Kevin Rudd Prime Minister Again

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  • lavce pelagonski
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2009
    • 1993

    #16
    La trobe uni has already lost 17 mill in its science department to the Gonski reform thank Julia for destroying our future
    Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле Страшниот Чакаларов гркоубиец и крвожеден комитаџија.

    Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море. Васил Чакаларов

    Comment

    • Phoenix
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 4671

      #17
      Originally posted by lavce pelagonski View Post
      La trobe uni has already lost 17 mill in its science department to the Gonski reform thank Julia for destroying our future
      How have you already lost 17 million when Victoria hasn't even signed up to it yet?

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8533

        #18
        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
        How have you already lost 17 million when Victoria hasn't even signed up to it yet?
        The Australian Government has already withdrawn funding from universities in order to partially pay for Gonski. Check the budget, read the news.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • EgejskaMakedonia
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2010
          • 1665

          #19
          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          Australia cannot thank Gillard for anything other than destroying the nations wealth. Australia is now only a few years behind the rest of them. It has squandered it's savings and has absolutely nothing to show for itself. It could have far better education with some decent policy. It could have had far better health care and social services if it didn't blow all our money on some of the the most rampant and stupid spending I have ever seen. Australia is now hoping to make a surplus after servicing its foreign debt. It never had it before the "GillaRudd" were in power.

          If they felt compelled to hock the nation, they could have done it far more beneficially.
          Howard spent bugger all on infrastructure and preferred to use those years of economic prosperity to give handouts and essentially buy votes. The Labor government was very effective in preventing a recession in Australia during the GFC. They took some bold steps to ensure that the markets didn't dry up and confidence was maintained. They have spent a considerable amount on infrastructure as well since the economic crisis, when many other nations have experienced economic retraction.

          Tax is a major source of revenue for the Government, yet people complain when the fat cats in WA are taxed on their mining operations. God knows why people oppose this, I guess we are more content with our natural resources being exported overseas, lining the pockets of billionaires. You can't have it both ways. Maybe we should adopt Kennet's line of thinking and privatise everything in an effort to balance the books...the Liberal way.

          How can people even begin to trust Abbott when he refuses to face the media at all? All of his speeches are pre-prepared, and we've all seen what an idiot he is when put on the spot (nodding for 25 seconds like a stunned mullet). We hear a lot of negativity about the ALP from Abbott, and he often chucks up the phrase, 'stop the boats,' yet his solution is unlikely to work.

          Many of our families came here with little money and worked in poor conditions for the majority of their lives. Chances are the ALP and unions provided them with a voice back in those days. Yes, the ALP may be a shadow of its' former self, but I can't help but feel I'd be selling-short those values if I ever voted for the Coalition. Workchoices was a shining example of this. How can anyone trust a prick who almost wiped out the collective rights of workers?

          Comment

          • EgejskaMakedonia
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2010
            • 1665

            #20
            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
            The Australian Government has already withdrawn funding from universities in order to partially pay for Gonski. Check the budget, read the news.
            I disagree with the Uni cuts Gillard introduced. I think this was a major blunder on their part, in particular when Uni students tend to lean to the left. It makes no sense to cut funds from unis, when they have a significant contribution to the Australian economy. It's not just about educating students, but intense R&D is also a product of Universities.

            That said, there has been a considerable increase in Uni funding since the Howard Government departed. However, this is generally overlooked by the majority of people. There has been no mention that the Liberal's will restore this funding either, yet they escape all criticism. It's quite absurd to be honest.

            Comment

            • Phoenix
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 4671

              #21
              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              How's passing legislation a feat in and of itself? Shouldn't you be asking what that legislation is and why we even need it? More state interference in our private lives is what it essentially amounts to.
              I think Gillard did well considering her tenure was constrained by the problems of a hung parliament, to still pass some 87% of legislation. That's an impressive effort and deserves credit.

              Why do we need legislation...you're kidding right?
              Give me one example of a functioning society or any form of governance void of legislation.

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              The Carbon tax? Gonski? School halls? Come on Phoenix... Do you actually know anything about these and how they will work and what they will do and how much they will cost?

              Visa's, workchoices and the NBN?
              [B]
              What exactly about these do you think is of benefit and how on earth would you justify the expense?
              Where's the evil in providing equity in the education system (Gonski, School funding) or legislating to improve the environmental impact of dirty industry, providing modern digital infrastructure to everyone or a fair workplace?

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8533

                #22
                Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                I think Gillard did well considering her tenure was constrained by the problems of a hung parliament, to still pass some 87% of legislation. That's an impressive effort and deserves credit.

                Why do we need legislation...you're kidding right?
                Give me one example of a functioning society or any form of governance void of legislation.



                Where's the evil in providing equity in the education system (Gonski, School funding) or legislating to improve the environmental impact of dirty industry, providing modern digital infrastructure to everyone or a fair workplace?
                I'm not asking why we need legislation per se, I'm asking whether you have considered why we even need the specific legislation that you give so much credit for to Gillard.

                Phoenix, you're giving me slogans in relation to Gonski and the carbon tax. I'm asking you if you know and understand the details or if you're just supporting those policies because the ALP came out with them?
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Phoenix
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 4671

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  The Australian Government has already withdrawn funding from universities in order to partially pay for Gonski. Check the budget, read the news.
                  I don't know why this is a problem for you Vangelovski, if you're all for minimal government intervention you shouldn't be dependent on government handouts and funding.

                  All of a sudden you sound like a hypocrite.

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    I'm not asking why we need legislation per se, I'm asking whether you have considered why we even need the specific legislation that you give so much credit for to Gillard.

                    Phoenix, you're giving me slogans in relation to Gonski and the carbon tax. I'm asking you if you know and understand the details or if you're just supporting those policies because the ALP came out with them?
                    The Liberals had a similar Carbon pricing scheme on the table, just as most of the civilized world has, this is not some unique Labor-centric act of 'socialist terrorism'.

                    I support any effort, natural or fabricated that will provide equity in health and education in this country.

                    Comment

                    • lavce pelagonski
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 1993

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                      The Liberals had a similar Carbon pricing scheme on the table, just as most of the civilized world has, this is not some unique Labor-centric act of 'socialist terrorism'.

                      I support any effort, natural or fabricated that will provide equity in health and education in this country.
                      By cutting funds from universities which provide us with educated people in the workforce. What is the point of taking from one and giving to another. She should have managed the budget better but then again here pay is much more important.
                      Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле Страшниот Чакаларов гркоубиец и крвожеден комитаџија.

                      Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море. Васил Чакаларов

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8533

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                        I don't know why this is a problem for you Vangelovski, if you're all for minimal government intervention you shouldn't be dependent on government handouts and funding.

                        All of a sudden you sound like a hypocrite.
                        Its not necessarily a problem for me Phoenix, I'm simply telling you what happened because you where questioning it when Lavce pointed it out. You don't seem to know the details of what you are supporting.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8533

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                          The Liberals had a similar Carbon pricing scheme on the table, just as most of the civilized world has, this is not some unique Labor-centric act of 'socialist terrorism'.

                          I support any effort, natural or fabricated that will provide equity in health and education in this country.
                          You and EM seem to have the Macedonian mentality that if you're against the ALP you must be pro Coalition (insert SDSM and DPMNE). Why is that?

                          Again, do you know and understand the details of the legislation you support? As usual in these matters, you're just giving me slogans.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Phoenix
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 4671

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                            You and EM seem to have the Macedonian mentality that if you're against the ALP you must be pro Coalition (insert SDSM and DPMNE). Why is that?

                            Again, do you know and understand the details of the legislation you support? As usual in these matters, you're just giving me slogans.
                            I haven't voted ALP at a Federal or State election for over a decade now, so there goes your theory...sounds like you're about slogans more than I am.

                            You still haven't explained your standing on issues like health, education, infrastructure investment and development, the environment and the workplace.

                            Lets hear your about your own utopian, Tea Party like views of how a country should be run...

                            Comment

                            • Egejska
                              Junior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 72

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                              I'd much rather live in a 'socialist' Australia under an ALP government than the right wing US models of governance or the extreme conservatism of the British system which are the inspirations for the "Mad Monk" and his vision for Australia.
                              With all due respect Phoenix but the Liberal party offers nothing like that. In my view and I'm sure most Australians view both major parties as practically the same - policies wise.

                              And with your preference with socialism compared to fiscal conservatism, I honestly don't see what is wrong with a free market and a small government. I don't see what is wrong with making decisions for myself, you don't know whats best for me, nor does the government so why make it?

                              It's worrying that someone nowadays would rather live in a socialist society as opposed to a free society and the current "conservatives" in the US are just neoconservatives who portray themselves as small government loving conservatives but are actually big government people who support unconstitutional wars and spying on their citizens.
                              An idea whose time has come, cannot be stopped by any army or any government.
                              Ron Paul.


                              Don't steal. The government hates competition.

                              Comment

                              • Phoenix
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 4671

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Egejska View Post
                                With all due respect Phoenix but the Liberal party offers nothing like that. In my view and I'm sure most Australians view both major parties as practically the same - policies wise.

                                And with your preference with socialism compared to fiscal conservatism, I honestly don't see what is wrong with a free market and a small government. I don't see what is wrong with making decisions for myself, you don't know whats best for me, nor does the government so why make it?

                                It's worrying that someone nowadays would rather live in a socialist society as opposed to a free society and the current "conservatives" in the US are just neoconservatives who portray themselves as small government loving conservatives but are actually big government people who support unconstitutional wars and spying on their citizens.
                                My preference is toward a political party that has a strong social program, one that makes an effort to pursue social equity in the form of access to education and health care to the disadvantaged in our society.
                                A government that ensures our natural resources aren't plundered by greedy multinationals or the tiny minority of the mega rich of this country.

                                I think my position is far more achievable than this notion that a small government, overseeing a free for all in the marketplace would somehow create the perfect form of governance for all.

                                Comment

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