Ataturk Memorial Home in Centar Župa

[Prolet]

Onur, The writting is in Macedonian, however there is a sketch there of what Ataturk's memorial home will look like.

His parents were born in the village of Kodzadzik in Cenar Župa which is close to Debar.

[Onur]

Looks quite good Prolet. Thanks for the post.

Btw, who lives around this place atm? Albanians? As far as i heard, there was one Turkish village around there few years ago.

[Bratot]

Looks quite good Prolet. Thanks for the post.

Btw, who lives around this place atm? Albanians? As far as i heard, there was one Turkish village around there few years ago.

It's mainly a Turkish village with neighbouring Macedonian villages of Novak and Elevci.

70% of the population has emmigrated in Itally.


Centar Župa (Turkish: Merkez Jupa) is a municipality in western Republic of Macedonia. Centar Župa is also the name of the village where the municipal seat is found.

The municipality consists of the following villages: Bajramovci, Balanci, Breštani, Broštica, Centar Župa, Crno Boci, Dolgaš, Dolno Melničani, Elevci, Evla, Golem Papradnik, Gorenci, Gorno Melničani, Kočišta, Kodžadžik, Mal Papradnik, Novak, Odžovci, Osolnica, Pareši, Pralenik, Vlasikji, Žitineni.

80% of these villages are Macedonian.


According to the last National census from 2002 this municipality has 6,519 inhabitants.

Ethnic groups in the municipality include:

Turks: 5,226
Macedonians: 814
Albanians: 454
others: 25.

http://www.stat.gov.mk/pdf/kniga_13.pdf

[Onur]

Thats great to hear Bratot. At least Kocacik still hasn't been overran by Albanians yet but sad to learn that people are migrating out.

The signboard looks cooler with our symbol, crescent+star

[George S.]

Onur I think i'm sure the memorial will be visited by heaps of people from areound the balkans as well others.It's very fitting to have this memorial happening with the mutual friendship of Macedonia & Turkey continuing.I think some countries like greece should take a leaf from that example.

[Prolet]

Spolaj Ti Brate for the further information.

Im not sure when it will be completed though, they are still working on the project.

[Onur]

It's very fitting to have this memorial happening with the mutual friendship of Macedonia & Turkey continuing.I think some countries like greece should take a leaf from that example.

Yes, i agree. This should be an example to every state in Balkans to show that mutual agreement and friendship is "possible" here. I am not sure about Greece tough, if something extraordinary like a revolution happens there.

For example, there is a 1500 year old monastery at Black sea and it was serving as a museum since all the christians gone to Greece at population exchange. Greeks was demanding to perform a ritual there for some time but it wasn't possible since it was a museum, not a church for 85 years. But as a sign of good intention, Turkish government allowed them to do it once in a year in every August 15th. About 3000 people came from Greece for it two weeks ago and patriarch of Istanbul performed their ritual and then they`ve gone in peace, without any problem. In the same day, Greek mobs vandalized an Ottoman era cemetery by breaking about 10-12 grave stones, painting nazi and anti-Turk slogans on the rest and they also marked few homes of Turkish people with swastika signs at western Thrace.

Muslim Cemetary in Komotini Vandalized

Vandals desecrated a Muslim cemetery in the Northeastern town of Komotini, where there is a Muslim minority. About 10 gravestones were smashed late Friday night into Saturday morning. Approximately 30 members of the local Muslim community subsequently demonstrated in the center of Komotini.

The fate of the Muslim minority living in Thrace remains an apple of discord between Athens and Ankara, despite efforts to improve their status in the 1990’s. Thrace lies in Greece nearby the Turkish border.

Posted on 15 August 2010

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2010...ves-in-greece/

So, unless some miracle happens and Greece completely changes their policy toward Turkey and other neighbors, nothing will change for them. I`m %100 sure about that.

[ArMakedon]

This thing with turks is: Enemy of my enemy is mine fiend.

[TrueMacedonian]

This thing with turks is: Enemy of my enemy is mine fiend.

? Come again?

[Risto the Great]

? Come again?

I would assume AM means Greece's enemy in Turkey is Macedonia's friend. Which does apply. But I would hope that the friendship can extend a little further than that mentality. However, I will be honest and say the Turkish support for ethnic Albanians in Macedonia irks me a little and I hope that does not become an unworkable issue in the future.

[Prolet]

Risto, I dont know about Turkey but Turks in Macedonia dont get along very well with Albanians. Turkey accepted alot of Albanian refugees from Kosovo, but i dont know how they stand politically.

[Onur]

I would assume AM means Greece's enemy in Turkey is Macedonia's friend. Which does apply. But I would hope that the friendship can extend a little further than that mentality. However, I will be honest and say the Turkish support for ethnic Albanians in Macedonia irks me a little and I hope that does not become an unworkable issue in the future.

Current condition of Turkey, Greece and ROM might lead this friendship but this is not the only pursuit of Turkey about supporting ROM, i am sure of that. A lot of people even have emotional ties with Macedonia but you just don't know this, i don't blame you about that since Turkish presence pretty much erased from Balkans after 20th century and you don't know much about us except some bad memories which have been repeated in every possible occasion by some. We have our own bad memories too but i think Turkish people started to overcome those after 100 years and we never had any prejudice at all.


Can you be more specific about Turkey`s support to Albanians in Macedonia? cuz i really didn't hear or know anything about that. I can guess like maybe Albanians indirectly gets support from us because of muslim Turks in ROM, but i really don't know anything about Turkish support specifically to Albanians.

Turkey accepted alot of Albanian refugees from Kosovo

This is another example to my statement above, about erased history of Turkish people in Balkans.

Prolet, Turkey doesn't accept anyone without Turkish language knowledge and at least partly Turkish heritage to Turkey. But i don't blame you or anyone about this since Albanians pretends that everyone in Kosovo are pure Illyrians and if they speak Turkish, it`s because we supposedly "assimilated" them, right?

You guys listen and read to this 1000 times and 500+ years of Turkish appearance already erased from people`s minds, so you believe them naively by thinking that they are all Albanians. I don't find that as something unexpected tough since 100 years passed on this.

About ROM-Turkey relations;
Lets leave the years of Balkan war immigrations aside, i don't think many Macedonians in ROM aware that around 350.000 people immigrated to Turkey between 1950-1960. About %35 of them was Torbesh people. They should be around 1.5 million now. People aware of this or am i wrong?

[Prolet]

Spolaj Ti Onur

I can see where you're comming from

Perhaps you can give us your opinion on the Ataturk Memorial Home in Centar Župa? I know it will be a big attraction for the people in Turkey, just like Bitola and Skopje are.

Onur, Just so you know there is a Daut Pashin Amam Gallery in Skopje in the Old Bazaar (Charshija) which dates back to the 15th century. It was made for the Pasha Daut and now its been renovated and its an Art Gallery. This place is very popular among the Turkish Tourists that come to Skopje i thought i'd give you a bit more information about it. It was used as the old Turkish Baths.

Here is more information in Macedonian

http://www.unet.com.mk/museums/dautpasin.htm

[Prolet]

Onur, After doing some more research i found this site i translated it in Turkish from Macedonian for you.

On the right hand side, there is more information of Ottoman buildings where you can find further information.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ii.edu.mk%2Fpredmeti%2Fmm%2F20052006%2Fmmproekti%2Fskopje_stara_charshija%2Fznamenitosti-daut-pasin-amam.html&sl=mk&tl=tr

[ArMakedon]

I would assume AM means Greece's enemy in Turkey is Macedonia's friend. Which does apply. But I would hope that the friendship can extend a little further than that mentality. However, I will be honest and say the Turkish support for ethnic Albanians in Macedonia irks me a little and I hope that does not become an unworkable issue in the future.

There is no friendship. Just common interest.