The End of a United Kingdom?

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    The End of a United Kingdom?

    While some people still continues to ignore the major changes in European politics, the rising trend of nationalist movements continues in all EU countries. This time, pro-separatist nationalist party won Scottish elections which resulted overwhelming majority of them in Scottish parliament, enough to form a government of their own. Their motto during the election campaign were "free Scotland" and set up a referendum to leave United Kingdom.

    "If they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together with every single fibre that I have," British PM David Cameron told BBC television.

    Scottish Election 2011: Scotland to vote on leaving UK after nationalists surge to overall majority

    Scotland will vote on leaving the United Kingdom after Alex Salmond’s nationalists swept to victory in elections to the Scottish Parliament.

    The Scottish National Party yesterday won an outright majority, the first party to do so since devolution in 1999.

    The victory will allow Mr Salmond to trigger a referendum on Scottish independence during the next five-year parliament, the first formal challenge to the Union of England and Scotland in its 304-year history. In a surprisingly emphatic win, the SNP claimed 65 seats in the 129-seat Holyrood parliament.

    Mr Salmond, returned as First Minister, said his party’s success would allow him to call a vote on leaving the UK.

    “In this parliament, we shall bring forward a referendum and trust the people with Scotland’s constitutional future,” he said. Before the election, Mr Salmond said a referendum would be held in the second half of the parliament, meaning 2013 at the earliest.

    The nationalist surge represented a humiliation for the Labour Party, which had been expected to win in Edinburgh. Iain Gray, the Scottish Labour leader, said he would step down this year, describing his party’s results as “dreadful”.

    Conservative ministers admitted privately that Mr Salmond’s strengthened position would raise a long-term problem for David Cameron.

    In theory, ministers at Westminster could change the law that created the Scottish Parliament to prevent the SNP holding a referendum. But Mr Cameron signalled he would not try to stop a vote being held.

    “I will do anything as British Prime Minister to work with the Scottish First Minister and to treat the Scottish people and the Scottish government with the respect they deserve,” he said. “If they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together with every single fibre that I have.” Before the election campaign began, polls gave Labour a comfortable lead over the SNP, whose promise of an independent Scotland had been battered by the financial crisis that effectively bankrupted similar-sized nations including Iceland and Ireland.

    In a speech in Scotland last year, Ed Miliband declared that his party’s “fightback has begun,” a claim that was widely mocked yesterday by Conservatives.

    The Labour leader said his party had had “a very disappointing election result in Scotland – we need to learn the lessons of that result”.

    Even as they revelled in Mr Miliband’s setback, some Conservative ministers were worried about the implications of the SNP victory for the Union.

    One Government source said: “This is Ed Miliband’s problem today, but in the long term, it’s something for us to worry about.”

    In Wales, Labour emerged as the largest party in the Cardiff assembly, but fell short of claiming a majority with 30 out of 60 seats. The result could see Welsh Labour seeking to form a coalition with another party, potentially the Liberal Democrats.

    07 May 2011

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-majority.html
    I believe that the next in line is Germany but this wouldn't be something unexpected. The biggest blow will probably come with the victory of nationalist party of Le Pen in France, which would be deciding factor for the fate of European Union.

    So, are we going to see a totally different Europe after a decade or so?
    Last edited by Onur; 05-07-2011, 03:42 PM.
  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15661

    #2
    Originally posted by Onur View Post
    So, are we going to see a totally different Europe after a decade or so?
    I think so. There has been little benefits to being in the EU and the people are starting to realise this.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #3
      Oh well it's finally happening to the brits.The uk was very skeptical to surrendering their soveregnity.I knew that it's only a matter of time things aren't going to work out.
      One begs the question why does macedonia want to join a sinking ship like the eu.I think it's just false hope that the'll get something called handouts.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13676

        #4
        Congratulations to the SNP. As a Macedonian, I have always empathised with the Celtic peoples and their struggle for sovereignty. There are many parallels between their situations and that of the Macedonians, not least the matter of segregation and treachery from within. Scotland deserves to be free and independent, as Ireland deserves to be united. Although I welcome David Cameron's verbal support for the Macedonians against the racist policies of the Greek government, I feel that in this instance it is not his decision to make. Scots should determine the fate of Scotland.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • DirtyCodingHabitz
          Member
          • Sep 2010
          • 835

          #5
          UK is like Yugoslavia, it was doomed to fail from the start, just like any union or empire.

          Comment

          • Onur
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2010
            • 2389

            #6
            Originally posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
            UK is like Yugoslavia, it was doomed to fail from the start, just like any union or empire.
            Economical and cultural unions are not bad. For example, i am up for the abolition of all type of travel visas, economical and military&defense unions between neighboring states. But a common currency, common constitution, abolition of nation states, big NO for those since that wouldn't be an union but then it becomes an empire.

            As long as all states respects each others nation, laws and traditions, unions are good.


            As for Scotland and Ireland. They might even missed the last train, it`s probably too late for their national resurrection. They have been assimilated in British culture long time ago. How many people can speak Scottish and Irish Celt languages today? AFAIK, not more than 3-5% than total population of Scotland and Ireland.

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              #7
              I agree with you Onur, union with neighbouring states with travel visas not being a requirement , however, the national resurrection for Ireland and Scotland is important! For that very reason, that they may be able to maintain their culture and language, it is never too late, as long as they continue and the next generation has the ability to learn it. I am for freedom for these people
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13676

                #8
                Originally posted by Onur View Post
                As for Scotland and Ireland. They might even missed the last train, it`s probably too late for their national resurrection. They have been assimilated in British culture long time ago. How many people can speak Scottish and Irish Celt languages today? AFAIK, not more than 3-5% than total population of Scotland and Ireland.
                Onur, I don't think all the Scots and Irish need to be fluent in their own language for the purpose of asserting themselves on a national level. Besides, the majority of Ireland is already independent, with only a section of the north still under British 'control' (or occupation to some). Although the Scots are assimilated to a large degree in an Anglo-British culture, they have maintained their national identity and much of their own customs. And aside from local traitors and vassals, in addition to economic reasons (which have been the main reasons cited by the less independent-minded Scots), there is nothing really holding them back internally from seeking their freedom.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Jankovska
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1774

                  #9
                  Originally posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
                  UK is like Yugoslavia, it was doomed to fail from the start, just like any union or empire.
                  UK is nothing like Yugoslavia and it never will be. As for Scotland no one has stopped them of being who they are or who they want to be. The UK is not what it has been all those years ago and I think it is one of the most free countries in Europe today. I have never felt more comfortable anywhere abroad than in the UK and when it comes to freedom I will not change it for anything. The Scotts, Welsh, Irish they are free to be who they want to be. The UK is a union to serve for the benefit of all those.
                  Last edited by Jankovska; 05-09-2011, 04:25 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Voltron
                    Banned
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1362

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Onur View Post
                    While some people still continues to ignore the major changes in European politics, the rising trend of nationalist movements continues in all EU countries. This time, pro-separatist nationalist party won Scottish elections which resulted overwhelming majority of them in Scottish parliament, enough to form a government of their own. Their motto during the election campaign were "free Scotland" and set up a referendum to leave United Kingdom.

                    "If they want to hold a referendum, I will campaign to keep our United Kingdom together with every single fibre that I have," British PM David Cameron told BBC television.



                    I believe that the next in line is Germany but this wouldn't be something unexpected. The biggest blow will probably come with the victory of nationalist party of Le Pen in France, which would be deciding factor for the fate of European Union.

                    So, are we going to see a totally different Europe after a decade or so?
                    Im stilll waiting for the Waloons and Flems to break up Belgium. Then you have Republic of Srpska in Bosnia Herceogivina. Always a lot of talk about seperation but nothing ever happens. Same thing with the Scots, nothing will materialize.

                    One thing for sure, it was the US that started this trend with the breakup of Yugoslavia. Classic case of Divide and Conquer.

                    They should apply some of that medicine towards the Eastern front, but for some reason they dont. Places like Iraq (Kurdistan), and Naghorno-Karabakh for example.

                    Comment

                    • Onur
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 2389

                      #11
                      I believe the language is the most defining factor of being a nation of your own. Yes, Irish and Scottish celtic languages is not completely extinct yet but it`s close to be. So, i suppose, this would be their last chance.

                      I support Irish and Scottish national resurrection too and i believe everyone should support them. They suffered a lot under British oppression and they always had a territory of their own, Ireland and Scotland outside England.

                      Did you know the great Irish famine of 19th century as a result of British policy of planned extermination of Irish people by let them die by starving?






                      As a result of this British policy, more than million Irısh people has been died in hunger and million more migrated out to the America. That was basically how Irish population of USA has been created.

                      I know this event because Ottoman empire wanted to save them from dying. It`s getting mentioned in wikipedia article with few words;

                      Ottoman aid

                      In 1845, Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid declared his intention to send £10,000 to Irish farmers but Queen Victoria requested that the Sultan send only £1,000, because she herself had sent only £2,000. The Sultan sent the £1,000 sterling but also secretly sent three ships full of food. The English courts tried to block the ships, but the food arrived at Drogheda harbour and was left there by Ottoman sailors.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_I...ne#Ottoman_aid
                      Btw, £1000 should worth more than today`s million pounds if you calculate the inflation.

                      Whenever an Irish government officer comes to Turkey, they still thank us for that. From that day, the people of Drogheda are extremely friendly to the Turks and Irish people in Drogheda says that it`s because of that, the town of Drogheda`s coat of arms and the emblem of Drogheda`s football club has Turkish symbol

                      Comment

                      • DirtyCodingHabitz
                        Member
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 835

                        #12
                        when it comes to freedom I will not change it for anything
                        Funny, because I see peoples rights being taken away when they protest against immigrants or say something about the multicultural system.

                        YouTube - What Will Happen When Islam Takes Over Britain? WAKE UP!
                        I would love to live in your so called "democracy" aka political sadness.

                        Comment

                        • Onur
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 2389

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                          Im stilll waiting for the Waloons and Flems to break up Belgium. Then you have Republic of Srpska in Bosnia Herceogivina. Always a lot of talk about seperation but nothing ever happens. Same thing with the Scots, nothing will materialize.

                          One thing for sure, it was the US that started this trend with the breakup of Yugoslavia. Classic case of Divide and Conquer.

                          They should apply some of that medicine towards the Eastern front, but for some reason they dont. Places like Iraq (Kurdistan), and Naghorno-Karabakh for example.
                          Belgium is just a fake country created by French euro-heads. There is no such a nation as Belgians and there was never b4 either. There are just French and German-Dutch people in there, nothing else. French leaders desired to create a second Switzerland, a new country, united on top of money and a power comes from foreign support. Thats how they created Belgium and also branded them with so-called capital of European Union. So in that sense, Belgium became a fake country of a fake union.

                          Belgium cant even form a government for more than a year, breaking the world record of post-war Iraq in this term but it still survives today with French and general EU support. So, they are just like Greece`s economical situation. Greece still didn't announce it`s bankruptcy because of EU and Belgium still didn't break up because of EU again but both the Greece`s and Belgium`s situation doesn't reflect the reality at all. Greece is bankrupt and there is no such a country named Belgium!!!


                          British MP in the so-called European parliament summarizes what is Belgium and what`s not.
                          This is a MUST WATCH

                          YouTube - Farage is Right: Belgium is EU Microcosm

                          Belgian PM doesn't even know Belgian anthem and he thinks French anthem is also theirs, Whatta disastrous failure this is!!!


                          I agree to you about US intentions of Yugoslavia but don't forget that the state of Yugo-slavia wasn't created by the will of Bosnians, Croats and Macedonians. It was a creation of Serbs with the support of western powers to set up a blockage to the Italian and Austro-Hungarian territorial sovereignty. So, Yugo-slavia was fake again since the beginning and it was destined to die sooner or later.

                          Ngaro-Karabag??? Do not blindly support Armenians by ignoring historical facts just because you are a Greek. Ngaro-Karabag is an Azeri Turkish territory for more than a millenia and it was an Azerbaijani territory `till Armenia occupied it in 1992 by committing a genocide upon the local Azeri Turks. Armenian reign will be expelled from there sooner or later and justice would be served then.


                          For Kurdistan, they already apply that "medicine" to the Kurds for a century but all the surrounding peoples and states defies to that. Thats why we still don't have a Kurdistan yet. If they manage to create a Kurdistan, it would be like Belgium. A fake country, destined to die sooner or later because there has never been a state called Kurdistan in world history. That place has been governed by Turks for the last millenia and by Arabs, Persians b4 that.

                          Heyy, even Macedonians ruled that place b4, but never Kurds. So, in that sense, Macedonians have even more right to rule in there than Kurds
                          Last edited by Onur; 05-09-2011, 04:45 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Voltron
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1362

                            #14
                            Onur, you have to be consistent. You cant have it both ways.
                            You telling me Azeri's are more indeginous to the area than Armenians ? Same thing applies to Kurds, and the fact that their neighbors are against it is clear the type of oppression they have been under.

                            Yugoslavia was anything but a nightmare to Serbia, at least it turned out to be.

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                              You telling me Azeri's are more indeginous to the area than Armenians ? Same thing applies to Kurds, and the fact that their neighbors are against it is clear the type of oppression they have been under.

                              Yugoslavia was anything but a nightmare to Serbia, at least it turned out to be.
                              Read first, then have an opinion about something.

                              Yes, Azeri Turks are more indigenous in Ngaro-Karabag than Armenians. Armenians lived between Istanbul to current Armenian state since Byzantine times, scattered around by being a minority in everywhere. They even gone to as west as Balkans, lived as a minority again. They tried to create a majority of themselves in eastern Anatolia with the start of WW-1 by mass murdering local civilian Turks and Kurds but that horrible events resulted with their expulsion from there, to the current Armenia. Thats exactly when a concentrated Armenian population in a particular place has been formed with the Russian support, for the first time in history. For example, even in current Armenian lands, Azeri Turks was majority again b4 the Armenian expulsion to there in 1915. Also, being more or less indigenous for somewhere doesn't mean everything. Even if Armenians would be more indigenous for that particular place, this doesn't change the fact that Azeri Turks rules in there for more than a millenia. To have a possession of a territory, you have to demonstrate will and power too, as well as being indigenous. Also who can claim that today`s Armenians are same as the ones of 2000 years ago? This is kinda like Greek claims about Macedonia and Anatolia, which is a completely false thought. If they claim that they are exact same as the Armenians of antique era, then i can be an Hittite or Lydian and i am more indigenous here than you Greeks and Armenians This is stupid!

                              Kurdish story is quite similar with them. Kurds was also minority in everywhere they lived throughout history.

                              So, in that sense, this is not an indication of some kind of oppression. Neither Armenians nor Kurds never had a state of their own because they were always a minority and never had a power to rule and govern a state. As a general law, minorities CANNOT rule over the majority, otherwise it would be a fake state and a demonstration of a real oppression. Currently, %15 Kurdish minority rules in whole Iraq and we know that this is just an abomination and Kurdish oppression upon Iraqi Turks, Arabs and Iranians.


                              For Yugoslavia, you are right but Serbs harvested what they have sowed. So, i don't think they have a right to complain about it. If anyone tries to create a country with massacres, relocation, re-settlements without a reason and then denial, that doesn't work at all and it breaks up sooner or later no matter how much they deny the historical facts. So, why do you think Greek government was/is always extremely cautious and in panic about everything related with Aegean Macedonia? You know the reason for that and how that particular place was completely different in sociological, cultural and demographic terms less than a century ago.

                              I mean, why we never see flags with "Morea is Greek, Crete is Greek" while we keep seeing "Macedonia is Greek" in literally everywhere? It`s exactly the same reason of why we see "Cyprus is Greek" because neither Macedonia nor Cyprus is Greek. You all know this deep in your heart but you cant even admit to yourself.
                              Last edited by Onur; 05-09-2011, 04:28 PM.

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