Financial Crisis in Greece

[Prolet]

Either way i think whats happening with Greece is terrible because we will also share the burden in some way, we have an old saying if the Bear is dancing in your neighbors yard, the chances are it will come to your yard too. The reality is that we are next door neighbors and we are very close to eachother geographically and its a shame our relations are so bad because no country in the world can exist without the help of allies and friends.

On one hand i'm very pissed off about this name issue but the reality is that its not good for us either and we shouldnt be laughing away at other people's miseries because this could happen to anybody, i just think the Greek people should get their act together and get all the support they can because they are going to be suffering the most from this.

[Spartan]

JohnMKD, all of Greece will revolt.

Not all Daskalot..... Unions, lefties, the poor and the anarchists yes....derfinitely. Half the country is righties dont forget, and most of these people realize serious reforms need to be made if the current situation hasd any chance of being salvaged.
Also, I am very confident that the bulk of protesting will occur in Athens...a little in Thessaloniki and Patras as well.
Wont affect the whole country.

Yeah, thats true. I think the first step might be the removal of Greece from the currency of EU to stop devaluation of their Euro currency but i dont think they can dare to dump Greece.

That is more likely I agree, but its still a long way from reaching that point. Like i said, the powers will try and recoup all the money they can before letting greece default.
Also, to give you another example of what a joke this is, both germany and France want the greeks to spend 400 million on their military in the upcoming months lol .

Also, Spartan is right but i really have no idea how come a country with 10 million population and without any considerable industry gonna repay over 500 billion EU debt.

Simple! They cant and they wont.
They could potentially put a dent in it, and make it more managable with the drastic reforms, but they will never completely pay it off imo.

@Prolet

You have a good heart brother.
I commend you for that

[Soldier of Macedon]

My grandfather always told me that the Commies were never completely defeated in the civil war, and that greece would pay for this in the future.....

I am not sure about the situation in your parts Spartan, but in the north, the Communists were defeated because the 'other side' received help from the USA, who napalmed Macedonian villages aligned with the Communists. At the end of the day, the Macedonians suffered because of it, the Macedonians paid for it, then.

Perhaps the legacy of Communism represents something different in the south of Greece, but in the north, it is (to a large degree) identified with the Macedonian liberation movement from Greek tyrrany and oppression.

[Soldier of Macedon]

.....we shouldnt be laughing away at other people's miseries because this could happen to anybody......

True. And being subjected to a stupid dispute over a name is not something that could happen to anybody. Yet most Greeks seem quite happy to laugh at our misery.

I don't think I can be blamed for feeling rather indifferent about what is happening in Greece. I don't wish hardships on anybody, much less death, it is terrible that there have been casualties already. May their families get through this time of sorrow.

However, I won't be shedding a tear for the Greek state. Were this to be happening in Macedonia, Greece would be preparing to put the final nail in our coffin. That's a fact. Let's put things into perspective here, the Greeks even refused our water and assistance when their state was burning down (!), no Macedonian should be sympathetic to what is happening in Greece at the moment. We should always remain human and humane, but never lose sight of the reality, while there are several Greeks that are good freinds and brotherly with the Macedonians, generally speaking, Greece itself is not a friend of Macedonia or the Macedonian people.

[Spartan]

I am not sure about the situation in your parts Spartan, but in the north, the Communists were defeated because the 'other side' received help from the USA, who napalmed Macedonian villages aligned with the Communists. At the end of the day, the Macedonians suffered because of it, the Macedonians paid for it, then.

Perhaps the legacy of Communism represents something different in the south of Greece, but in the north, it is (to a large degree) identified with the Macedonian liberation movement from Greek tyrrany and oppression.

You are very right SoM.
In the north it was more about 'cold war politics', thus the interference?

In the south, the americans(or anyone else) didnt have any great interest.... it was strictly an idealogical war as far as I know, not ethnically driven and not much outside interference. It was pretty bad....maybe not 'napalm' bad, but not good by any stretch.
As my grandfather has told me from his experiences, it was more or less banditry, not full out battles of organized armies with cannons and such.
20th century klephtery, lol
My grandfather had 3 brothers and a sister killed by the lefties, and was shot at by his
1st cousins who had joined the commies. I could recount a million stories, but thats neither here nor there.

Anyways, the remnants these 'lefties' my gramps always told me about, went underground and infiltrated the labour Unions. With the fortune they made from this over the years, they made their KKK party (its a disgrace it even exists today) rich, strong and very influential over the public. They are the ones who organized the 'protests' when the kid was killed last year, and they are the ones who organized the 'protests' of the last few days. They are also advising the so called anarchists(Koukoulofori), and it is their intent imo, to have these protests turn violent by firing up the people, and hanging malakia signs from the parthenon for the whole world to see our shambles.
In my opinion they are an embarassment the way they conduct themselves, and an embarassment that they are allowed to exist as a recognized political party in the year 2010.

[Prolet]

Spolaj Ti for the kind words Spartan

[Prolet]

SOM, You're right we have our own dignity and respect, this is why i believe the Greek people should take a look at themselves and see that we are not living in the dark ages anymore and that its time to stop looking at their neighbors like they are their enemies like they do with us and Turkey. We've suffered alot im not disputing this but hopefully now things can change for the better for everyones sake.

[julie]

I have compassion for all souls that are enduring human suffering. I dont agree with violence for the sake of violence, nor do I agree with protests where innocent civilians are basically murdered.
My prayers go out to the families of these innocent victims
I believe in dialogue and appropriate communication. I also believe in the right for basic human rights and for the rights to self determination.
I cant help but feel indifferent to Greece's plight today.
Karma works in mysterious ways and if this was the Macedonian race that was in the pickle that Greece finds itself in, then Greece would have been the first nation to take advantage and move in for the kill, without compassion or humility.

Perhaps Greece should at this time recognise the plight of the Aegean Macedonians and all Macedonians, drop their stupidity in regards to RoM negotiating our name and swallow a bitter pill and shut up.

[Onur]

this is why i believe the Greek people should take a look at themselves and see that we are not living in the dark ages anymore and that its time to stop looking at their neighbors like they are their enemies like they do with us and Turkey. We've suffered alot im not disputing this but hopefully now things can change for the better for everyones sake.

I agree SOM. If same would happen in Turkey or Macedonia, i am sure Greeks would try to get some benefit for themselves but on the other hand, any crisis in Greece concerns me because whenever Greece became unstable, some radical freaks gained power and then they turn their hatred toward their neighbors. Thats why i never would like see Greece in a crisis.


This was on newspapers today;

Red Carpet from Chios Island Governor Lambrinudis for Turkish residents

The Chios Island Governor Lambrinudis regrets the de-facto between Greeks and Turks, reported the Greek Media.

“The Island goes towards a no-mans land fate due to aging population and the fast immigration abroad. Turks should be permitted for residence and the visas lifted” asked Lambrinudis officially from the PM and Foreign Affairs Minister Papandreau.

“We should revise our fraud of foreigners and racism” said Lambrinudis. “We would rather appreciate their visits and residence to overcome the heavy crisis in tourism”.

The president of the chamber of commerce in Chios island also supported the wish of governor with his comment of "While only 10 Turkish tourists spends more money than a full charter group of northern Europeans, we are doing our best to prevent our most valuable visitors(Turks) to come here. We have no other choice than inviting Turkish people to come here" said Andonis Zanikos.


Islands desperately need Turkish tourists.
Mayor of Simi Island neighbor to Datca of Turkey, Lefetris Papakalodoukas indicated the Turkish tourism as the emergency way out of the crisis. “ We adore their visits and Turkey is the exclusive market to overcome the downsizing of the industry”

The total arrivals by ship rise up to 5.500 in 2009. Simi is planning to organize a common Concert with the participation of famous Turkish and a Greek singers.


"Shocking demand"
The announcement of the governor caused an uprising in some Greek newspapers like Thema with headlines of;
"The governor of Chios`s demands are agitating Greek people"...

"Shocking announcement. Governor Lambrinudis wants Turkish people to buy properties in Greek islands"...

P. S: Btw, When i go to the coast line in Cesme-Izmir, i can see the street lights in Chios island. It`s that close to Turkey. Well, i have zero intention to go there since most tourism spots in Turkey became not much different than Ibiza in recent years. On the other hand, it looks like Greek islands are dying.

[Prolet]

I agree SOM. If same would happen in Turkey or Macedonia, i am sure Greeks would try to get some benefit for themselves but on the other hand, any crisis in Greece concerns me because whenever Greece became unstable, some radical freaks gained power and then they turn their hatred toward their neighbors. Thats why i never would like see Greece in a crisis.

Onur, You confused SOM with myself and that doesnt usually happen very often.

[johnMKD]

Either way i think whats happening with Greece is terrible because we will also share the burden in some way, we have an old saying if the Bear is dancing in your neighbors yard, the chances are it will come to your yard too. The reality is that we are next door neighbors and we are very close to eachother geographically and its a shame our relations are so bad because no country in the world can exist without the help of allies and friends.

On one hand i'm very pissed off about this name issue but the reality is that its not good for us either and we shouldnt be laughing away at other people's miseries because this could happen to anybody, i just think the Greek people should get their act together and get all the support they can because they are going to be suffering the most from this.

Compliments also from me, Prolet. Humanism is something that sees no borders and no hatred whatsoever. Greece may have done a lot of things to you (to us), but these people did not deserve to die like that. And yes, I agree that a destabilised country can destabilise its neighbours very effectively. But, I don't think that Greeks would ever feel alright if something like this would happen to Turkey or to Macedonia. Greece and Turkey were the first countries to have helped each other in the earthquakes of Istanbul and Athens in 1999. Furthermore, an earthquake in the region, for example, is more likely to cause damages also to the neighbours. Last year there was one in the border of Macedonia (of 5.8 R) that was very much felt in Voden as well, as I was told. If neighbouring countries do not cooperate in difficult situations, then this world is doomed.

PS-Sorry if I sound quite melodramatic, but I'm having a really bad day.

[Soldier of Macedon]

John, we're aren't talking about environmental disasters, and even if we were, when Macedonia offered her help to Greece during the fires, the latter rejected it. God forbid, a firefighter with a uniform that has Macedonian writing may have entered Greece!

Greece wouldn't give a damn about Macedonia if the latter was going through austerity measures as a result of economic theivery. I heard radio reports earlier that Australian Greeks are worried about the scenes in Athens, and that the Greek state might collapse. Seems like the Greeks are still fearing the worst, I wonder if the proposed measures will be passed in the parliament tonight, what do you think? The protesters won't be happy, and their activities don't seem to be dying down either. The worst may still be yet to come.

Again, I am indifferent to such an occurrence (collapse of state). I ain't no dreamer, I am very much a realist, and I harbour no fantasies about some overnight reunification of Macedonia. However, were the Greek state to collapse, I would support the reunification of Macedonian lands by adjoining the Macedonian part of Greece to the Republic of Macedonia. Let's be truthful, Macedonia should never have been criminally absorbed into the Greek state, the mere fact itself is an insult to our people and the memory of our ancestors.

The lines were drawn in the sand a long time ago, John, Macedonia and Greece can show respect to each other, but Macedonia owes nothing to Greece, least of all sympathy and/or assistance. I am not out there, actively seeking the destruction of the Greek state, but I won't have any regrets were it to eventuate.

[julie]

SoM those are my sentiments too.

I dont agree with violence either, but then its amazing how quickly it has been forgotten by some for the atrocities the Greeks have committed upon the Macedonian people. With the support (napalm) of the land of the free and all.

Indifference , to the plight of the economic disaster which they have brought upon themselves.
It leaves one to wonder how much monies have been spent on anti-Macedonian propoganda, the Greek lobby is not that strong in the diaspora from thin air. My theory anyway.

Thank heavens RoM is not part of the EU - to pay for Greece's mismanagement of funds.
To see the Greek state collapse, I certainly wont be shedding any tears John MKD. The tears I would be shedding would be of joy. Not after the inhuman injustices and atrocities they have inflicted upon my people.
Bring it on, for the greater good of my people.
If the Aegean Macedonia were to be part of RoM Greece would starve to death, the most fertile land and agriculture is all in the Aegean.

I dont understand why the entire world has to bail Greece out of their financial stuff ups? How disgusting

[Phoenix]

Compliments also from me, Prolet. Humanism is something that sees no borders and no hatred whatsoever. Greece may have done a lot of things to you (to us), but these people did not deserve to die like that. And yes, I agree that a destabilised country can destabilise its neighbours very effectively. But, I don't think that Greeks would ever feel alright if something like this would happen to Turkey or to Macedonia. Greece and Turkey were the first countries to have helped each other in the earthquakes of Istanbul and Athens in 1999. Furthermore, an earthquake in the region, for example, is more likely to cause damages also to the neighbours. Last year there was one in the border of Macedonia (of 5.8 R) that was very much felt in Voden as well, as I was told. If neighbouring countries do not cooperate in difficult situations, then this world is doomed.

PS-Sorry if I sound quite melodramatic, but I'm having a really bad day.

Mate, countless Macedonians have suffered for almost 100 years at the hands of the modern 'greeks' and all of a sudden the Macedonians have to be the ones showing "humanism" because the modern greek has decided to turn on his own...fuck that buddy and fuck your bullshit.

Where was 'humanism without borders' when 'greek' motherfuckers were killing Macedonians, or creating generations of orphans, intimidating the elderly and stealing the innocence from children.

For decades all of you greek dogs and rabid apologists have had your heads buried so far up your arses that you pranced around aloof and arrogant to the plight of any of your neighbours, you've gone out of your way to keep your neighbours beneath your feet and under your control.

Unfortunately for you, Karma is a bitch bigger than any of you dogs and when she bites she sinks her teeth in down to the bone...

What we see today on the streets of Athens is a knee jerk reaction from a directionless society slowly sliding into the abyss but the issues run far deeper than financial alone...greek society will survive so long as there's somebody to foot the bill, the 'greeks' don't know any other way...

The greatest fear for the survivability of the modern greek state is not about the colour of its bottom line...its the political fear that the greek swine can evolve into anything capable of moral reflection, if that day ever came, bye bye and good riddence greece....

[johnMKD]

John, we're aren't talking about environmental disasters, and even if we were, when Macedonia offered her help to Greece during the fires, the latter rejected it. God forbid, a firefighter with a uniform that has Macedonian writing may have entered Greece!

I had no idea about that. It's really shameful that Greece didn't accept help from Macedonia during the fires. This only infuriates me.

Greece wouldn't give a damn about Macedonia if the latter was going through austerity measures as a result of economic theivery. I heard radio reports earlier that Australian Greeks are worried about the scenes in Athens, and that the Greek state might collapse. Seems like the Greeks are still fearing the worst, I wonder if the proposed measures will be passed in the parliament tonight, what do you think? The protesters won't be happy, and their activities don't seem to be dying down either. The worst may still be yet to come.

I'm sure that there are humans left in Greece, SoM, that would think otherwise than what you say. However, I contacted many times my friends and relatives back in Greece regarding that and everybody seemed to be worried. My personal opinion is that all measures will be imposed asap and it is the people that will have to pay as always.

Again, I am indifferent to such an occurrence (collapse of state). I ain't no dreamer, I am very much a realist, and I harbour no fantasies about some overnight reunification of Macedonia. However, were the Greek state to collapse, I would support the reunification of Macedonian lands by adjoining the Macedonian part of Greece to the Republic of Macedonia. Let's be truthful, Macedonia should never have been criminally absorbed into the Greek state, the mere fact itself is an insult to our people and the memory of our ancestors.

The lines were drawn in the sand a long time ago, John, Macedonia and Greece can show respect to each other, but Macedonia owes nothing to Greece, least of all sympathy and/or assistance. I am not out there, actively seeking the destruction of the Greek state, but I won't have any regrets were it to eventuate.

I wouldn't wish that for anyone SoM, but that's my personal opinion again. The truth is that I've started feeling a lot of Macedonian inside me, and a brother to all Macedonians, but again this is no reason for me to be indifferent about Greece. My whole point before, however, was not to feel pity about Greece as a state, but about the 3 people that died over there and they did not deserve it.