Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Soldier of Macedon]

Most of it is fine.

Most of what? If one is to post rubbish like that then they should at least challenge it.

[Risto the Great]

Most of it is fine. But this last one is just a bunch of Griks in a bouzoukia having a moan.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Viewpoints of average Greek citizens. Melville–Jones is a "moderate" in comparison.

Carlin, why do you keep posting this anti-Macedonian trash like we aren't all aware what these animals think of us already? We get it, Melville-Jones and average Greek citizens hate us. I don't see what value there is by repeatedly giving them a platform here.

[Carlin]

Viewpoints of average Greek citizens. Melville–Jones is a "moderate" in comparison.

URL:

https://neoskosmos.com/en/128530/your-say-is-the-prespes-agreement-really-a-resolution-of-the-long-standing-name-dispute/

YOUR SAY: Is the Prespes Agreement really a resolution of the long-standing name dispute?

4 February 2019

Our readers responded to the plethora of articles and opinion pieces showing different aspects of the long-standing name dispute, including a plethora of opinions. We were inundated with messages on social media. Here’s a sample of what you, our readers, had to say:

FACEBOOK

Brady Kiesling, respectfully, I do not agree with your stance. Please read some more on the history of Macedonia, then you may realise that revisionist history and usurping another’s history is not moral nor “common sense”.

Stelios Shizas

I’m very interested in the comment “beneficial to both countries”. I can only see benefits to FYROM and cannot see how Greece has benefitted from this very unpopular agreement. Instead of looking at how this small country got named Macedonia in the first place we are lectured as to what a good decision this agreement is. Why weren’t they called South Serbia or West Albania? Macedonia is Greek and please don’t argue they are to be called “North”. The North will disappear very soon if it has not already done so. In the first sentence the professor talks of a statue of Alexander the Great being erected in Skopje… Why professor? What have Alexander and the Skopjians got in common? Nothing at all!! His article is so “sitting on the fence” that it’s laughable….but what do we expect from a Melville – Jones, go back to our Greece’s long and golden history professor and get your facts right. There is one Macedonia and it is in northern Greece where Alexander was born. FYROM is not Macedonia… It never was and it never will be!!!

Anthoula Paraskeva

You know I have never paid much attention to this. Throughout my youth I had friends that were Slav Macedonian. A couple if weeks ago I was flipping through channels on TV and channel 44. Macedonian program was scheduled, I stopped flipping because I thought it was Greek as they were depicting Greek sights from Thessaloniki e.g. Leuko Pirgo, the show wax not Greek, but Slav Macedonian. The fact that they were depicting Greek Macedonian landmarks anger me so much.

Sophie Ellis Manis

Read the articles that have been imposed on them. I don’t understand why people are still angry. We are getting all these concessions for the price of withdrawing a veto. As much as we deny it, their name since 1992 was the Republic of Macedonia. Now it will be called the Republic of North Macedonia. Why weren’t people angry when they were given the name FYRO Macedonia? What exactly has changed?

Steve Mitsos

Steve Mitsos the veto was our only remaining bargaining chip. Do you understand this? It has now been thrown away. Their nationality, language, and identity is now officially Macedonian (even in Greece) and mine is not. The fact they reluctantly acknowledge it as ‘different to ancient greek’ means jack to me. The world will forever be confused into thinking they are the only Macedonians, solely because we have given up the fight.
And if you think we weren’t angry with the INTERIM name of FYROM, then I believe you have not seen the many rallies and protests organised throughout the past 30 years. Again, this problem should’ve been solved back in 1992 with a phone call to Milosevic.

Adam Edessa
We are not happy because officially the Greek government and everyone else will recognise their nationality and language as Macedonian which was never the case before!

Stavros Karakoutas

Steve Mitsos, what has changed is the Greek Government has signed an agreement that says: Country: Nth Macedonia; Language: Macedonian; Ethnicity: Macedonian. There never was a Macedonian language or country. Their second language is Albanian .It doesn’t matter how many countries recognise them as FYROM . Greece gave them what they where wanting for years our recognition We have sold out our identity and our history. Macedonia is Greece , not a country that consists of 40 per cent Albanians, 30 per cent Bulgarian, 20 per cent Serbs and 10 per cent gypsies and Turks. This will open up a can of worms with regards to Greek businesses, Μακεδονικός Χαλβάς etc and now some of them want to claim compensation against Greece and it’s only going to get worse what’s next? Θράκη, Ήπειρος, Δωδεκανήσα. I am from Thessaloniki, so now I am Greek from the region of South Macedonia.

Ioannis Mylonas

Steve Mitsos okay so forget 3000 years of Μακεδονία and Greek history and legacy of the Hellenistic world after Alexander’s empire.
Change your name Steve, let your neighbour use your name.
Forget the blood that was spilt during the Balkan wars to free Μακεδονία from the Komitadji Bulgarians and Ottomans. Why do they claim Μακεδονία when 100 years ago that region was called Vardaska? The whole pseudo state naming of Macedonia in former Yugoslav territory had one objective… to annex our Μακεδονία and gain access to the Aegean.
Slavs that erect Greek warrior statues in their capital city, use Greek symbols Star or Vergina, claim to be descendants of Ancient Μακεδονη.
Already they are talking about a Southern Macedonia province with ‘ethnic” Macedonians which is complete crap!! The Slavic people that reside in Μακεδονία today in places pike Φλορινα or Καστοριά claim this crap! Yet they are Slavs, left there by the Greek army or government and should have been given their marching orders into Yugoslavia like most of them at the time.
Why can’t they accept there Slavic roots and call themselves something else?

Stavros Symbonis

Neos Kosmos welcomes robust dialogue on matters concerning the expats living in Greece and the Greek diaspora from around the world. The views and opinions expressed in letters to the editor or the opinion section of our website and newspaper are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official position of the publisher. Send your opinions to [email protected]

[Carlin]

Firms with Macedonia-related names need to clinch rights

URL:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/237308/article/ekathimerini/business/firms-with-macedonia-related-names-need-to-clinch-rights

The name “Macedonia” features in various forms in the brands of 182 Greek businesses across all sectors – with 39 in the food and agricultural sector – while over 4,000 businesses use the term to describe one or more of their products. The ratification of the Prespes deal between Athens and Skopje has raised questions about what the future hold for them.

Of foremost concern is the fact that entrepreneurs in Macedonia will have the right to use this name too, calling for a constructive dialogue on the regulations that will be required and agreed.

The lack of clarity concerning the key details of this issue is prompting experts advise Greek businesses to secure the rights to their logos and names, according to existing European and international procedures. The commercial chambers in northern Greece have already started taking action, offering legal advice and assistance.

The deal, however, will not affect products with a protected Designated of Origin (POP) or Geographical Indicator (PGE), as their names cannot be disputed since they have been determined via the provisions, terms and decisions of the European Union.

The Prespes agreement includes a key provision on commercial names. Article 1, Paragraph 3 says that as far as trademarks and brand names are concerned, the two sides “agree to support and encourage their business communities to institutionalize a structured and in good faith dialogue, in the context of which [they] will seek and reach mutually acceptable solutions on the issues deriving from the commercial names, trademarks, the brand names and all relevant matters at bilateral and international level.”

The agreement also provides for the creation of an international team of experts within the year that will consist of representatives of both states and will have three years, until 2022, to complete its work. This provision possibly means that many name and trademark issues will be addressed from the start. Even if this is the case, legal experts told Kathimerini businesses which have secured air-tight protection for their trademarks and commercial names will be in a much better position, regardless of the final decisions of the international team of experts.

[Carlin]

Macedonians and Macchiato, by Mark Steyn
Steyn on the Oakley Show
January 31, 2019

URL:

https://www.steynonline.com/9164/macedonians-and-macchiato

Go to the link and click play - start listening at minute 3:45 (it's basically from 3:45 until 4:40):

"In order to be able to join the European Union Macedonia had to rename itself as blueberry muffin with side order of green cheese"


URL:

https://www.steynonline.com/8998/good-news-for-the-macedonian-economy

[Soldier of Macedon]

This has a million ways it can fail. So we shouldn't give up hope just yet.

Despite the little optimism left, I want to agree. It is also why I think this so-called "agreement" could bring instability to the region, which, contrary to its apparent intention, is exactly what Macedonia needs in some form to turn the course away from the impending disaster.

[Solun]

A potentially destabilizing factor is the "Joint Inter-Disciplinary Committee of Experts on historic, archaeological and educational matters". I'm expecting that, depending on how badly the Greek government is doing in the polls, they will be asking the Macedonian side to make further concessions. Probably, as a means to divert the masses away from incompetence/corruption/scandals..

I don't see how this could be a problem. Zaev will be happy to agree to anything

[Gocka]

On one hand you have the greeks who believe that they have an ironclad agreement and expect it to be followed to the letter...on the other hand you have the Macedonians who are to be socially reengineered by said agreement into a totally different organism and that this will miraculously materialise 7 days after the greek parliament ratifies Macedonia's NATO membership process...

What could possibly go wrong............................................. ................?

Exactly.

Lets put aside the resentment we feel for a second and look at this rationally.

This agreement requires the whole country to change within a short period of time. Think about how much turmoil even a handful of individuals can cause. A single professor refusing to teach the new curriculum, a single business refusing to change its packaging or labels, a single public officials refusing to refer to the country by its new name. What about even individual small business owners and citizens who fly the old flag or use our rightful name.

What is the government of NMK going to do to enforce these changes domestically? Throw people in jail? Even people who are for a name change probably can't stomach their friends and family being beaten or thrown in prison for calling themselves Macedonians.

Yugoslavia had 50+ to make everyone Yugoslavs and they never convinced a majority of it. One generation after its demise and "Yugoslavians" are gone as an ethnic group. Even if this new endeavor is to succeed, it will take a generation or two of none stop brainwashing to make it happen.

What happens if administrations change? This has a million ways it can fail. So we shouldn't give up hope just yet.

This is so easy to fight against because it is so overt and unavoidable. For once we have s battle that even a handful of people can fight and win. Like I said before this is the honeymoon phase. Both parties are willing to let a lot of things go for now. What happens in a year or two?

The breakdown point is going to be when the NMK government is faced with its first few cases of dissent. This is agreement is so absurd that it is unenforceable other than through barbaric means.

Either the NMK government cracks down hard or the Greek government deems the agreement broken. Either way it all breaks down.

To all those Macedonians who might be reading along, don't give up, this is easy to fix. Just refuse to play along and it will all collapse.

[YuriB]

A potentially destabilizing factor is the "Joint Inter-Disciplinary Committee of Experts on historic, archaeological and educational matters". I'm expecting that, depending on how badly the Greek government is doing in the polls, they will be asking the Macedonian side to make further concessions. Probably, as a means to divert the masses away from incompetence/corruption/scandals..

[Risto the Great]

if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.

I know him.

[Vangelovski]

So many idiot politicians and journalists from the West keep suggesting that this will bring stability to the Balkans, when it may have the opposite effect, if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.

Like the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement before it brought stability..

[Soldier of Macedon]

So many idiot politicians and journalists from the West keep suggesting that this will bring stability to the Balkans, when it may have the opposite effect, if there are enough people in Macedonia whose integrity will be slapped into action when this demeaning set of circumstances comes to a full realisation.

[Phoenix]

...The only question for me is what happens when it all unravels.

On one hand you have the greeks who believe that they have an ironclad agreement and expect it to be followed to the letter...on the other hand you have the Macedonians who are to be socially reengineered by said agreement into a totally different organism and that this will miraculously materialise 7 days after the greek parliament ratifies Macedonia's NATO membership process...

What could possibly go wrong............................................. ................?

[Gocka]

I don't think Zaev is naive or ignorant about what the prespa agreement demands of him and Macedonia. I think a a good portion of the Macedonian people are naive and ignorant. Because of that he has to play a balancing act for as long as he can. He can't do it forever. At some point he will have to stop saying Macedonia and people will notice.

I actually have hope. This whole circus doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell of being successfully implemented and maintained. It's too broad and overreaching. Even our pathetic lot will eventually realize that. Nothing like this has ever been attempted, do we really believe Macedonians and Greeks of all people can accomplish this?

This is the honeymoon period, where both parties keep patting themselves on the back. When the reality of it all sets in they will be back to square one in no time.

The only question for me is what happens when it all unravels.