The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[Droog]

Does anyone know from which census the above form is taken from? It must be from 1956, 1965, 1975, 1985 or 1992. Lets figure it out.

1975/85/92 because one of the dates on that document is 1971

[Daskalot]

Does anyone know from which census the above form is taken from? It must be from 1956, 1965, 1975, 1985 or 1992. Lets figure it out.

[Daskalot]

Here is an example from an earlier census.

[Phoenix]

thats crazy they are doing that today with total impunity.Where's the eu to stop this bullshit going on.

That's the beauty of EU membership, once you're in you can do whatever you like...just take a look at the 'greeks', they've been running riot for decades... the bulgars have a solid template to follow...

[George S.]

thats crazy they are doing that today with total impunity.Where's the eu to stop this bullshit going on.

[Daskalot]

It is simply pathetic. Bulgaria has a horrendous human rights record.

[Mastika]

OMO Ilinden Pirin report on the 2011 Bulgarian Census

Here is the English version of the report. http://www.omoilindenpirin.org/documents/report.pdf, and here it is in Bulgarian http://www.omoilindenpirin.org/documents/doklad.pdf.

The census officials were made to understand that self-determination as Macedonian or anything similar is not desirable and is anti- Bulgarian, anti-state, unscientific and inadmissible. A very real temptation to the census officers stood to behave in an undemocratic way and incorrectly, as self-initially abuse their position because of wrongly understood patriotism and duty and because of the feeling of impunity and self righteousness.

Before the census started in the homes of 7 February in the village of Musomishte the census officer Lidka Dimitrusheva visited Vasil Madzharov in order to count him. He had to argue a lot because she refused to fill the card in with the self determination ‗Macedonian‘. She told him that such a column was not included. After he told her to record him Macedonian in column ‗Others‘ she said that such a nation did not exist. He was forced to be counted over the Internet with number 0262002092.

On 9 February in the village of Mikrevo, municipality of Strumiani at the house of the Macedonian activist Kostadin Metodiev Petkov the census officer Sofia Panteva was conducting the census and had in her hand a pen and a pencil, however, she did not use the pencil this case. When she came to questions regarding the ethnic group and mother tongue she read them quickly and without waiting or asking Petkov and his wife Zorka Nusheva-Petkova how they would self-determine,she passed to the next questiont. Petkov had to stop her and return to those questions, only then she recorded him ‗Macedonian‘. The census officer has done so only with these two questions!

On 17 February about five o‘clock in the afternoon two census officers visited the family of Vasilka Tihanova Tsoneva on str. "Krajrechka" in the town of Sandanski. After having counted the husband who declared himself Bulgarian they past to Vasilka. She told them to record her ‗Macedonian‘ at which the census officers reacted harshly, asking how could this be if she was not married to a Macedonian, but to a Bulgarian. She was asked for her ID card. She said that she was going to give it to them and answer any questions after they recorded her ‗Macedonian‘. They were very angry at this statement, the lady told them that if they didn‘t record her ‗Macedonian‘, they were free to go, the younger of the two women-officers threatened her that they would come the next day with the police and would it charge her 120 BGN because she refused to be counted. After the case was published in the Macedonian media and widely on television "Channel 5" on the Bulgarian media it was reflected absolutely incorrectly. So on 21 February in the news agency Actualno.com a text was published commenting the messages in the Macedonian media. Not only the self-determination as ‗Macedonian‘ of Vasilka was enclosed in quotation marks, but she was also announced as Roma. This change in her origin has been carried out without any verification and without any concrete information — Tsoneva was never contacted....

There is a long list of discrepancies and irregular actions on the behalf of the census officials in Bulgaria, however despite this, the c. 3,000 Macedonians officially recorded in the last census in Pirin Macedonia may have increased in 2011.

[Big Bad Sven]

Hahah what a funny guy this “optimist” is, thanks for the laughs!! You really proved your point with “credible” Wikipedia pages written by Bulgarian slavs, very unbiased!

His “arguments” were all lies, misconceptions or misunderstanding of history, and “facts” that he dreamed up somewhere or heard from some drunken Bulgarian idiot once upon a time.

Its funny because most modern Bulgarian slavs think that they know so much about Macedonians as that they are the “same people”, but it would appear that they know absolutely nothing about the people and land, only what they have been brainwashed to believe in at their Z-grade schools

[Soldier of Macedon]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

That is a piece of cheap propaganda, and quite frankly, a blatant lie. It will not be tolerated here.

It says - South Slavic people....

The term 'Slavic' is a linguistic group, and, linguistically, most of the Balkans is populated by 'South Slavic people'. Is that news to you? Slavic literacy was spread from Macedonia; in its absence, the Bulgar state of khans would have continued to use Greek as the official language. Would that have been better for you?

even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians....

So what? It is the opinion of one man among a few million Macedonians across the world. I can cite several stupid one-liners coming out of Bulgaria also, but it's an old game that I have no interest in entertaining.

........and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid...

Not exactly. Ohrid became the capital of Samuel's empire, which arose in part from the ruins of the first Bulgar empire. It is therefore natural that some remnant elements from the old were adopted by the new. The name of 'Bulgaria' had little more significance to Macedonians in the Medieval period than the term 'Roman' had for them and others in the region centuries earlier.

......there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity...

That's another blatantly stupid lie, keep it up. There are several records citing the Macedonians, ethnically, linguistically and otherwise from the 19th century onwards, the era of nationalism in which focus on ethnicities became immense. If you are looking for records prior to the 19th century that refer to the Macedonians with an 'ethnic' prefix, then I would challenge you to find the same of any other people in the Balkans.

who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ?

You're confusing the facts. Samuel established his capital in Prespa and/or then Ohrid, so they were always in Macedonia and never "moved" to there. Here's a question for you that you will most certainly evade or respond with more babble: After Samuel absorbed the territory of the old Bulgar kingdom in Moesia, why didn't he move his capital to the old capital of the Bulgars? There was no genuine affinity, that's why.

And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ?

There are plenty, have a good read through the history section of this forum the next time you visit, as a visitor.

Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians....

Another blatant lie and a direct attack on the identity of the Macedonian people. You are an idiot. Consider yourself banned from this point onwards you vindictive liar.

or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.

People who gave illiterate Turkic horsemen and their servants in Moesia and Thrace the ability to write their own names in a Slavic language and an essentially Macedonian alphabet. Not bad for a people that were plucked out of thin air according to your fantastic theories.

And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism....

The census' carried out in Pirin have nothing to do with professors you bafoon, deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of Macedonians and people of Macedonian origin live in Bulgaria and have identified as Macedonians when you country wasn't in a permanent state of ultra-nationalistic morony.

I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia"

Haha, that's comical, a Bulgar talking about the Roma in Macedonia when his own country is full of them.

They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.

Garbage, but I suppose this is the type of research that your pathetic arguments rely on.

You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you...........

Yes, we were. Solun is in geographic Macedonia and the people that created the conditions for a common Slavonic literacy in the 9th century are the ancestors of my people, and not yours or those in Pliska or Trnovo. Your people have stolen plenty from the Macedonians, don't be naive in addition to being an idiot.

Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....

The rulers of the Bulgar state had assimilated into the local populace in Thrace and Moesia to a significant degree, but there was still a large segment of the aristocracy that resisted Boris' policy of negating the 'old ways' in favour of the new developments that originated from Macedonia. The students of the Macedonian brothers and saints Cyril and Methodius brought learning to Thrace and Moesia, as they were persecuted in Moravia and found shelter in Boris' expanding empire, an empire that was by that time 'Bulgar' in little more than its name. Brush up on your facts.

And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ?

The whole lot have behaved like a pack of vultures towards Macedonia at one point or another, individually and in unison. It isn't a matter of comparing who is better, but who is worse.

We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.

Macedonians sought refuge in several countries during Ottoman times, proximity alone was the determining factor as to why the new Bulgarian kingdom with its Germanic king were a popular destination. We used Bulgaria in much the same way that Bulgarians used Romania, a place for organising, planning, launching operations, etc.

[George S.]

optimist you have displayed total ignorance of real understanding of real history.You have let your bulgarian government propaganda shine through.Let me disprove the slav theory to you.
Macedonia is one of the few countries that has kept it's name & identity from prehistoric times.Bulgaria & the real bulgarians ceased to exist thousands of years ago replaced by the tartars or mongolian people.These people were illirate & adopted the macedonian alphabet & language.The slavic people went through macedonia & did not wipe out the macedonian people as some think falsely.they intermingled with the macedonian people.The slavic people did not cause the damage that people are saying.The slavic hordes went through bulgaria & greece,serbia,albania & turkey they did no more damage than in macedonia.Many races of people over the years went through macedonia it's a fact that they did no more damage to the identity of the macedonian people.The bulgarian government would have you beleive the propaganda of lies that's coming out of their mouths.Why so they can make a claim on macedonia & say it belongs to bulgaria & the macedonian people are bulgarian.You know what 4 countries thought that macedonia belongs to them & divided macedonia up one of them was bulgaria.Did you know when macedonia was divided a part to serbia do you know what the propaganda was a heavy duty brainwashing of the populace involving heavy duty bs about how they should not consider themselves as macedonians but as serbians & take glory in their slavic identity.This was total lies why because macedonia is no more slavic than the countries that divided her up.In other words it's all lies to lay claim on macedonian lands.It's all smear tactics to keep people from realising that they have a connection both in the name ,identity,customs etc with the ancient macedonians.Slav this slav that some if not most smear tactics has stuck even learnered people for a while kept saying that macedonians are slavs which is totally untrue.THey were influenced like any other balkan people like in the balkans.So false labelling has taken over & use of undesrved prefixes or suffixes.A good many people know what really is going on where there is a clearer picture.The slavs did not wipe out the macedonians in the sixth century they were simply assimilated,they were illiterate & they adopted the macedonian language.It's a proven fact they went to other countries as well & they should also be labelled slavic including greece & turkey.You mention a lot of other things & i'll lump it for you it's pure & utter propaganda & smear tactics aimed at telling the population of macedonia that they have no link with the ancients & they should take glory from them that they are not macedonians.This is pure & utter rubbish which is easily disproven.If you doubt me still then just go to the various countries that divided macedonia after 1913 & see the propaganda they spout you will see the differences that's macedonians don't have a right to their name,they don't exist,they are slav a lot of discrediting going on does that sound familiar.Even to the point of rewriting history books from their perspective.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Can someone change his username to "Wikipedia Knucklehead"?

[Daskalot]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29

It says - South Slavic people.... even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians.... and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid, there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity, who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ? And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ? Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians, or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.
And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism.... I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia" and that there are 30% Albanians ! They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.
You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you, the 2009 things that say there was oppression was never proven, if we did it the EU would've sanctioned us by now. Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....
And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ? We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.
And to Onur - fine that Petrich was Macedonian and Turkish... because it wasn't part of our country then.... see a map, its on the border with Greece, it was Turkish then.

You seem to think that 'Bulgar' thru out the centuries meant exactly the same thing as todays national and ethnic identity when it as of a fact had multiple meanings.

[Daskalot]

Does your History have any admittance worldwide ? I can say that Bulgaria created Rome, or that Bulgarians created China, if I'm a politician and make it a propaganda, what will you say to that ? There is no proof of that anywhere as much as in Macedonia about the Pirin region. Show me a statistic and proof and I'll believe it. About Alexander the Great - its like saying that because Athens was a different country from Greece, nowadays Athenians are not Greeks, they're descendants of Athena. You may have some history but in every worldwide document you are regarded as a nation since the 19th century. And the BIG QUESTION : How come Macedonia doesn't allow research on the History of Macedonians ? Is there any shocking truth ?

Here is some statistic proof:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2008/08/08/macedonians-recognized-in-the-bulgarian-census-of-1946/

So will you accept the truth?

[optimist]

Why does no one recognize your ethnicity then ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29

It says - South Slavic people.... even your own first president said you were Slavs not Ancient Macedonians.... and even Bulgaria's capital was in Ohrid, there are no records of there being a Macedonian ethnicity, who would be mad enough to move his capital to a place where foreign ethnicities live ? And how come there was no Macedonian uprisings, if not of people who say they are Bulgarians ? Macedonians are only the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks and 30% Albanians who live in Macedonia but are brainwashed by politicians, or the best part - people who started a different dialect from slavs somewhat in the 6-7th century.
And why so happy about the false scientific research done by nationalistic parties and professors who specialise in history of Bulgarian communism.... I would be more worried about the unoficial Macedonian census which says that "260 000 roma live in Macedonia" and that there are 30% Albanians ! They even posted a research saying that CIA wrote that there are 1 million Albanians in Macedonia.
You may be an ethnic group but you were never the slavic teachers, we stole nothing from you, the 2009 things that say there was oppression was never proven, if we did it the EU would've sanctioned us by now. Buglaria was always the Slavic teacher of all, we even gave home to the creators of the alphabet all Slavs use and asked them to research on other alphabets and scholar things as well....
And on top - Did Bulgaria destroy Macedonia during the Second Balkan war ? Did it do things like Greece or Serbia ? Why not hate Serbia for even making you join Yugoslavia and for its even harder attrocities in macedonia ? We even gave you home and were the first ones to admit your countries, for what ? Feed a dog to bark you after that.
And to Onur - fine that Petrich was Macedonian and Turkish... because it wasn't part of our country then.... see a map, its on the border with Greece, it was Turkish then.

[Frank]

Athens and Sofia will admit nothing because Macedonia and the Macedonians shape and shake Bulgarian and Greek Identity. Up until the 1950s the Bulgarian State recognised the Macedonian Minority and if we merely are ghosts why does Sofia refuse even under overwhelming right the Macedonian Political Party and in 2009 arrest 6,000 Macedonians in the Pirin region during it's election campaign.

Bulgarians I too find amusing they owe everything to us Macedonians that is why their academics are the most openly blatant liars and even manufacturer and doctor archaeological evidence. Whilst their state run media mock Macedonia with a brush work like Stalinist Communism.