There’s some basic info on him on English Wikipedia but you can get a more detailed look on Macedonian Wikipedia. Not sure how well you can read Cyrillic but there are some examples of his works in the photo section below the article and then some references of his works in the “Nadvoreshni Vrski” section.
The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria
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I had to resurface this thread after stumbling onto some really interesting information recently.
Originally posted by Miliket View PostI'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective? They have a lot of proof compared to you guys... But all you "Macedonians" always respond to something that disprooves your "theories" with "IT'S FABRICATED!! WE'RE RIGHT!!" or something like that.
In the same vein as the above, I’d like to present another Bulgarian perspective from a guy that I recently became aware of. Those in the know will of course have heard of the name Petar Draganov but for me it came as a complete surprise to read about this guy. A Bessarabian Bulgarian, he was invited by the Bulgarian church to be a teacher at the Bulgarian Boy’s High School in Solun where he could spread the idea that the Macedonians are really Bulgarians (the majority of the students in this school were in fact Macedonian natives).
Instead, the opposite happened and, during his dealings with the students and travels around Macedonia, Draganov found an unrelated people in the Macedonians. Although Draganov initially believed the propaganda that was fed him, his own research on the subject allowed him to draw his own independent conclusions and he wasn’t afraid to voice them. He is credited with having written a number of scientific journals based on his years of research on the cultural, ethnic and linguistic independence of the Macedonians and Macedonian language.
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostI'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective? They have a lot of proof compared to you guys... But all you "Macedonians" always respond to something that disprooves your "theories" with "IT'S FABRICATED!! WE'RE RIGHT!!" or something like that.
What good is their perspective?
Just like selective listeners, they are selective viewers. They are afraid to open their eyes because the simplest of questions threatens their beliefs and just like other nationalist they will irrationally defend their nationalism.
How can I "look" from a Bulgarians perspective if they are blind?
Concerning the Bulgarians... Have you confused "perception" with "national consciousness"?
Why do you lie about comparing our history? If you really had, you wouldn't be here making an idiot of yourself.
In your first statement here, you make it obvious you are a hypocrite as you ask me to look from Bulgaria's perspective as if you had, at any time at all, looked from any other perspective.
Have you ever taken the time to look at both perspectives in a dispute before you open your big mouth? Then you make a statement regarding perception...
You haven't compared anything, haven't you?
What is it that you regard "theories", are you commenting on my history when you have made it obvious that you don't know what your talking about.
You have been very rude.Last edited by Redsun; 10-01-2016, 06:45 PM.
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostI'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective? They have a lot of proof compared to you guys... But all you "Macedonians" always respond to something that disprooves your "theories" with "IT'S FABRICATED!! WE'RE RIGHT!!" or something like that.
Are you serious?
What matters is our perspective, our perspective is that we are Macedonians and that's all that matters, we self determine and identify as Macedonians as is our right per The Universal Declaration Of Human Rights
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostDo you even have a proof that 2.400.000 people in Bulgaria descends from people that called themselves Macedonians?
And why would they migrate to Bulgaria and resettle there if they called themselves Macedonians? Why not to Skopje? And why would they then lose their Macedonian self-awareness?
Dimitar Blagoev in 1917 Bulgarian parliament:
“I am not a Bulgarian, I am a Macedonian, a Macedonian Slav.”
Kosta Shahov 1:
“But don’t you believe for one minute that the revolutionaries are working towards an autonomous Macedonia that would, in the end, be incorporated into Bulgaria. God Forbid! That will never be…All of us Macedonians, no matter where we are, no matter how educated we are, none will allow Macedonia to be incorporated into any other…Instead, we will work towards incorporating other provinces to her. We, the intelligentsia, were educated by the Russians, Romanians, Serbs and Bulgarians…However, none of us will become slaves to any of these and at any cost. Instead, they will immediately go to their own flock, as we too have done…We have a glorious element, and our people is resilient. And once Macedonia gains autonomy, then Bulgaria will sooner become Macedonian rather than Macedonia – Bulgarian. We have a real chance for that to occur…In Bulgaria, the highest positions are held by Macedonians…without question, when the time comes, today’s notables, Macedonian by nationality, will come over to us and Bulgaria will be Macedonian…We believe this will be so sooner or later…Macedonia will be a state (Republican) and she will look towards drawing other states in a union as cantons and, that way, she will be powerful country”.
Kosta Shahov 2:
“Our fatherland Macedonia has her own history about her past, where one can see her might, glory, as well as her political subjugation under the rule of the then mighty Turkish Empire…Today, every Macedonian, when he mentions the name Aleksandar Makedonski, says: We once had King Alexander the Great. With those words he reminds oneself of the brightest period and glory of the Macedonian State. Aleksandar Makedonski stands before every Macedonian as national pride.”
From a Bulgarian perspective, Atanas Shopov, discussing the Macedonians with the Salonika Valiya, Hasan-Fehmi Pasha in the beginning of 1904:
“How can they not cause trouble pasha effendi when the bigger part of the Macedonian population is in Bulgaria, the greater portion of the population of Sofia is Macedonian, a big portion of the officers in the army are Macedonians, a big part of the esteemed establishment are Macedonians and, the whole Macedonian intelligentsia from Macedonia is in Bulgaria. Even the crowds in the streets are Macedonian…We have even more reason than you to be aggrieved by the Macedonians because they have taken over our hold on power, they have taken our best positions and services, they have taken over our finances and cities, they have taken over our army and ministries, they have taken over our trade, they have taken over just about everything in Bulgaria. Save us from them in the name of God”
From Wikipedia (Macedonian entry):
About 430 (33%) from a total of 1,289 Officers were from Macedonia. 15,000 (43%) from 35,000 public servants originated from Macedonia, while 1,262 (37%) from 3,412 Exarchate priests were from Macedonia. “The Bulgarian by birth is in conflict with the Macedonian who is competing for his services”. Quote is referenced in Macedonian Wikipedia.
And, from perhaps the most important Bulgarian perspective, the 19th century Bulgarian geographer, ethnographer and politician, Vasil Kanchov:
“The local Bulgarians and Kucovlachs who live in the area of Macedonia call themselves Macedonians, and the surrounding nations also call them Macedonians. Turks and Albanians from Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians, but when asked where they are from, they respond: from Macedonia. Albanians, who also call their country Anautluk, and Greeks who live in the southern area of Macedonia, do not call themselves Macedonians, hence the borders in these areas according to the peoples’ perception are not clearly defined.”
As you can see even Vasil Kanchov, who was tasked with counting the Macedonians as Bulgarians for the purpose of statistical manipulation and propaganda, felt compelled to concede and declare that Macedonians considered themselves exactly that, Macedonians. There are no hyphenated self identifiers such as Slav-Macedonians, Bulgarian-Macedonians, Serb-Macedonians or Greek-Macedonians…Just Macedonians.
You and others like you believe the bullshit Bulgaria has been peddling for over century and a half but it’s a shame Kosta Shahov’s predictions of Bulgaria becoming a part of Macedonia (instead of the other way around) didn’t come true. Macedonians didn’t lose their self awareness. A century and a half of Bulgarian persecution against the Macedonian identity is what we have here and not a conscious decision to become Bulgarian patriots. Dig a little deeper, I’m sure you’ll find that your great (or great, great) grandfather was from Lerin, Kostur, Voden, Seres or Drama and considered himself a Macedonian when he moved to Bulgaria all those years ago.
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostDo you even have a proof that 2.400.000 people in Bulgaria descends from people that called themselves Macedonians?
And why would they migrate to Bulgaria and resettle there if they called themselves Macedonians? Why not to Skopje? And why would they then lose their Macedonian self-awareness?
Why would refugees from Macedonia (fleeing Turkish atrocities) resettle in Skopje, which is in Macedonia? That doesn't make sense. "Oh, a fire is burning down my house. I'll just go from the dining room into the kitchen to be safe from the fire."
Who said all of them lost their Macedonian self-awareness? Not all did.
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Originally posted by vicsinad View PostI've seen this on the web a lot lately. "Macedonians."
Perhaps "Bulgarians" is more accurate, being that about 1/3 of the "Bulgarian" population is descended from Macedonian refugees of the late 19th and early 20th century.
And why would they migrate to Bulgaria and resettle there if they called themselves Macedonians? Why not to Skopje? And why would they then lose their Macedonian self-awareness?
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
or if you place the Macedonian name or any of its derivative terms in quotation marks (i.e.; "Macedonians") again, you will be permanently banned. Don't mistake our courtesy for naivety.
Perhaps "Bulgarians" is more accurate, being that about 1/3 of the "Bulgarian" population is descended from Macedonian refugees of the late 19th and early 20th century.
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Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View PostWhere could I find that book?
Try Googling it...
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Originally posted by DraganOfStip View PostTry finding the book "The origins of the contemporary Bulgarians" by Plamen Cvetkov for more info.
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Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View PostHello, can someone clarify the exact origins of the Bulgarians please? I know Russia had a big hand in the creation of the Bulgarian nation in the late 19th century but that's about all I know.
The core people were the Bulgars (hence the name),a Turko-Mongoloid tribe that can be traced back all the way to Central Asia ( they are first mentioned in Chinese sources in the 2nd century b.c. as one of the peoples forming the federal empire Hsiung-Nu or the Huns), who then throughout the centuries migrated to the Balkans,absorbing many people on their way and eventually mixing with Slavs,Avars and indigenous peoples (mostly Thracians) that lived in the western balkans area.
Try finding the book "The origins of the contemporary Bulgarians" by Plamen Cvetkov for more info.
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostI'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective?
By the way, if you haven't yet read the rules, then read them. If you refer to Macedonians as anything but Macedonians, or if you place the Macedonian name or any of its derivative terms in quotation marks (i.e.; "Macedonians") again, you will be permanently banned. Don't mistake our courtesy for naivety.
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Originally posted by Miliket View PostI'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective? They have a lot of proof compared to you guys... But all you "Macedonians" always respond to something that disprooves your "theories" with "IT'S FABRICATED!! WE'RE RIGHT!!" or something like that.
Leave a comment:
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I'm not trying to be rude or anything but have you guys ever looked from Bulgaria's perspective? They have a lot of proof compared to you guys... But all you "Macedonians" always respond to something that disprooves your "theories" with "IT'S FABRICATED!! WE'RE RIGHT!!" or something like that.
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