Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Ljubanec]

I think it is a good turn out and a success for Macedonia. My issue is and was the fact that the title of the video has Macedonia-Skopje in the title. This is not an issue of grammar, ladies and gentlemen. Maybe a it is a typo, but I seriously doubt it.


This rally was in Skopje, Macedonia. Not Macedonia-Skopje.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

actually Bigmak, 2 years ago, I had no opinion on UMD, and am sure others are the same. It was their blatantly stating having a prefix democratic republic Macedonia that irked me. That and not answering my questions, on why they support name negotitiations, that was at the same meeting the you tube link RTG has posted I was present. And the support for the IA and FA , and the rest , I really did not want to listen to, I had just come out of surgery, and walked out. My mind was made up
Then Gruevski comes out in leaked documents stating democratic republic skopje to Grks????? WTF, so you see, it does not take an imbecile to work out they are working in the agendas and interests of ROM, and not the diaspora, so that does not make me a flip flopper, or traitor as you have called Alex, I think our admin may have initially supported the UMD, its when the TRUTH comes out, as it does with anything that people start laying accusations against others, (especially Australian Macedonians) because we have no hidden agenda for a seat in congress, we want to retain our identity.

Julie, sadly many here are unable to comprehend many of the posts and take on a famous UMD trait of guessing or using lies. You, and I both understand that in most cases Macedonians are to blame not Athens or organizations falsely claiming to be "united" or a "voice" for all.

Keeping it real!

[Pelister]

Both TMOROs are in coalition with DPMNE!

The only way out of this mess is if a public figure comes along and starts a new political party, or enters a contest making it CLEAR to the Macedonian people that he will end the negotiations immediately. Who ever does that will end up being a popular leader, and hero among hundreds of thousands of Macedonians.

[Pelister]

Mk, The point I have been trying to make is that you can blame Greece for trying to block us at the U.N, but legal experts in this field tell us we are not in fact blocked at all. [Professor Janev has been trying to get Gruevski to start the process of our admission to the U.N for years now, but Gruevski refuses to do it]. Think about what Gruevski is doing. Rather than keep this an issue "inside" or within the U.N institution, the Gruevski government has gone and turned the discussion of our political existence and identity, into a theatre side show and a centre piece of their foreign policy, for the whole world (as though they really care). This is one individual who does not have the authority to be messing around with name behind closed doors. I mean the people are against it, but too afraid to do anything about it. People do not understand that Gruevski is responsible for turning what should have been an issue to be solved, through the appropriate legal channels inside the U.N - to a freakish and reckless show for all - undermining everything we are along the way. We can blame the Greeks, but ultimately the buck stops with the Macedonians. In that sense, Gruevski is the one meddling with our identity. If we can't stop Gruevski from decieving the Macedonian people about our position at the United nations, who can we stop?

[Risto the Great]

The recent DPmNE youtube video with ?? 70,000 people cheering for a European Macedonia is evidence enough that Gruevski is preaching to the the converted. He is giving them exactly what they want. And the "smart people" tell us they know what they want.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

but legal experts in this field tell us we are not in fact blocked at all.

Pavle, those persons are nowhere near being experts. If, Macedonia can show "intent" Athens is guilty. Did, they say they would do it aka premeditated? Toughest evidence to overcome? Video, where defendant is speaking .. Kosta & Dora made threats numerous times and very easy to locate.

[makalek]

The only way out of this mess is if a public figure comes along and starts a new political party, or enters a contest making it CLEAR to the Macedonian people that he will end the negotiations immediately. Who ever does that will end up being a popular leader, and hero among hundreds of thousands of Macedonians.

Why has no one done that up to this point? Surely any politician would want to have the most support among the people so why hasn't a politician done that? I see Crvenkovski is very desperate to return to power now so why hasn't he said that he will end negotiations in order to defeat Gruevski? Or Ljube Boskoski? He is running his own party now with the slogan "freedom or death" and was considered a hero at one point during the conflict in 2001. They called him Brat Ljube.

The simple answer is that certain politician will have no support among the people. That would mean saying goodbye to NATO and the EU which is something that brings together the citizens of Macedonia. Like I said in my earlier post, whether people in Macedonia are rich or poor, young or old, Macedonian, Albanian, or any other nationality, they all agree that Macedonia MUST become a member of NATO and the EU. Every single party has made the economy the #1 priority in their program which includes entering NATO and the EU. What do they know that some us might not know?

[Vangelovski]

Why has no one done that up to this point? Surely any politician would want to have the most support among the people so why hasn't a politician done that? I see Crvenkovski is very desperate to return to power now so why hasn't he said that he will end negotiations in order to defeat Gruevski? Or Ljube Boskoski? He is running his own party now with the slogan "freedom or death" and was considered a hero at one point during the conflict in 2001. They called him Brat Ljube.

The simple answer is that certain politician will have no support among the people. That would mean saying goodbye to NATO and the EU which is something that brings together the citizens of Macedonia. Like I said in my earlier post, whether people in Macedonia are rich or poor, young or old, Macedonian, Albanian, or any other nationality, they all agree that Macedonia MUST become a member of NATO and the EU. Every single party has made the economy the #1 priority in their program which includes entering NATO and the EU. What do they know that some us might not know?

Its more about what they think they know. The Macedonian public is generally uninformed about NATO and the EU, and their politicians have proven to be nothing more than vassal careerists.

Like I said in the other thread, you are starting to sound a lot like a former poster by the name of fyrOM.

[makalek]

I agree that some citizens are easily manipulated and think that NATO and EU membership will solve everything but there are obvious benefits. NATO ensures the safety of their members which can make foreign investors feel safer about investing in a foreign country while the EU is the biggest economy in the world and EU membership will open up many more new markets. You still need to have good polities but there is no question that NATO and EU membership can help a country grow their economy significantly. Just look at how ahead Slovenia is compared to us? We are similar in size but they had smarter politicians in the past and they became members of NATO and the EU which has made their economy and standard of living much higher than that of Macedonia.

[julie]

Slovenia is not known by any other name.....

[vicsinad]

I agree that some citizens are easily manipulated and think that NATO and EU membership will solve everything but there are obvious benefits. NATO ensures the safety of their members which can make foreign investors feel safer about investing in a foreign country while the EU is the biggest economy in the world and EU membership will open up many more new markets. You still need to have good polities but there is no question that NATO and EU membership can help a country grow their economy significantly. Just look at how ahead Slovenia is compared to us? We are similar in size but they had smarter politicians in the past and they became members of NATO and the EU which has made their economy and standard of living much higher than that of Macedonia.

Slovenia is ahead economically not because of how smart their politicians were. There were several factors throughout the existence of Yugoslavia that resulted in Slovenia's economic wealth in the region during and post-Yugoslavia. Including that the geo-politics was much different in Slovenia than in Macedonia.

[makalek]

Slovenia is not known by any other name.....

Julie, that is true but Slovenia didn’t have any roadblocks. We would already be a member of both organizations if it wasn’t for Greece. Macedonia has met the criteria for NATO membership (we even have more troops in Afghanistan than Greece) and the European Commission gave us a positive recommendation for two consecutive years that we are ready to being negotiations with the European Union but Greece continues to block us. They are the only country that is against our membership in NATO and the EU for ridiculous reasons but unfortunately those organizations rule by consensus which means every country has to agree for a new member to join. They are using that power to dictate and blackmail Macedonia by having us accept what they propose but we will not give in and I’m optimistic that many countries will soon get tired of Greece’s games.

[Jankovska]

The EU is the biggest mistake Macedonia can make but I am glad to se that people are starting to see that. For once Bulgaria has been useful to us. Now that BG is in the EU everything is so expensive, the poor are more poor than ever and worse they have to follow some EU laws. In Kriva Palanka people are changing their mind about EU because they will have to stop so pechenje rakija, hm I dont think that will go down very well
Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunel, who knows

[Volk]

The EU will fall in the next 5 years...

Its time for people in Macedonia to wake up and realize that its up to us to build the nation, not some high credit hand outs that will ultimately indebted the country...

[Vangelovski]

The EU will fall in the next 5 years...

Its time for people in Macedonia to wake up and realize that its up to us to build the nation, not some high credit hand outs that will ultimately indebted the country...

Well said.