Financial Crisis in Greece

[Valmir]

If Greece gets 100% with pakis than it will be easy to get Chameria

[The LION will ROAR]

The poster is all over the trains and buses in London!

[Onur]

According to the official EU figures, debt ridden Greece purchased arms worth over one billion Euros only from EU states in 2010, while they were negotiating their first bail-out package;

EU figures show crisis-busting arms sales to Greece
Official figures show that EU countries sold Greece over €1 billion of arms at the same time as negotiating its first bail-out back in 2010.

France was by far the biggest seller, with a €794 million aircraft deal, according to recently-released European Council data on arms licences granted by member states. It also sold €58 million of missiles and €19 million of electronics used for aircraft countermeasures and target acquisition.

Pro-austerity advocates the Netherlands and Germany together sold almost €90 million of mostly electronics and ground vehicles. Italy sold €52 million of rifles and aircraft parts, while Spain sold €33 million of military-grade chemicals.

Greece is currently trying to shave every possible centime off its budget, but it still remains one of the biggest arms spenders in the region due to a perceived threat from Turkey.

The then Greek deputy defence minister, Panos Beglitis, in 2010 told Reuters that fellow member states did not put pressure on Athens to buy the arms in order to get the bail-out. "This [large scale arms purchases] has always been the case with these countries. It is not because of the crisis, there is no link," he said.

But an aide to the then Greek leader, George Papandreou, who asked to remain anonymous, told the news agency: "No one is saying 'Buy our warships or we won't bail you out.' But the clear implication is that they will be more supportive if we do."

Looking to the Middle East, the 2010 figures tell a tale of EU countries arming their Sunni Muslim allies against Shia Muslim enemies Iran and Syria.

EU countries granted €2.5 billion of licences for exports to Saudi Arabia, €1.5 billion for the United Arab Emirates and €1.2 billion for Oman. Sales to smaller Sunni-controlled regimes - Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar and Yemen - added up to €1.1 billion.

They sold almost nothing to Iran and Syria (barring half-a-million-worth of Greek aircraft parts for Syria's President Assad, who buys mostly from Russia).

The arms sales overlap with EU Arab Spring politics.

EU countries over the past year gave Sunni dictatorships plenty of leeway on repression while condemning human rights abuses in, for instance, Iran, or strategically less important countries in north Africa.

Arms for autocrats
Some EU diplomats are worried Algeria could see unrest in May elections, where Islamist political groups will challenge septuagenerian autocrat Abdelaziz Bouteflika. A previous confrontation in 1992 prompted a bloody civil war.

If Algeria becomes the next Libya or Syria, there will be no shortage of EU-made weapons on the ground.

Total arms licences in 2010 were €933 million, including €584 million of British and Italian aircraft; €94 million of Italian and French electronic countermeasure equipment; €40 million of French naval vessels; and €24 million of Bulgarian ammunition.

EU licences for pre-Arab-Spring dictators in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia came to €531 million. The weapons are still sloshing around in Libya, which on Tuesday (6 March) split in two when leaders in the oil-rich east claimed autonomy.

The figures also show how much wiggle-room there is in the EU arms ban on China, which goes back to the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre. Despite the embargo, it granted almost €218 million of licences in 2010.

The lion's share came from France and the UK for aircarft and ground vehicle parts, electronic equipment, missiles and over €13 million of: "Chemical or biological toxic agents, 'riot control agents,' radioactive materials."

Clear risk
The EU figures are collected on the basis of a 2008 Code of Conduct, which says member states should not sell to places if there is "a 'clear risk' that the weapons will be used for internal repression" or "could provoke or prolong armed conflict."

The reporting system is known for its sloppiness.

In 2009, for instance, Italian firm Beretta sold €8 million of guns to Libya. But the shipment was incorrectly registered as being of Maltese origin and worth €80 million, after a shipping firm, W.J. Parnis England, made a typo which went unnoticed for two years.

"If this is what is happening in the official and legal arms trade, I can only imagine what is happening in the illegal arms trade," Francesco Vignarca, the director of Italian arms control NGO, Rete Disarmo, told EUobserver at the time.

http://euobserver.com/13/115513

[Onur]

While Greece continues to be Europe`s no.1 customer for Franco-German arms industry, less than two months ago, their former PM Costas Simitis confessed that the arms race with Turkey is pointless because no matter what, Greece gets obliterated in just 2 hours against Turkish army. He said that in a public conference in Germany;

C. Simitis, 23.1.2012, Berlin, Full Speech - YouTube

Turkey-Greece war would last 2 hours, ex-Greek PM says
Former Greek Prime Minister Kostas Simitis has said that Greece's arms race with Turkey would give the country no advantage in a possible confrontation with Ankara deeming it a waste of economic resources of the crisis-torn country, saying Greece would only last two hours in the event of a war with Turkey. "Should a war with Turkey erupt, Greece's armament would be of no use. Such a war will be fought for two or three hours," Simitis claimed at a conference organized by the Germany-based Heinrich Boll Foundation in Berlin on Tuesday as reported by Greek media. Greece, the country with the highest military expenditure-to-gross domestic product (GDP) ratio in Europe, has in a way become a victim of its arms race with Turkey. Despite claiming that Turkey tries to provoke the existing conflicts between the two countries, Simitis said: "Greece should not waste its resources on armament; it should instead turn to the EU to resolve any conflicts. The EU should be a guarantor for Greece's external security."

http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/n..._69998579.html

[Phoenix]

The arms race between greece and turkey will eventually (almost there at the moment) play out in the same way that the USSR and US did...with the USSR going to the wall.

greek GDP is somewhere in the order of $300 billion, compared to Turkish GDP in the order of approx. $800 billion and both countries GDP growth is heading in opposite directions, negative for greece and positive for Turkey.

All defence budgets are based on a percentage of GDP being directed to defence, when most civilized nations are directing around 2-3% of their GDP to the defence budget it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that Turkey is putting more money into its defence forces.

If greece is stuck in this mathematical nightmare, with absolutely no chance to grow its economy there can only be one outcome.

[Voltron]

Simitis said the war would only last a few hours before the USA and allies stop it. (Greece and Turkey Nato Allies anyone ?)
For once post something accurate for mohammed's sake Onur.

[Ljubanec]

Simitis said the war would only last a few hours before the USA and allies stop it. (Greece and Turkey Nato Allies anyone ?)
For once post something accurate for mohammed's sake Onur.

"Greece and Turkey Nato allies anyone?" Voltron, you can't play on both sides of the fence! Stop using your pride and nationalism to cloud your judgement. An attack by the Republic of Macedonia was a reason used by Greek politicians to Veto Macedonia's Nato bid in Bucharest. So please, it is Greece that is not acting like an ally toward Turkey.

[George S.]

greece would be decimated in a war with turkey macedonia should help turkey out in their own limited way.

[Krivan]

It is indeed comical to see two NATO members gear up for war with each others. Even more so on Greece's side for thinking they have a chance against Turkey with an artificially inflated economy and a small population of 10 million. Greece has always been the weakest Balkan power and continue to be today.

[George S.]

Are European banks rescue Greece or themselves?

http://www.vest.com.mk/?ItemID=51F371154A35AA409E14E56BFB555642

The Guardian - London - (Photo AP) - Who Saves the recovery from the debtor evroskata crisis? This issue will not be neglected. Last week. Greece was approved the second package of assistance in order to avoid catastrophic bankruptcy. Few experts believe that this will be enough to avoid neophdnosta third package of assistance, at least short term.

This week, the story of Euro crisis turned to Portugal, as growing expectations of financial markets that it needs a second package of assistance. This is not surprising. The first package of aid to Greece almost two years, should be without sequels; recently. EU leaders repeatedly insisted that there would be no repeat of the second package. Again came that they behave like King Kanut: whatever you say, they can not turn back the waves of skepticism that comes from markets. Greek banks - who live by fees from new investments in the economy sixth year in a row facing with receisja - certainly not "saved." Cuts jerks debt of 53 percent at the expense of the private sector, severely hit, and this further obremeni their losses by 20 per cent of new bonds that were forced to take. Banks now face greater nationalization. So, the sector has in the past two decades has been released to funkcinira as private institutions and showed bias towards growth and foreign acquisitions comparable to other parts of the Greek economy, will now return to racet political parties, obsessed with their inability to economic discipline . How can this be an incentive for competitive economy, it is not clear. There are social and painful moments, of course. In the economy without social regime, the impact of five years follower of recession is taking its toll. Humanitarian organizations funded educational programs, became a hit with their bank deposits and are now paying for social kitchens that open on the streets of Athens. The settlements are tagged with building owners who desperately want to sell or issue, and appear to be more homeless. Almost half of young people in Greece are unemployed, and one of five of their older compatriots. Depression is everywhere present, despite the "assistance". If future Greek governments adhere to the rules of oporavvanje, by 2020 public debt will be repaid to what extent that was in 2008 when eruptiorashe. problem is how Greece was saved. Austerity measures are turning to the implementation of painful cuts in many areas. In the past two years, Greece made reducing its budget deficit, which is unprecedented not only in EU but also within the OSCE. But new conditions require dismissal of 10,000 public servants each year for the next ten years. This figure comes because of budget cuts. From my personal experience with involvement in Greek politics in the field of research policy, know that these austerity measures are implemented as a series of short trials in the long term planning. It is crucial that no idea, nor stimulus as the Greek system should be preoblikvan in order to follow a better path to development. Everyone is obsessed with balancing the budget, rather than selectivity or its design. The political effects at home rather to create a simple division of those who are for or against the austerity measures, rather than to run an essential debate on real structural reforms. With that change, EU and IMF - that make up the troika that should oversees the Greek recovery - enter the office of administration with mejntstrim position for on a weekly basis to check whether the objectives are met. To these officers the second or third level, given unprecedented authority. Circulate rumors about them that includes meetings with senior ministers, not careful of decorum and kindly behavior, and immediately begin a high tone: "Well so far achieved?" Young bureaucrats in Brussels lead meetings with ministers, riding roughshod over hurriedly giving attention to oral reports they are submitted, then I move aside and play with their Blackberries. In the name of "Europe" neokolonijalnata arrogance underlines fixation of the budget calculations. right help requires a serious commitment to remodeling of Greece. And this must be recognized, gradually changing the culture for the purpose of long-term support. But "salvation" of the Greek economy is managed with little obdzirnost to its domestic impacts, it can be a real aperkat. This inevitably opens the question not only for European capability, but for the will. Are twists intention not to save Greece, but to save Europe from itself? Athenians can reverse the proverb and head to their partners in Lisbon: "Beware the Evropjcite when you bring gifts".

[Onur]

Greece`s situation became absurd as it is can be. Greek PM said that Greece needs 3rd bailout !!! They took more than 100 billion at first, 130 billion more at second and now Papademos says they will need 3rd for more 100s of billions euros;

Read more;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/mar/30/greek-pm-papademos-third-bailout?newsfeed=true

I think they will never be able to payback this gigantic debt. Even the 3-4th generation of Greeks will be indebted to Germans for decades !!!

[Niko777]

Propaganda video from Hellenic American Leadership Council

It's time for the Greek Diaspora to stand up - YouTube

[George S.]

definitely a nation in crisis expecting 3rd bailouts .I don't there will be any.Greece is finished there is no future for it.

[Zarni]

I really feel said for the Greeks I really do

[George S.]

yeah they don't have the intestinal fortitude to admit to the macedonian attrocities & other stuf,i'm not sorry for them at all.