and bulgars.

Don't confuse today's turbo folk Serbia big brother mentality with ex yugo communist mentality, they are not really very connected, just coincidence.

Gocka I think in some cases their can be a mixture of both. I have come across this first hand. A Macedonian who thinks of Serbians as "besties" and at the same time wants a Yugoslavia because " it was the best" obviously alluding to power and respect ( Successful basketball team and other shit). This guy is very confused when it comes to Macedonia though. Want to hear something funny about him? He says Alexander the Great is Macedonian, but then goes on to say that we are Slavs because we were in Yugoslavia. So he pretty much contradicted himself and it all comes down to the fact that he knows jack shit about Macedonian history and listens to what others say and not his own.

Yes they do see them as the lesser of evils. However some dont even see them as evil at all. In their mind Serbians have always just been that nice and friendly northern neighbour. It comes down to the same thing. Not showing any interest in learning about where you are from and who you are.

Your point about Serbia having famous singers and sports stars is also true and to me it is just sad that many young Macedonians want to connect themselves to something else for those reasons.

Macedonians who want back Yugoslavia for its easiness and relaxing life suits the mentality alot of Macedonians have. And lets face it who doesent want that type of life if you can have it? But do these people realise that with Yugoslavia comes its ideology and identity? I absolutely hate when somebody refers to me as a Yugoslavian because that is not what I am. By wanting Yugoslavia doesent that mean you are supporting the ideology and historical views of Yugoslavia? Then again if people are receiving this relaxing and easy life in return I suppose their would be many who simply dont care and sacrifice their actual identity for this fabricated one. In return they get a better life and for many this might be enough to sacrifice being a Macedonian.

[Stojacanec]

The old Yugo days meant Tito was at the helm until his death in 1980. Tito had strong connections with Russia and even America. People have to understand you can't compare these days to the old Yugo days.

Nations poured money into the former Yugoslavia, all in the name of building a strong federation in what was a Balkan Tinderbox

That’s why everyone had money and didn't have to work hard for it

These days they don't hand over money just like that unless it is under strict loan conditions.

It doesn't matter who unites today, the funding of post WWII will not be repeated.

Having said that, (and I knew before the event) a Yugoslavia would not function under a Serbian president. People loved Tito. He had the natural ability to make everyone feel like they were all equal.

Tito was the best and only candidate for the Yugoslav experiment.

[Big Bad Sven]

Why are Serbians so strong with their pro-Yugo stance and ideology? We say Macedonians who are pro-Yugo feel inferior for being Macedonian, and therefore want to attach themselves to something they perceive to be bigger, better, more respected e.t.c. So then what about Serbians? Would it be the same case with them ? Wanting to attach themselves to something they think is bigger and more powerful? They come across as being patriotic people ( Serbia this and Serbia that ) but I would say generally speaking majority of them would sell out Serbia if they were given a chance to form another stupid Yugoslavia. So would these Serbians who are pro-Yugo just be in the same boat as pro-Yugo Macedonians? Wanting an attachment to something more powerful, bigger and respected because they feel inferior for being Serbian? So they would sell out their Serbian identity for a fabricated Yugoslavian ideology and identity?

The difference is pro-Yugo Serbians I believe make up a majority of their people, whereas for Macedonians this view and belief is in the minority ( I think ).

Yugoslavia was simply a vehicle for serbian expansionism and colonialism, it was essentially a modern day serbian kingdom.

Yugoslavia meant that serbia could control and have access to bosnia, the adriatic coast and resources from slovenia and macedonia.

The main language of yugoslavia was serbo-croation not macedonian.

The serbs ran Yugoslavia, they were the majority of the army and the other 'yugoslavs' feared them.

And keep in mind serbs long for the first yugoslavia, which was in the period after WW1 and before WW2, this was when they had total control. They hated the second yugoslavia because they 'lost' dalmatia, bosnia, montenegro, kosovo and macedonia

Why do you think its only the serbs who get overly emotional about yugoslavia being destroyed and gone?

The serbs would have no issue of having yugoslavia again because it will mean the serbian kingdom will be reborn and greater serbia will be into full motion again. The pathetic macedonians would also love this because they want a 'protector' and are too weak and useless to run their own country and protect their own country. Plus macedonians have some weird fetish and fascination with all things serbian. Its quite bizarre

[Big Bad Sven]

I understand that Risto. But why is it that they would gladly hang up the boots with Serbia in order to form a Yugoslavia.

I dont know maybe its just my mentality. For example I used to have an old atlas that had Yugoslavia in it. I didnt like it because it didnt say Macedonia on it and it was just classed as Yugoslavia. This was when I was young as well. I just hated it because it didnt say Macedonia and I had never identified as a Yugo.

For Serbs it is different as it seems they do not care about this as long as they are in control of Yugoslavia. For example they do not care that the Serbian name is gone and replaced with Yugoslavia.

Not sure if I am making any sense haha

The thing is under Yugoslavia the serbian name didnt disappear. There was still the serbian state, the people were called serbian, the official language was called serbo-croation and unofficially everyone knew Yugoslaiva was greater serbia/ a modern serbian kingdom.

What was macedonia's status? Before Tito macedonia was called Vardaska Banovina, the people were southern serbs, our names were changed, forced to speak another language, terrorized etc

Yugoslavia almost doubled serbia's territories and gave it access to the sea and alps. Macedonia dissapeared and almost assimilated into serbians

[Big Bad Sven]

Do you think at this serbian-greek cultural event the serbs will demonstrate this ancient serbian tradition?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIN8Cm5rYXY&bpctr=1383912590&bpctr=1384615511&bpctr=1384615515&bpctr=1384615524

What will macedonians do? Would they pretend that macedonians also did these activities in the past and thus be another great example of serbians and macedonians being so similar?
Will macedonian men start having sex with the ground?

[Gocka]

BBS, exactly, that is why the Serbs want Yugo back, it was the good old days, it was also the good old days for Macedonians of that time. Someone else took on administrative tasks of the state, Albanians were kept in check (as was anyone else who overstepped), money flowed like water for no reason. Many people lived through what they considered paradise, now they miss it and want to work and be responsible for their own lives.

Like I said the younger generation dont know those times they dont know what it was like thus they cant long for something they have never witnessed. What they want is much more psychologically rooted. They want recognition, to feel they are part of something, they want role models, they want something to be proud of. The only reason they cling to Serbia is because of the old communist contingent constantly blabbing about how we were all brothers, so they feel like Oh well they must have not been so bad then, unlike those greeks and bulgars. I am confident if the Serbs took a more direct anti Macedonian approach like the greeks, you would have very few young people clinging to them.

For the old giezers there is no hope, you will never convince them. For the younger crowd the solution is two fold, 1. you have to show them that Serbia is just as Anti Macedonian as anyone else, and 2. that they can and should be proud of Macedonia, and if they are not then strive to make Macedonia something to be proud of, strive to be a role model for other Macedonians.